B+H's dirty little secret: selling used goods as new

I am a newbie to this forum, let's say over a week, and I noticed the 10D bashing last week was replaced by B&H now.
Anybody know who's on the line for next week? LOL

fabiolad
This B&H slamming is giving Canon a bit of a break in this forum. :-)

--
-
Some people are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything,
but you still can't help but smile when you see them tumble down
the stairs. ;-)
 
B&H will get it again. It seems that there's somebody that gets upset every few months or so.

Kinda speaks for the volume of business they do, IMO.
I am a newbie to this forum, let's say over a week, and I noticed
the 10D bashing last week was replaced by B&H now.
Anybody know who's on the line for next week? LOL
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.
 
bought vertical blinds, the rail was bent. Returned, ZERO questions asked.

Stores like these become my favorites and that's where my buck$ end up at.
There are companies that have great service putting service above
suspicion. One such example is Home Depot, I just bought an
expensive tool, used it and then found the unlock mechanism faulty.
Went to exchange, they did not even care about the reason for
exchange even though it had clearly been used. In fact they just
returned the item allowing me to repurchase it if I want! Really
that is impressive, plus you don't see used products that are not
marked as returned.

Sorry companies like this set the gold standard that all others
need to try to reach.
 
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5482868

are indeed unacceptable.
But I've never had a problem with B&H, I've never bought anything
from them that wasn't completely new, and New Yorkers have always
struck me as being surprisingly kind and gentle with strangers. The
first time I went to New York, which was to visit my agent, Black
Star, I was really surprised at how helpful and friendly everybody
was. Just the opposite of what I expected.

I blame this culture of trying out gear and returning it. I've
never returned a piece of camera gear. I don't know any pros who
do. What I see here on the forum is a bunch of equipment freaks who
get buyer's remorse, or think they need to "hand pick" the best
individual lens from a lot of 5. That is baloney. These people need
to shoot more pictures and spend less time worrying about stuff
that doesn't matter.

Abu Mumia the Mammal
--
'Secondly I like scotch, and thirdly I like bullfighting.'
  • Ernest Hemingway
 
end enjoy the wonderful blurriness demonstrated here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=5482868

Heck, it's "only" $1.4K!
10D must focus down to the micrometer or its defective.
A lens must be shrink-wrapped and not have a fingerprint on the
casing or the unthinkable tiny speck of dust on the lens itself.
Anything else and the lens must have been used.
Every pixel in the image must be "tack" sharp.

What next ??

10D must attain focus before the shutter is even pressed, it must
read my mind and "know" what must be in focus. Then it will
automattically crop, resize, color adjust, sharpen, and finally
email the photo to family and friends around the globe.

Nothing is perfect. Relax, take a pill, go out and take some
pictures or something.

Jeez.

Chris
FYI, I'd say that most places that allow you to return "like new"
merchandise without a restocking fee will simply re-sell those
items as new.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.
--
----------------------
http://www.pbase.com/otto9000
See my profile for equipment.
 
Some newbie named fabiolad. :)
I am a newbie to this forum, let's say over a week, and I noticed
the 10D bashing last week was replaced by B&H now.
Anybody know who's on the line for next week? LOL

fabiolad
--
John
 
hate to tell you, but it's common practice in most every retail
place. don't shop at sears as they have a full customer
satisfaction pledge and I'm sure they put back items too.

so long as nothing is wrong with the items, things should be fine.
But Tim, thats the point, how do you know that if its returned and repacked and resold that its OK? I know Sears does it as I returned a bad Sony 707 and I saw them reprice the box. Not the way to do business. If its bad return it to the factory dont sell it to someone else.
--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter
 
If you really want retailers to follow such a policy ("never
touched by human hands") then expect the cost of their business to
go up, and the price to you go up.

Someone has to eat the cost -- it aint gonna be the retailer, and
it aint gonna be the distributor, and it most certainly aint gonna
be the manufacturer!
If its bad the manufacturer should eat it. Its their problem not mine and not the stores. Why should anyone expext other than new for new price?

I go to a store and expect a properly working whatever, not someones returned problem.
--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter
 
by taking the real-world pictures and trying to enjoy them.

I know from my previous experience what kind of joy I can get when I shell out $1400.
10D must focus down to the micrometer or its defective.
A lens must be shrink-wrapped and not have a fingerprint on the
casing or the unthinkable tiny speck of dust on the lens itself.
Anything else and the lens must have been used.
Every pixel in the image must be "tack" sharp.

What next ??

10D must attain focus before the shutter is even pressed, it must
read my mind and "know" what must be in focus. Then it will
automattically crop, resize, color adjust, sharpen, and finally
email the photo to family and friends around the globe.

Nothing is perfect. Relax, take a pill, go out and take some
pictures or something.

Jeez.

Chris
FYI, I'd say that most places that allow you to return "like new"
merchandise without a restocking fee will simply re-sell those
items as new.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.
--
----------------------
http://www.pbase.com/otto9000
See my profile for equipment.
--
(See profile for equipment I own -- questions welcome.)
 
I'm not sure i really want to deal with a store that has too liberal a return policy. They didn't care why you returned it - therefore, it means they didn't care how it wil be sold to the next guy. Selling as used is not OK, as the product was found to be defective.

Secondly, the cost of processing the liberal return policy has to come from somewhere - yep, you guessed it - your pockets. I do not want to pay for someone who is out for a rental or who does not know what they want and decides to buy both to go and compare. I do not do that, but I expect others are not so conscientious.

I think a store should let you examine the goods before you buy. If your purchase is clearly missing some items (like wrist straps, etc.) this should be obvious at inspection, that way this saves you time from having to come back for it. If something is wrong with it then by all means allow exchange for new. If the buyer just changed their minds, charge a restocking fee and sell as returned items. That way, the person that changes their mind is the person who pays, which is where the burden should be. Since they were given opportunity to inspect in the store beforehand.
I meant they refunded the money and did not require me to
repurchase the same product or a similar product.

to carry this a little further, they reall have an amazing return
policy. An employee said people will return lawn mowers after the
summer clearly used and they will accept them for return. I know
there are moral issues here and you leave your self open for
exploitation by some with this liberal of return policies but it
really build costermer loyalty among honest patronsand I'll spend a
few bucks more knowing the company backs the goods they sell.

Anyway, sorry for the confusion, hope this explains what I meant.

Scott
--
Zero my hero
 
FWIW, it sems to me that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a liberal return policy and expect the retailer to send EVERYTHING back to Canon, even if it was just returned because the original purchaser decided that it wasn't the camera or lens for them! As long as the equipment is in pristine condition, I see no problem with this, ESPECIALLY SINCE I AM ALSO COVERED BY THIS LIBERAL RETURN POLICY!

Also, NOTHING in this world is perfect, so even if your lens box has never ever been opened, the lens likey comes with some idiosyncracies built into that lens. No two lenses will ever be the same, so if you get a god one with a fingerprint on the barrel, why exchange it for another which might not be as good? Won't you put your own fingerprints on the lens anyway???

I speak from experience: My 70-200mm f/2.8L has a small speck of dust on one of the internal elements since new (was actually a store demo), my 50mm f/1.4 has a white speck of dust inside it since new, and my 16-35 f/2.8L has a small fault in the front lens coating (I though it was a miniscule water spot at first, and never worried about it until I had the lens for 6 weeks or so).

I thought about exchanging all of them, but all are very good examples - sharp, contrasty, great optically! Canon Australia even offered to clean the lenses for me (for free), but admitted that other dust might get in while being serviced... after thinking aout it real hard, I decided to keep all three. Why risk getting an inferior sample for something that I will never see in the images taken with these lenses? Also, down the road a few years, it is likely that the lenses will have to be serviced by Canon, and the (perceived) problems can be taken care of at that time, but only if the lenses have to be taken apart anyway! Why fix it if it ain't broke?

Now, if the faults affected the images taken with these lenses, that would be a whole another kettle of fish, and I would expect an exchange or a fix!

--
Regards,

Rudi
http://www.rudiphoto.net/
 
How do you know that something fresh out of a factory sealed box is "OK?" It either works to your satisfaction or it doesn't.

I agree that if something is returned because of a putative defect it should not be resold as new. But if it's returned under an unconditional return policy for reasons like "didn't fit" or just "didn't like it," the store has little choice but to resell as new if it's in new condition. That's why the stores ask why you're returning something. I certainly wouldn't expect them to do anything else.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net
But Tim, thats the point, how do you know that if its returned and
repacked and resold that its OK? I know Sears does it as I returned
a bad Sony 707 and I saw them reprice the box. Not the way to do
business. If its bad return it to the factory dont sell it to
someone else.
 
They could always jack up prices, and then offer a discount on returned items.

Or, charge a restocking fee to cover the returned item.

But you'd better buy gramma the right size sweater, and one she likes!
How do you know that something fresh out of a factory sealed box is
"OK?" It either works to your satisfaction or it doesn't.

I agree that if something is returned because of a putative defect
it should not be resold as new. But if it's returned under an
unconditional return policy for reasons like "didn't fit" or just
"didn't like it," the store has little choice but to resell as new
if it's in new condition. That's why the stores ask why you're
returning something. I certainly wouldn't expect them to do
anything else.
--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.
 
How do you know that something fresh out of a factory sealed box is
"OK?" It either works to your satisfaction or it doesn't.
I don't but I know its new and isn't a return of someone elses problem.
I agree that if something is returned because of a putative defect
it should not be resold as new. But if it's returned under an
unconditional return policy for reasons like "didn't fit" or just
"didn't like it," the store has little choice but to resell as new
if it's in new condition. That's why the stores ask why you're
returning something. I certainly wouldn't expect them to do
anything else.
Problem is a 800.00 or 1500.00 lens isnt a 35.00 sweater that you may return because it doesn't fit, and you can pick the one you want out of a stack. See the problem is the store is at the mercy of the person returning the "soft" lens that he "doesn't like" so it gets repackaged as new and now someone else has a "soft" lens. Maybe the thing to do to stop renting as David put it is to have a restocking fee unless the part is defective. I don't know the answer, Im just stating how --I-- feel about it.
Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net
But Tim, thats the point, how do you know that if its returned and
repacked and resold that its OK? I know Sears does it as I returned
a bad Sony 707 and I saw them reprice the box. Not the way to do
business. If its bad return it to the factory dont sell it to
someone else.
--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter
 
They could always jack up prices, and then offer a discount on
returned items.

Or, charge a restocking fee to cover the returned item.

But you'd better buy gramma the right size sweater, and one she likes!
A 1200.00 lens isn't a sweater!
  1. 2 maybe the best. Auto parts stores have done this for years.
--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter
 
nt means "no text"...
goods? You didn't think they were resold ?

Haven't you noticed dishonesty is institutionalized in many
business practices? So much so most people don't even think of
such things as being dishonest.

Do you feel advertising is basically honest?

When you buy a car did you ever add up the payments and work out
what the interest rate actually IS ? - compared to what the finance
company SAYS it is? Do you even know how ?

Did you ever wonder why - when you buy an item on time - the seller
ALWAYS trades off or sells the debt - so if you become unhappy you
owe a separate company from the one you bought from?

I live in rural Idaho. I passed a billboard today with a picture
of a woman clasping her hands with a beatific expression on her
face. The logo was "dreams DO come true...". It is an ad for the
local Indian gambling casino. (Yeah, sure, dreams do come true at
a gambling casino, right)...

I am an old geezer - 74. When I was a kid the mob "ran the
numbers". Now it is your state government that runs lotteries.

The mob paid $500 for $1 if you "hit". The number was the last 3
digits in the NYSE final results - so you got $500 for $1 but the
odds were 999 to 1 - which made the "boys" a tidy living.

Now for the dirty little secret here - the mob offered better odds
than the government lotteries do today. And they didn't trick you
by offering one payoff but paying less if you want all the money
right now.

Wake up and smell the roses - of course if you are allowed to
return goods the seller just repacks them and sells them new.
What did you think they would do - eat them? And if you think a
"sealed" box, "pristine packaging" or "brand spanking new
paperwork" means anything at all - boy, have I got a bridge for
you!!!!

By the way - where do you think all those almost new cars on used
car lots come from ??? If a stolen car with a "new" value of
$25,000 costs a couple of thousand for forge "impeccable
credentials" for - how much is a stolen car with 1000 miles on the
clock worth ? And guess whose insurance rates pay for all this ????

Wakee, wakee -
--
willie408
'Violence never settled anything' - Genghis Khan
--
Mskad.

 
I just got an email notice that this previously out of stock item is now availble.
Coincidence? I hope..
...it might be mine. :) Just returned it to exchange for longer lens.
(but it really is pristine, mint)

I kind of wondered at their liberal return policy, but since they
do have used items for sale from time to time, sometimes at fairly
close to New price, I assumed this was how they sold returns.

In their defense, I've ordered maybe a dozen items from B&H, all
were mint/new. ADORAMA, on the other hand, sold me UV filters &
Circ Polarizers that were CLEARLY used. Optically in fine
condition, but the metal rings had scratches/wear. When I called
them about it the service rep was actually getting mad at ME, for
trying to find out how to return them for new ones, insisting that
they only sell new equipment. Maybe New York really is that
stressful, or maybe he was having a bad day, or thought I was
trying to "work the system." In any case I'll not be buying from
them again, but I'll be more careful when ordering from B&H.

I think when you're spending this much on equipment, whatever it
is, you expect it to be factory-fresh, especially optical equipment
which has a sensitivity factor.

It's interesting that Canon doesn't shrink-wrap their boxes or put
some sort of tamper-seal.
--
Barry F. Shaffer
Mesa, AZ
Canon D30
Cannon 28-135 IS
Sigma 15-30
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top