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1Ds focus issues -- truth, or lies?

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DavidP #28649 said:
Hopefully Canon knows it at this point, but sometimes ya gotta
wonder if they're still trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...
Another empty and unfounded "theory" - stop the bashing and get a life;

how many more times do you need to hear this? Which part of that message is so difficult to understand?
 
Given the number of posts that you have contributed to this topic, it is quite reasonable for one to assume you are an advocate of the focus issues inherent in Canon cameras. What I mean is, you do not have a 10D and a 1Ds, yet you feel compelled to contribute to those threads. I am not saying that you should not, that is your choice, just as it is my choice to read certain slants into your objective for posting.

BTW, what Clinton said was he "did not have sexual relations with ...". Presumably one can have sex (inactive or active participant) without having sexual relations (active only).
DavidP said:
You can only go so far as to how somebody might interpret
something. After all, Clinton "didn't have sex with that woman,
Ms. Lewinski". ;)
Click to expand...
 
That when one spend $2000 - $ 3000 (camera & lenses), one doesn't want to start doing the testing that CANON should have done, AND possibly sending the camera to the dealer as soon as it arrives?

Here's some more reading

Regarding "fretting" as word you seem to like a lot: I am not, are you? I am stating facts posted here by other users, and stating my opinion about it.

Here's another reference for you to read:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=5527426

Geir Ove
Rune Moberg said:
Geir Ove said:
Some peiple here have had 3 to 4 samples before getting a good one.

Is this an "easy procedure" as you describe it? Give me a break.
Click to expand...
Here, where you and I live -- it is simple! As long as you're aware
there can be a problem (which you are) and test it within the first
14 days (which I presume you'll do).

As I've been trying to tell you, talking, ranting and fretting
about it here is not going to solve anything for you.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
Click to expand...
 
Read here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=5530119

Quote:

"I believe that all 10Ds are defective, not just a small percentage as is commonly accepted. Some people are not complaining because they primarily use the camera with a combination of subject matter and lens choices which mask the autofocusing problem."

Geir Ove
Rune Moberg said:
Geir Ove said:
Some peiple here have had 3 to 4 samples before getting a good one.

Is this an "easy procedure" as you describe it? Give me a break.
Click to expand...
Here, where you and I live -- it is simple! As long as you're aware
there can be a problem (which you are) and test it within the first
14 days (which I presume you'll do).

As I've been trying to tell you, talking, ranting and fretting
about it here is not going to solve anything for you.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
Click to expand...
 
Zero said:
Given the number of posts that you have contributed to this topic,
it is quite reasonable for one to assume you are an advocate of the
focus issues inherent in Canon cameras. What I mean is, you do not
have a 10D and a 1Ds, yet you feel compelled to contribute to those
threads. I am not saying that you should not, that is your choice,
just as it is my choice to read certain slants into your objective
for posting.
Click to expand...
Hmm...

The issue IMO is that those who (for one reason or another) have a focussing issue with their D60/1D/10D/1Ds are usually bombarded with "you're an idiot who don't know how AF works!" postings.

AFAICT David has instead tried to educate the masses that, indeed, mishaps happen and Canon make mistakes just as everyone else. A small (?) number of bodies exist with genuine bonafide AF problems that can't be solved without the service CD containing the AF adjustment software. The mere existance of such software suggests that it's quite likely that such problems may turn up from time to time.

I'm not saying that users don't err -- they usually do. But the attitude of some of the posters is down right hostile. Specially if you float the suggestion that new customers should perhaps conduct some basic tests (kick the tires so to speak) while they can still exchange the camera for another one without having to wait two weeks for Canon to fix their problem. Some people seem to find that to be an absolutely horrible and offensive suggestion and they act as if you've just stuck your genitalia up their nose or something. (I apologise, my sense of humour isn't very advanced this early in the morning)

I think it's fair to say that if you're going to keep your camera for ten+ years, it's quite reasonable to assume that you at some point in time will want to service it; be it to replace the shutter, calibrate the exposure meter or adjust AF. Time is something that'll affect all cameras, not just Canon (well, Canon last longer, don't they? So they're bound to be adjusted more! ;-) ).

David's point that we haven't noticed this with past SLR generations due to the small sized prints is probably right on the money. Film has a broader dynamic range and the lab usually takes care of under/overexposure, hence most users never calibrate their exposure meters. And judging AF accuracy has for the majority of SLR users not been an issue either, since most people stick with the small prints. Hence if 0.01% or 1% or all SLR bodies need AF adjustment, it doesn't matter for 99% of the users that get one of the "lemons".

YMMV, but why not make sure yours is in perfect shape while you can still freely exchange it?

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
 
Geir Ove said:
That when one spend $2000 - $ 3000 (camera & lenses), one doesn't
want to start doing the testing that CANON should have done, AND
possibly sending the camera to the dealer as soon as it arrives?
Click to expand...
It's common knowledge that any production facility will produce a certain number of "lemons", products that don't work 100% according to spec.

It's not limited to Canon, it's not limited to cameras and it's certainly not limited to a particular part of the world or country.

If you buy a German car you can't be dead certain that the seat belt works 100% correctly or that the brakes won't fail after a certain mileage. That's why sometimes car manufacturers recall a certain model. --it happens.

And cars, as you well know, costs a lot more than a camera.

So IMO price has nothing to do with this.

If you're searching for excuses not to buy a particular product, you've certainly found an effective way of doing so. Good luck to you next time you want to replace your dish washer or buy a new car.

Again: Norwegian consumer laws are quite good. Use them.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
 
Geir Ove said:
Read here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=5530119

Quote:
"I believe that all 10Ds are defective, not just a small percentage
as is commonly accepted. Some people are not complaining because
they primarily use the camera with a combination of subject matter
and lens choices which mask the autofocusing problem."
Click to expand...
The guy is, pardon my French, speaking out of his rear.

In one instance he is accusing the DIGIC processor of AF malfunction (in order to lend credibility to his technical knowledge), and in the next he is dead certain it's an issue affecting ALL 10D users.

Both statements are not only inaccurate, they're total fabrications.

Believe me, this forum would be a lot noisier in case all users had been infected. Subject matter and lens choice notwithstanding.

(had it affected ALL users, don't you think e.g. Michael Reichmann would be the first to say so?)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
 
Possible reasons why people don're realize the problem where both given by the reference, and by me here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5526102

Geir Ove
Rune Moberg said:
Geir Ove said:
Read here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=5530119

Quote:
"I believe that all 10Ds are defective, not just a small percentage
as is commonly accepted. Some people are not complaining because
they primarily use the camera with a combination of subject matter
and lens choices which mask the autofocusing problem."
Click to expand...
The guy is, pardon my French, speaking out of his rear.

In one instance he is accusing the DIGIC processor of AF
malfunction (in order to lend credibility to his technical
knowledge), and in the next he is dead certain it's an issue
affecting ALL 10D users.

Both statements are not only inaccurate, they're total fabrications.

Believe me, this forum would be a lot noisier in case all users had
been infected. Subject matter and lens choice notwithstanding.

(had it affected ALL users, don't you think e.g. Michael Reichmann
would be the first to say so?)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
Click to expand...
 
Rune Moberg said:
The issue IMO is that those who (for one reason or another) have a
focussing issue with their D60/1D/10D/1Ds are usually bombarded
with "you're an idiot who don't know how AF works!" postings.
Click to expand...
I think there are zealots on both sides of the fence. There are just as many "You're an idiot for not testing under the most extreme conditions ..." It is sort of like the following saying "if a tree falls in the forest but there's no one around, does it make any sound?". The more technically inclined would argue - of course, and go on to describe sound wave theory. Those less technically inclined would say they could care less.

What I don't understand is why is there a need for a new topic to garner "votes" on whether or not DavidP was "flamed"? Could this not have been addressed in that post?

Though I do not disagree with what DavidP is saying, his message has been said way too many times already, by a great number of other people. You can only lead a horse to water, you can't force it to drink.

--
Zero my hero
 
Geir Ove said:
Possible reasons why people don're realize the problem where both
given by the reference, and by me here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5526102
Click to expand...
Geir, look:

I've noticed you on this forum before. I'm pretty sure you were here about a year ago yapping about the D60's poor AF performance in low-light situations. Fine. I can accept that, if that's what makes a difference for you, then it's better to wait than take the plunge with a system that doesn't meet your needs.

Now you're back, this time you're convinced AF doesn't work at all based on rather flimsy evidence and backed by a notion that 99% of 10D users wouldn't notice this problem at all. This is in spite of several users reporting having fixed their problem either by exchanging the camera at the dealer or sending it in for service. Obviously this alone should be enough to prove that the problem does NOT affect ALL 10D bodies.

Lets say the semi-official "0.6% faulty AF in 10D bodies" number is correct. Some say it's much less, and some seem to think it's closer to 100%... There's obviously some discrepancy, but as long as the customer can sort out the problem it's not a big issue. Specially not in a country with good up-to-date consumer protection laws.

If a fully functioning 10D has the features you need, then go for it. It's that simple. (and if you still don't believe me, why don't you buy a Nikon D100?)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
 
That I , personally, think you are wrong. Hard to swollow for a sworn brand loyal guy I suppose. I happen to have both Canons, Minoltas and Nikons: No particular Brand Lock-in. All I want is DSLRs to improve, and to get a better one next time I buy.

Geir Ove
Rune Moberg said:
Geir Ove said:
Possible reasons why people don're realize the problem where both
given by the reference, and by me here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5526102
Click to expand...
Geir, look:

I've noticed you on this forum before. I'm pretty sure you were
here about a year ago yapping about the D60's poor AF performance
in low-light situations. Fine. I can accept that, if that's what
makes a difference for you, then it's better to wait than take the
plunge with a system that doesn't meet your needs.

Now you're back, this time you're convinced AF doesn't work at all
based on rather flimsy evidence and backed by a notion that 99% of
10D users wouldn't notice this problem at all. This is in spite of
several users reporting having fixed their problem either by
exchanging the camera at the dealer or sending it in for service.
Obviously this alone should be enough to prove that the problem
does NOT affect ALL 10D bodies.

Lets say the semi-official "0.6% faulty AF in 10D bodies" number is
correct. Some say it's much less, and some seem to think it's
closer to 100%... There's obviously some discrepancy, but as long
as the customer can sort out the problem it's not a big issue.
Specially not in a country with good up-to-date consumer protection
laws.

If a fully functioning 10D has the features you need, then go for
it. It's that simple. (and if you still don't believe me, why don't
you buy a Nikon D100?)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
Click to expand...
 
Geir Ove said:
That I , personally, think you are wrong. Hard to swollow for a
sworn brand loyal guy I suppose. I happen to have both Canons,
Minoltas and Nikons: No particular Brand Lock-in. All I want is
DSLRs to improve, and to get a better one next time I buy.
Click to expand...
Look, these issues will always be present no matter when or what you buy.

I don't care what camera you have or what you want to buy, but if the reported 10D focus issues is what's keeping you personally from buying a 10D, then you're a nit. If OTOH you find a fully functioning 10D not quite what you have in mind, then I respect that. After all, that's how I personally feel about the 10D as well.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/
 
Step back a minute, and just imagine I'm talking to a friend in that post, and added that sentence at the end of my conversation.

It's hardly Canon bashing.
Louis44 said:
Louis44 said:
Hopefully Canon knows it at this point, but sometimes ya gotta
wonder if they're still trying to figure it out.
Click to expand...
Another empty and unfounded "theory" - stop the bashing and get a
life;
how many more times do you need to hear this? Which part of that
message is so difficult to understand?
Click to expand...
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers
 
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