Photos from iPhone 6

Yes.

There is also handling limit, speed limit, ergonomics limit, zoom limit, low light and macro capabilities limit, and many more. Once it has no dial, it is toy camera. Once it is thinner than 1/2" it is toy camera. Deal with it :-D

crashpc said:

Yes.

There is also handling limit, speed limit, ergonomics limit, zoom limit, low light and macro capabilities limit, and many more. Once it has no dial, it is toy camera. Once it is thinner than 1/2" it is toy camera. Deal with it :-D

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You list features, not the limit. You can notice I never said smartphone cams have the same IQ as FF cams, I ask where the limit go. For instance, "ergonomics": does a handle define a real camera? Are compact cameras not real cameras? etc.

Sure a beefy FF is more powerfull, does that mean a less powerfull camera is a toy and not a camera? Does the existence of medium format make FF a toy? Do FF cams make m43 not real?

Do a smartphone camera not have "speed, ergonomics, zoom (are primes toys?) low light and macro capabilities"? It surely does, albeit with various degrees, as with any other camera, hence reviews and this forum.

Or do "DSLR"s not have these limits?

I see you define the realness of a camera by it's thickness, interesting if I dare say.

Seccotine said:

crashpc said:

Yes.

There is also handling limit, speed limit, ergonomics limit, zoom limit, low light and macro capabilities limit, and many more. Once it has no dial, it is toy camera. Once it is thinner than 1/2" it is toy camera. Deal with it :-D

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You list features, not the limit.

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What feature is that you can´t handle your camera? Huh...

Seccotine said:

You can notice I never said smartphone cams have the same IQ as FF cams, I ask where the limit go.

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It´s individual, and most people capable of evaluating camera would propably agree that phone camera should be marked as toy camera.

Seccotine said:

For instance, "ergonomics": does a handle define a real camera?

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Yes, with other "features" as you say, it does.

Seccotine said:

Are compact cameras not real cameras? etc.

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Some are, some are not. Especially when vital settings are burried in menus, instead of available on one tap or drag (touchscreen), or available with dedicated hw controls.

Seccotine said:

Sure a beefy FF is more powerfull, does that mean a less powerfull camera is a toy and not a camera?

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No. Toy camera becomes toy camera when you can´t do essential things with comfort and speed.

Look:

How do you turn on your camera on phone? What, and how long does it take?

What is the first shot from time you touch the phone with your hand?

how comfortable is to shoot with one hand?

How does it handle with telephoto lens?

How about lens cover and lens hood?

How many shots can it take before it´s low on battery, when you wait for your shot?

How powerfull is the flash?

What does it take to change ISO speed?

Seccotine said:

Does the existence of medium format make FF a toy?

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For certain usage, yes it does. FF is bad joke and toy compared to Hubble.....

If you want to shoot night photo, sports, BIF, macro, large product photography and many more, and you use iPhone for that, you use TOY.

If you want to remember what does the product look like for oncoming search and purchase, iPhone is awesome tool.

So it's a gradual thing? Cameras get less real and more toy with size.

Aren't you confusing "real" and "powerful", and "toy" with "limited"?

Seccotine said:

So it's a gradual thing? Cameras get less real and more toy with size.

Aren't you confusing "real" and "powerful"?

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Nope. You get it wrong. Right tool for right job.

Hubble is interesting toy for birding photography. FF with tele lens is actual pro tool. It´s not only the size and static parameters.

Same arguments time and time again. One can have both an iPhone / phone camera and a DSLR. They can coexist. The iPhone is as much a toy as a DSLR, as neither are essential for living (so I'm clear, not make a living, one doesn't need a camera like food/ shelter). A camera is a tool, some people need a jack hammer others are happy with a screwdriver. The majority of people like the iPhone more than a "real" camera.

As to ergonomics/use/flexibility the majority of people not in DP use the expensive DSLR with a kit lens and on fully automated mode. So an iPhone is actually easier to use.

Aur said:

The thing I find interesting about the iPhone and phones in general, is that it has an equivalent focal length of 29mm of a full frame. Yet the camera has like 0 distortion (tiny tiny bit of pincushion).

It can do certain things that a DSLR can't, take super wide angle pictures with 0 visible distortion, because of it's tiny flange distance.

While you can fix barrel distortion somewhat in camera or in post on DSLR, softness will start to creep in, because it's using interpollation to fill in pixels.

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How's the distortion at 129mm ?

How about this for macro? iPhone 5



This is one of flickr's top 25 mobile photos of the year http://blog.flickr.net/en/2015/02/26/top-25-mobile-photos-flickr-2014/



I think you'll find there is actually a large macro movement with phones partially due to the massive depth of field I believe.

Lightpath48 said:

It's Apple as Cult. And part of me really likes it! But not enough to separate me from my cash.

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They are impressive but after watching a documentary on Apple workers in China having
to work 14 hour days and falling asleep at work I think I'm over the cult.

When they do their `training' test everyone chants the answers out loud ...

crashpc said:

Seccotine said:

So it's a gradual thing? Cameras get less real and more toy with size.

Aren't you confusing "real" and "powerful"?

Click to expand...

Nope. You get it wrong. Right tool for right job.

Hubble is interesting toy for birding photography. FF with tele lens is actual pro tool. It´s not only the size and static parameters.

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We can agree on "the right tool for the right job" and that there is a gradient between large and small cameras.

pgb said:

Lightpath48 said:

It's Apple as Cult. And part of me really likes it! But not enough to separate me from my cash.

Click to expand...

They are impressive but after watching a documentary on Apple workers in China having
to work 14 hour days and falling asleep at work I think I'm over the cult.

When they do their `training' test everyone chants the answers out loud ..

Click to expand...

While I wish for better working conditions for the Chinese (which would bring us back jobs at the same time) I doubt any electronics or camera company manufacture in any better conditions than Apple. It's mostly the same factories, some having less media exposure than Foxconn.

Seccotine said:

crashpc said:

Seccotine said:

So it's a gradual thing? Cameras get less real and more toy with size.

Aren't you confusing "real" and "powerful"?

Click to expand...

Nope. You get it wrong. Right tool for right job.

Hubble is interesting toy for birding photography. FF with tele lens is actual pro tool. It´s not only the size and static parameters.

Click to expand...

We can agree on "the right tool for the right job" and that there is a gradient between large and small cameras.

pgb said:

Lightpath48 said:

It's Apple as Cult. And part of me really likes it! But not enough to separate me from my cash.

Click to expand...

They are impressive but after watching a documentary on Apple workers in China having
to work 14 hour days and falling asleep at work I think I'm over the cult.

When they do their `training' test everyone chants the answers out loud ..

Click to expand...

While I wish for better working conditions for the Chinese (which would bring us back jobs at the same time) I doubt any electronics or camera company manufacture in any better conditions than Apple. It's mostly the same factories, some having less media exposure than Foxconn

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That's probably true but considering the wealth of Apple they could afford to trail blaze. Even if iphones cost $25 more sales would be the same. Imagine if Samsung advertised `our workers have the option of working overtime and time to eat', that would upset the corporate fortunes.

Whatever happened to `buy American' which made the US great.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/03/02/4187424.htm

pgb said:

That's probably true but considering the wealth of Apple they could afford to trail blaze. Even if iphones cost $25 more sales would be the same. Imagine if Samsung advertised `our workers have the option of working overtime and time to eat', that would upset the corporate fortunes.

Whatever happened to `buy American' which made the US great.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/03/02/4187424.htm

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Agreed on both. (European version)

Seccotine said:

More Keepers said:

Paul Janders said:

Apple updated their web site Sunday with a gallery of photos taken with the iPhone 6. Amazing what can be done with a smart phone camera. It's worth spending some time to take a look at these:

http://www.apple.com/iphone/world-gallery/

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Yet another iphone troller! iphones belong in the connect toy forum. Real camera topics belong here.

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Speaking of which, I don't see where the limit between "real" and "toy" camera go (to me there is none) but some of you guys seem to find it very important. Anyone care to define why a smartphone camera isn't a "real" camera? Is there a size limit?

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The most popular use of iphones is to play games and send messages on social media such Facebook updates, twitter and the like. Sometimes these social media updates include poorly executed pictures. The remainder of the time it's for text messages and sometimes phone calls. Occasionally iphones are used to conduct business. If it's used like a toy most of the time the best description of a smart phone is a toy camera. I sometimes use an iphone as a handy recording device, but not as a camera.

What is the primary function of your compact, mirror-less or DSLR camera? For most people it's to take pictures. Taking pictures is the primary function of a real camera. A real camera can take pictures in varying conditions, not just with ideal lighting and static compositions.

@More Keepers

The presence of GSM and other circuits doesn't negate the small camera in there AFAIC.

You might not like its IQ, that's an other story. Anyhow, to each his own, my priority is photography, not gear, I guess I'm in the wrong forum.

pgb said:

Aur said:

The thing I find interesting about the iPhone and phones in general, is that it has an equivalent focal length of 29mm of a full frame. Yet the camera has like 0 distortion (tiny tiny bit of pincushion).

It can do certain things that a DSLR can't, take super wide angle pictures with 0 visible distortion, because of it's tiny flange distance.

While you can fix barrel distortion somewhat in camera or in post on DSLR, softness will start to creep in, because it's using interpollation to fill in pixels.

Click to expand...

How's the distortion at 129mm ?

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well we don't know since the iPhone has a fixed focal length

I do think you have a point that at 129mm you would have the reverse problem, since you would need more glass to fill the sensor, and you could get horrible distortion

there is a perfect focal length for every sensor + flange distance, we can clearly see that with full frame DSLR it is related to the diagonal of the sensor, at around 50-85mm you get barely any distortion, go up or down in focal length, and you get distortion

that's why ppl buying crop sensors often make a mistake buying them if they're interested in wide angles, it's quite hard to find shallow focal length lenses and also avoiding distortion

Aur said:

The thing I find interesting about the iPhone and phones in general, is that it has an equivalent focal length of 29mm of a full frame. Yet the camera has like 0 distortion (tiny tiny bit of pincushion).

It can do certain things that a DSLR can't, take super wide angle pictures with 0 visible distortion, because of it's tiny flange distance.

Click to expand...

30mm isn't super wide.

Aur said:

While you can fix barrel distortion somewhat in camera or in post on DSLR, softness will start to creep in, because it's using interpollation to fill in pixels.

Click to expand...

Oh and softness doesn't creep in with the massive NR innately present in phone shots?

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

Seccotine said:

@More Keepers

The presence of GSM and other circuits doesn't negate the small camera in there AFAIC.

You might not like its IQ, that's an other story. Anyhow, to each his own, my priority is photography, not gear, I guess I'm in the wrong forum.

Click to expand...

Actually, DPReviw is about camera gear used for photography. This isn't the best photography critique website. This web site is about gear and how to use it.

An iphone just isn't the tool for you or anyone else to learn photography. It's lifelong learning and development. Using such a limited toy just won't cut it as a vehicle to learn how to use a camera.

Paul Janders said:

It's my understanding that all of the photos have been taken by typical people. I don't think any of the photos in Apple's gallery have been taken by pros.

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But these are not typical photos from those typical people. I can take a hundred shots with my DSLR, and maybe one will be outstanding. They just found the best one in a million for many different people and show them all at once. It's still not typical of what the average person can expect on a regular bases. A real camera will be more consistent.

HatWearingFool said:

How about this for macro? iPhone 5

This is one of flickr's top 25 mobile photos of the year http://blog.flickr.net/en/2015/02/26/top-25-mobile-photos-flickr-2014/

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Too bad it's the size of an actual snowflake on my 4k screen....

HatWearingFool said:

I think you'll find there is actually a large macro movement with phones partially due to the massive depth of field I believe.

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A phone that is stuck at F2.5 can be matched by stopping down a MFT or 1" camera. A FF would be able to if the lenses allowed the leeway. Still, that wide DOF isn't unique to just phones.

--
"People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." - Isaac Asimov

More Keepers said:

Seccotine said:

@More Keepers

The presence of GSM and other circuits doesn't negate the small camera in there AFAIC.

You might not like its IQ, that's an other story. Anyhow, to each his own, my priority is photography, not gear, I guess I'm in the wrong forum.

Click to expand...

Actually, DPReviw is about camera gear used for photography. This isn't the best photography critique website. This web site is about gear and how to use it.

Too bad, you won't be much of a photographer using an iphone.

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IMO it makes you more of a photographer to take an interesting picture with an iPhone rather than a technically perfect dullness with a ILC, which is what most gear strokers do.