1Ds focus issues -- truth, or lies?

[Jason Hutchinson]

Dave,

These same accusations were spread around the forum when people discussed the D60 thumbnail bugs. Most of the people though discussed it in an objective, productive way although most got bashed like you did in this referenced post. Your posts on this topic are just to help people out, yet people still take it as an attack on the system and try to quiet you on the topic. The same type of people tried to quiet down all the talk of the D60 thumbnail bugs by attacking the people that talked about it.

The difference? There was a firmware update for the D60 that not only fixed the problem the bashers said didn't exist, it immediately shut up those bashers. There will not and can not be a firmware update to relieve any focus calibration issues however, so expect this to continue as long as you're a resource on this topic.

I just about fell out of my chair laughing at the idiot above that said people should take more pictures instead of rulers. People such as Pekka have taken more quality photos already than these idiots will ever take, yet they've taken some time out to do such tests as well and don't regret it.

Jason

In another thread, Mind'sEye asked:

Mind'sEye wrote:

"So far, I have only read about focus issues with the 10D, but have
not seen, or perhaps missed seing, complaints about the 1Ds. I
would love to see comments by 1Ds owners."

I responded with:

"I've seen at least one complaint on RobG's forum about
front-focusing on a 1Ds. Bear in mind, there aren't many 1Ds
owners relative to 10D owners, so you wouldn't expect to see nearly
as many complaints. I don't think anybody knows how the relative
percentage of complaints compares, though."

Others have insinuated that my reply was somehow untrue or
misleading, and didn't display "critical thinking skills" on my
part.

I ask you all:

1) What part is untrue?

2) What part is misleading?

3) What part illustrates poor "critical thinking skills"?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Rune Moberg]

The difference? There was a firmware update for the D60 that not
only fixed the problem the bashers said didn't exist, it
immediately shut up those bashers. There will not and can not be a

Yet... Yet you haven't upgraded your D60 to 1.0.4, have you? I'm pretty sure I saw you mention a while back that you're still at 1.0.2, you infidel!



--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

 

[Jason Hutchinson]

Yet... Yet you haven't upgraded your D60 to 1.0.4, have you? I'm
pretty sure I saw you mention a while back that you're still at
1.0.2, you infidel!

Yes, you're right, I get around it with Breezebrowsers fix for now. I was thinking of upgrading a couple weeks ago, but didn't because I was about to go to Yellowstone and I would break my rule of messing with a camera just before you really need it. You never know when your power or battery will go out in the middle of a firmware upgrade.

Jason

 

[Geir Ove]

It's nice that you worry about me but I will buy myu DSLR in due time. Heck, I already have one: A Minolta D7. And, yes it has AF problems, and yes, I hate just that, and that's why I will try to avoid another camera with AF problems.

Like another poster said: Most modern DSLRs including the 10D is built around the AF, with MF as a badly implemented "rescue option". Old Film SLR 20 to 30 years ago had excellent MF systems with Split Screen and all kinds of Innovative support for Manual Focus. No such things with the "modern" (makes you wonder about the use of the word, doesn't it) DSLR cameras: Most of them have very rudimentery support for MF (including the 10 D). Thus this makes it even more crucial that the AF works right. I have spoiled on to many pictures due to bad AF with my D7, and have friends complaining about the same with the D30, D60 and guess what: The 10D! (even though it's less frequent)

Geir Ove

Rune said:

snip:

"I fully accept that the 10D may not be the camera for you, but the way you're going on an on about these "issues" makes me think you'll never buy a DSLR in your life, even if it only cost a penny and someone showed up at your doorstep every week to service it for free."

 

[DavidP #28649]

You can only go so far as to how somebody might interpret something. After all, Clinton "didn't have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinski".

No flame intended here, I honestly tried to answer your original
question (question 2). Specifically, that one part of your quoted
statement could be interpreted as misleading if someone read a
slant into it. I didn't, but I could see how someone could.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

Aren't you already supposed to BE there?

Yes, you're right, I get around it with Breezebrowsers fix for now.
I was thinking of upgrading a couple weeks ago, but didn't because
I was about to go to Yellowstone and I would break my rule of
messing with a camera just before you really need it. You never
know when your power or battery will go out in the middle of a
firmware upgrade.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Jason Hutchinson]

Aren't you already supposed to BE there?

I just got back. My 802.11b is seriously lacking with this many images.

Jason

 

[Rune Moberg]

time. Heck, I already have one: A Minolta D7. And, yes it has AF
problems, and yes, I hate just that, and that's why I will try to
avoid another camera with AF problems.

But again: AF missing completely (i.e. an incorrectly indicated AF lock) or just slow/hunting AF? Two different animals.

The '10D issue' most people are talking about (including Michael Reichmann quoted earlier) is NOT slow AF performance compared to EOS 1 bodies. What's got people worried is that an unknown number of 10D bodies aren't calibrated correctly and have front/back focus issues.

And as I've told you: This particular issue should have no bearing on you. You buy, you test and then decide if you want to keep it. It's an easy procedure and you obviously have time on your hands to do just that. (you could've done that today instead of talking about it here...)

Like another poster said: Most modern DSLRs including the 10D is
built around the AF, with MF as a badly implemented "rescue

Well, "most"... The 1D and 1Ds have interchangable focus screens and their viewfinders are very bright and allow for effective MF. Of course, having state of the art AF performance negates the need for MF, but there you are. If that's what you need, then there's your answer. (this is incidentally the route I'll be taking soon)

have very rudimentery support for MF (including the 10 D). Thus
this makes it even more crucial that the AF works right. I
have spoiled on to many pictures due to bad AF with my D7, and have
friends complaining about the same with the D30, D60 and guess
what: The 10D! (even though it's less frequent)

Well, the consensus here seems to be that yes, there are some bad 10D bodies around, but there are also some user mishaps when it comes to understanding basic AF functionality. DOF is small compared to smaller cameras and you'll pretty soon notice a lemon.

If your only reason for not buying a 10D now is that you may be the one (out of a hundred) that ends up with a lemon... Well, as I've been trying to tell you: You'll never buy a DSLR.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

 

[Louis44]

People such as Pekka...

So what did Pekka say about the 1Ds focus issues? Do you have any links to past threads?

 

[Jason Hutchinson]

So what did Pekka say about the 1Ds focus issues? Do you have any
links to past threads?

I don't know what he said about 1Ds issues. If you want to do some searching I'd recommend this forum, his forum, and perhaps RobG's forum. I'm not sure how much you'll find as last I checked he doesn't have a 1Ds.

As a datapoint, I met a guy 2 or 3 days ago at Yellowstone that had a 1Ds and a 24-70 that had to go into Canon for front focus. He's happy now, although he complained a bit of barrel distortion at 24mm.

If you are implying or have any information for us that the 1Ds is any different than the 1D or 1V in it's need for factory calibration, or in some cases re-calibration after it ships, then that would be helpful.

Jason

 

[Geir Ove]

Some peiple here have had 3 to 4 samples before getting a good one.

Is this an "easy procedure" as you describe it? Give me a break.

It's nice to dream, but this problem(s) can easily turn into a nightmare.

Geir Ove

time. Heck, I already have one: A Minolta D7. And, yes it has AF
problems, and yes, I hate just that, and that's why I will try to
avoid another camera with AF problems.

But again: AF missing completely (i.e. an incorrectly indicated AF
lock) or just slow/hunting AF? Two different animals.

The '10D issue' most people are talking about (including Michael
Reichmann quoted earlier) is NOT slow AF performance compared to
EOS 1 bodies. What's got people worried is that an unknown number
of 10D bodies aren't calibrated correctly and have front/back focus
issues.

And as I've told you: This particular issue should have no bearing
on you. You buy, you test and then decide if you want to keep it.
It's an easy procedure and you obviously have time on your hands to
do just that. (you could've done that today instead of talking
about it here...)

Like another poster said: Most modern DSLRs including the 10D is
built around the AF, with MF as a badly implemented "rescue

Well, "most"... The 1D and 1Ds have interchangable focus screens
and their viewfinders are very bright and allow for effective MF.
Of course, having state of the art AF performance negates the need
for MF, but there you are. If that's what you need, then there's
your answer. (this is incidentally the route I'll be taking soon)

have very rudimentery support for MF (including the 10 D). Thus
this makes it even more crucial that the AF works right. I
have spoiled on to many pictures due to bad AF with my D7, and have
friends complaining about the same with the D30, D60 and guess
what: The 10D! (even though it's less frequent)

Well, the consensus here seems to be that yes, there are some bad
10D bodies around, but there are also some user mishaps when it
comes to understanding basic AF functionality. DOF is small
compared to smaller cameras and you'll pretty soon notice a lemon.

If your only reason for not buying a 10D now is that you may be the
one (out of a hundred) that ends up with a lemon... Well, as I've
been trying to tell you: You'll never buy a DSLR.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

 

[Geir Ove]

to read:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5528315

Probably another "happy" ovner, don't you think? And I guess he thinks the process is very easy and comfortable. Going on holiday with your 10D? Eh, no, it won't be back from Canon service until then, so I have to go without it...duh !

Geir Ove

 

[DavidP #28649]

Relatively few have had this experience, fortunately.

Do you have a dealer nearby? Will they let you exchange the camera if you find a problem? If you find a problem in several of them, could you get your money back?

I would go to your dealer with your concerns. Surely they would work with you on this problem, should the need even arise.

If you really want the camera, except for this issue, don't let it stop you.

Some peiple here have had 3 to 4 samples before getting a good one.

Is this an "easy procedure" as you describe it? Give me a break.

It's nice to dream, but this problem(s) can easily turn into a
nightmare.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

Were you the guy telling me I was silly for hooking up my laptop via firewire to transfer, instead of using 802.11b?

Aren't you already supposed to BE there?

I just got back. My 802.11b is seriously lacking with this many
images.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[DavidP #28649]

I suspect that all Canon DSLR's (with the possible exception of the 10D) are very similar in terms of how many ship with AF-calibration issues that need to be addressed.

I think the big unknown here is how are the units calibrated to begin with?

If they are all individually calibrated from the get-go, then there shouldn't be a huge percentage of problems.

Now, if they're all set to some "factory default", and that value is only good for some particular body thickness, and they're having a problem with body thickness consistency, then that could explain higher percentages (if the percentages are, indeed, higher for the 10D).

Wouldn't you like to know the REAL story?

Hopefully Canon knows it at this point, but sometimes ya gotta wonder if they're still trying to figure it out.

If you are implying or have any information for us that the 1Ds is
any different than the 1D or 1V in it's need for factory
calibration, or in some cases re-calibration after it ships, then
that would be helpful.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

 

[Larry H. Smith]

I just about fell out of my chair laughing at the idiot above that
said people should take more pictures instead of rulers. People
such as Pekka have taken more quality photos already than these
idiots will ever take, yet they've taken some time out to do such
tests as well and don't regret it.

"Idiots"?

Are you sure they're not morons?

Maybe they're imbeciles!

I believe there are definite criteria for these classifications.

Have you tested them?

If you have, ...why weren't you out taking photos instead?

Larry ;-)

 

[Rune Moberg]

Some peiple here have had 3 to 4 samples before getting a good one.

Is this an "easy procedure" as you describe it? Give me a break.

Here, where you and I live -- it is simple! As long as you're aware there can be a problem (which you are) and test it within the first 14 days (which I presume you'll do).

As I've been trying to tell you, talking, ranting and fretting about it here is not going to solve anything for you.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

 

[Rune Moberg]

Do you have a dealer nearby? Will they let you exchange the camera
if you find a problem? If you find a problem in several of them,
could you get your money back?

His profile states that he lives in Norway. Norwegian law is consumer friendly to the extreme. Not only will he get a full cash refund if returned within 14 days, but he could probably set fire to the store should he so desire. (ok, I made that last bit up -- but it's a safe "gamble")

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

 

[Rune Moberg]

Probably another "happy" ovner, don't you think? And I guess he

Geir... With all possibly due respect...

His situation is totally different from yours. Read up on Norwegian consumer laws. I think you'll find that the risk involved for you personally is incredibly small. Unless you purchase your camera the day before you're leaving on a one month expedition to Africa that is. But just use the grey thing between your ears and you'll be fine.

As I said, YOU, here in Norway, have a 14 day generous return policy, plus two (or is it three now?) years of warranty.

The situation is different if you're planning on buying a camera abroad. That's something I wouldn't recommend in any case ("focus issue" or not), and judging by your nervousness I strongly advice against it.

If there's one good thing about living in this cold country it's the consumer protection laws. Take advantage of that.

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

 

[Louis44]

So what did Pekka say about the 1Ds focus issues? Do you have any
links to past threads?

I don't know what he said about 1Ds issues.

I see...