B+H's dirty little secret: selling used goods as new

[Jonathan Morse]

B+H has a very liberal return policy. You can return anything,(almost), for any reason,(almost), within seven days. Both B+H and some of their customers abuse this priviledge which is part of B+H's sales strategy: "Try it, you'll like it. If you don't, just return it." Naturally, they get quite a few returns from people who, for various reasons, changed their minds. This can range from a defective unit, to a customer just treating himself to a 'free rental'. I wondered what B+H did with all this stuff, and I was told by a B+H employee, that in many cases, it appears that B+H simply puts the item back in stock, and reships. Sometimes, he said, they might repack with freshly sealed information packs. If you look at the volumn of stuff returned around the corner, you can see it is a lot of merchandise, most of it works perfectly well, and it has to go somewhere. Many business would not classify this material as new, since it was previously sold.

When dealing with B+H, I always reply to the " Levi is out" ploy with the news that they can expect the next call from my attorney. This usually produces a very helpful customer's relation person who immediately solves the problem.

B+H is a great institution, you just have to know what to expect and how to deal with it.

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

When dealing with B+H, I always reply to the " Levi is out" ploy
with the news that they can expect the next call from my attorney.
This usually produces a very helpful customer's relation person who
immediately solves the problem.
B+H is a great institution, you just have to know what to expect
and how to deal with it.

Service through extortion.. why should the customer have to resort to that technique to get the service they deserve?

Many reading this will just assume it's a "New York Thing"...

Jim Radcliffe
--------------------------
http://www.image36.com
The ability to 'see' is more important than the gear.

 

[Banana Chips™]

it may seem hard to believe but i did experience this with B&H when i purchased a Nikon reversing ring. i bought new but what i received was clearly used: box was beat up, scratches on the ring. i called Customer Service about this and they did tell me to send it back to get a really new one. in the end i never bothered since the unit was working fine anyway...at the price of the reversing ring it's not worth the hassle.

B+H has a very liberal return policy. You can return
anything,(almost), for any reason,(almost), within seven days. Both
B+H and some of their customers abuse this priviledge which is part
of B+H's sales strategy: "Try it, you'll like it. If you don't,
just return it." Naturally, they get quite a few returns from
people who, for various reasons, changed their minds. This can
range from a defective unit, to a customer just treating himself to
a 'free rental'. I wondered what B+H did with all this stuff, and I
was told by a B+H employee, that in many cases, it appears that
B+H simply puts the item back in stock, and reships. Sometimes, he
said, they might repack with freshly sealed information packs. If
you look at the volumn of stuff returned around the corner, you can
see it is a lot of merchandise, most of it works perfectly well,
and it has to go somewhere. Many business would not classify this
material as new, since it was previously sold.
When dealing with B+H, I always reply to the " Levi is out" ploy
with the news that they can expect the next call from my attorney.
This usually produces a very helpful customer's relation person who
immediately solves the problem.
B+H is a great institution, you just have to know what to expect
and how to deal with it.

--
your photos suck.

 

[Ken C. Smith]

Since we, in California have to put up with so many jokes/jibes from the rest of the country, let me comment on New Yorkers.

Unfortunately, there does exist a somewhat combative nature that develops in people who have to deal with life in New York.

My ex-father-in-law was a very talented book salesman in Northern California. So good that he was promoted to Vice President of Sales and moved to New York. About a year later he came out for a visit -- and he was not the same man. He was obnoxious and excessively demanding to everyone who waited on him. It was so bad that I refused to go out to dinner with him.

He burned out and after another couple of very successful years and moved back to California. It took a year or so for him to decompress and return to normal.

I don't think that it should be necessary to play games to get good service or talk to a manager -- but when in Rome . . .

Ken

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

When dealing with B+H, I always reply to the " Levi is out" ploy
with the news that they can expect the next call from my attorney.
This usually produces a very helpful customer's relation person who
immediately solves the problem.
B+H is a great institution, you just have to know what to expect
and how to deal with it.

Service through extortion.. why should the customer have to resort
to that technique to get the service they deserve?

Many reading this will just assume it's a "New York Thing"...

Jim Radcliffe
--------------------------
http://www.image36.com
The ability to 'see' is more important than the gear.

--
http://www.ksgraphicart.com

 

[Jim Radcliffe]

I have had similar experiences with people I know who have moved there, use to live there, etc.. Even when I was in the military you tell which guys were from New York (or very close to it) by attitude and demeanor.

I certainly don't suggest that ALL New Yorkers are this way... but many parts of the country (I've lived all over) seem to have the opinon that New York can be very unfriendly and that more so than any other place the buyer must beware.

Jim Radcliffe
--------------------------
http://www.image36.com
The ability to 'see' is more important than the gear.

 

[Montharus]

how do you know that B&H puts these units back to boxes and sells them? As a matter of fact any other stores may probably do that too, but how can you be sure that they do that? I don't wanna defend those guys or something, but you posting a message that could make a bad rep for BH. They have good prices and lotsa gear, and if you don't wanna deal with them simply don't. If this message you post is based on your experience then fine, otherwise please don't spam. it's like saying if a granma had a she would be a granpa...;-)

• (male organ)

--
...timeless, ordered, simply stated, or even implied...

 

[DavidP #28649]

It's New York CITY!

I have had similar experiences with people I know who have moved
there, use to live there, etc.. Even when I was in the military
you tell which guys were from New York (or very close to it) by
attitude and demeanor.

I certainly don't suggest that ALL New Yorkers are this way... but
many parts of the country (I've lived all over) seem to have the
opinon that New York can be very unfriendly and that more so than
any other place the buyer must beware.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.

 

[DavidP #28649]

Henry Posner of B&H has stated here on this forum that they will re-sell items that get returned to them, IF they come back in pristine condition (which is they way they demand to get them returned).

how do you know that B&H puts these units back to boxes and sells
them?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.

 

[Dave37]

I can attest to getting a previously used camera from B&H. It was a Canon S110, and was ordered as a new camera (this was in 2000/2001). 96 pictures had been taken with it before I received it. I might not have noticed, but the manuals weren't all wrapped. I started looking closely at everything. Battery was almost fully charged and had scuff marks on the leads. Wrist strap was already attached (Canon usually ships these in the box for the new owner to attach). The final give-away was that the first picture I took was serial number 97.

I called and they were very nice and took the camera back - credited my account the same day. I still purchase from B&H, because as you correctly stated, they have good prices and lotsa gear, but I pay closer attention now than I used to.

Dave

how do you know that B&H puts these units back to boxes and sells
them? As a matter of fact any other stores may probably do that
too, but how can you be sure that they do that? I don't wanna
defend those guys or something, but you posting a message that
could make a bad rep for BH. They have good prices and lotsa gear,
and if you don't wanna deal with them simply don't. If this message
you post is based on your experience then fine, otherwise please
don't spam. it's like saying if a granma had a she would be a
granpa...;-)

• (male organ)

--
...timeless, ordered, simply stated, or even implied...

 

[Lee Rothman]

I got slammed over a year ago for suggesting such a thing. Indeed if items are returned the "average" retailer will just simply repack the goods and resell them as brand spankin' new. Just the way so many are. I look for the exceptions to the rule though. I'm one of the rare obsessive types that want to be the FIRST one to crack the box open. I've been told by more than a few I'm deluded to think it's even so much as possible. But several companies I've dealt with (Delta, Pictureline to name a few) do absolutely NOT sell in this fashion. That's not to say that one might not slip though the cracks, but these companies will definetly make good on it if it should and be sure to get you a brand spankin' "never previously been opened by anyone" box. Flame away if you wish, it's just the way I do business. Take it or leave it. I'm not saying you should be like me or accept it.......

 

[@Dan.com]

TRUE! I've traveled through upstate NY and they don't even want to be associated with the NY City folks.

I have had similar experiences with people I know who have moved
there, use to live there, etc.. Even when I was in the military
you tell which guys were from New York (or very close to it) by
attitude and demeanor.

I certainly don't suggest that ALL New Yorkers are this way... but
many parts of the country (I've lived all over) seem to have the
opinon that New York can be very unfriendly and that more so than
any other place the buyer must beware.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.

 

[Peter@O]

... if you're not satiesfied with the, say, lens that you can return it to pick (try ?) another ?

I do. And will this lens be returned to Canon ? don't think so.
I'm fine with that (knowing that I could be the next buyer).

As long as the lens I return is not because of a scratch in the glass, and then sold again.

Peter

B+H has a very liberal return policy. You can return
anything,(almost), for any reason,(almost), within seven days. Both
B+H and some of their customers abuse this priviledge which is part
of B+H's sales strategy: "Try it, you'll like it. If you don't,
just return it." Naturally, they get quite a few returns from
people who, for various reasons, changed their minds. This can
range from a defective unit, to a customer just treating himself to
a 'free rental'. I wondered what B+H did with all this stuff, and I
was told by a B+H employee, that in many cases, it appears that
B+H simply puts the item back in stock, and reships. Sometimes, he
said, they might repack with freshly sealed information packs. If
you look at the volumn of stuff returned around the corner, you can
see it is a lot of merchandise, most of it works perfectly well,
and it has to go somewhere. Many business would not classify this
material as new, since it was previously sold.
When dealing with B+H, I always reply to the " Levi is out" ploy
with the news that they can expect the next call from my attorney.
This usually produces a very helpful customer's relation person who
immediately solves the problem.
B+H is a great institution, you just have to know what to expect
and how to deal with it.

 

[Nill Toulme]

I very much value B&H's liberal return policy. It's one of the reasons I do business with them.

When I return something for a reason other than defect (and I only had a defect once in all the many things I have bought from them), I return in it like new, saleable condition. I wouldn't expect them to accept it otherwise.

The corollary to this is that I fully expect that some of the stuff I get will have been returned by someone else. As long as it's in like new, saleable condition, I have no problem at all with that -- and in fairness, how could I?

Heck, it's "used" as soon as I open the box anyway.

Nill
~~
http://www.toulme.net

I got slammed over a year ago for suggesting such a thing. Indeed
if items are returned the "average" retailer will just simply
repack the goods and resell them as brand spankin' new. Just the
way so many are. I look for the exceptions to the rule though. I'm
one of the rare obsessive types that want to be the FIRST one to
crack the box open. I've been told by more than a few I'm deluded
to think it's even so much as possible. But several companies I've
dealt with (Delta, Pictureline to name a few) do absolutely NOT
sell in this fashion. That's not to say that one might not slip
though the cracks, but these companies will definetly make good on
it if it should and be sure to get you a brand spankin' "never
previously been opened by anyone" box. Flame away if you wish, it's
just the way I do business. Take it or leave it. I'm not saying you
should be like me or accept it.......

 

[Scott Goosman]

If its defective should it be resold?

Sounds like a bad slippery slope. If the product is defective then the product should be sent back to canon by B&H not repackaged and sold again. B&H does not appear to adhere to such ideas and will sell you potentially defective products. This could be a real problem if you are ordering mail order, Why should I or you pay shipping charges on defective products?

Scott

 

[Petteri Sulonen]

Jonathan Morse wrote:
[snip]

1. You buy from a dealer with a very liberal return policy.
2. You raise hell if you suspect a purchase is a resealed return item.

This just doesn't add up, Jonathan. If getting virgin goods is so important for you, buy from somewhere that charges a restocking fee and has a stringent return policy. Wanting to have your cake and eat it too makes you a real cheapskate.

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Pontification: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/ ]

 

[DavidP #28649]

If the rest of the world were as reasonable as you and I, we'd have peace in the Middle East.

That's pretty much the way I see it, too.

Funny thing is, I usually do my homework before I buy, so I rarely return anything simply because I don't like it.

But I do know people who abuse the system. Like, buy a tripod at Wal-mart on vacation and use it for a few days, then return it.

I very much value B&H's liberal return policy. It's one of the
reasons I do business with them.

When I return something for a reason other than defect (and I only
had a defect once in all the many things I have bought from them),
I return in it like new, saleable condition. I wouldn't expect
them to accept it otherwise.

The corollary to this is that I fully expect that some of the stuff
I get will have been returned by someone else. As long as it's in
like new, saleable condition, I have no problem at all with that --
and in fairness, how could I?

Heck, it's "used" as soon as I open the box anyway.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.

 

[DavidP #28649]

Clearly a defective lens shouldn't be resold.

The problem becomes one of convincing the merchant that a lens is defective.

If they suspect that the customer is just "working the system", they probably don't really think the lens has a defect.

If its defective should it be resold?

Sounds like a bad slippery slope. If the product is defective then
the product should be sent back to canon by B&H not repackaged and
sold again. B&H does not appear to adhere to such ideas and will
sell you potentially defective products. This could be a real
problem if you are ordering mail order, Why should I or you pay
shipping charges on defective products?

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Where's the 'forum police' when you need them?
So many off-topic posts, yet they only complain about mine?
Nah, this couldn't be a personal vendetta.

 

[Chris Otto]

Most businesses will re-sell pristine equipment that is returned as new. If not, they would lose their profit margin on re-selling the items as used. Ever seen an open box at Home Depot, Target, etc. ?? How do you know it was not returned ??

Even cars have a return policy that they can be sold as new if they are returned in a certain number of days and certain number of miles. Buying a car soon ??

Chris

B+H has a very liberal return policy. You can return
anything,(almost), for any reason,(almost), within seven days. ...
Many business would not classify this
material as new, since it was previously sold.

--
----------------------
http://www.pbase.com/otto9000
See my profile for equipment.

 

[Scott Goosman]

There are companies that have great service putting service above suspicion. One such example is Home Depot, I just bought an expensive tool, used it and then found the unlock mechanism faulty. Went to exchange, they did not even care about the reason for exchange even though it had clearly been used. In fact they just returned the item allowing me to repurchase it if I want! Really that is impressive, plus you don't see used products that are not marked as returned.

Sorry companies like this set the gold standard that all others need to try to reach.

 

[Hank Lefcort]

I've bough camera equipment (several cameras, lenses, tripods, light meters, etc. from B&H for a very long time. I've never recieved any equipment that wasn't in pristine condition and in new condition in every respect. Whatever anyone has heard, B&H remains among the several 1st class sellers of photo equipment in this country.

Hank

If its defective should it be resold?

Sounds like a bad slippery slope. If the product is defective then
the product should be sent back to canon by B&H not repackaged and
sold again. B&H does not appear to adhere to such ideas and will
sell you potentially defective products. This could be a real
problem if you are ordering mail order, Why should I or you pay
shipping charges on defective products?

Scott