gianstam
Senior Member
Is it a Digital Era term?
If no, why so many people complain about the use of it.
And if yes, why so many people use it?
If no, why so many people complain about the use of it.
And if yes, why so many people use it?
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Do you know when the term FF began to be used?
- Thread starter gianstam
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meland
Guest
It's a digital era term.
People use it because the semantics of it makes them feel better. This was also when all the equivalency nonsense started.
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james b norman
Senior Member
with the advent of cropped sensor digital cameras. people were used to thinking of lens focal lengths in respect to regular 35mm (FF) film cameras, so when cropped sensor cameras came to the market, people stated using conversion factors to get an idea of what the "equivalent" focal length of various lenses were on the cropped sensor cameras compared to FF 35mm cameras.
tkbslc
Forum Pro
Some people like to be difficult even when they know exactly what it means.
tko
Forum Pro
To some, its nonsense when you don't understand it!
Gerry Winterbourne
Forum Pro
In the 1960s makers started producing "half frame" cameras http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-frame_camera I don't know for certain but I vaguely remember people using "full frame" as a way of emphasising that what they were using wasn't one of these "miniature" cameras.
APS film cameras also used smaller frame sizes, so again "full frame" might have been used to distinguish what people considered the standard size.
So I think the term "full frame" itself precedes the digital age but it has acquired a new shade of meaning in that era.
All the uses of the term I've mentioned derive from the use of 35mm (which was originally a cinema material). But, of course, cameras have used larger and smaller films and plates. Many people used to refer to their camera sizes by reference to the film they used : 135, 120, 127 and many other films; 4 x 5", 8 x 10" plates etc. As many of those sizes were bigger than 35mm film cameras, some people resent the fact that FF has been regarded as some sort of ultimate aspiration.
Because most people understand what it means and there isn't a simpler, better term for what it means.
Yes, there was likely no need to use a term like "full frame" until something that was not a FF came along. It's just like "film camera" would be meaningless if there weren't "digital cameras" - and indeed before the digital era, people simply called them "cameras" (and as digital cameras became so ubiquitous, it now means we are more likely to qualify film cameras with an adjective, rather than digital cameras).
So yes, I would put it down to Olympus launching the "half-frame" Pen F that sparked the invention of the term "full frame"
35mm film format is an older thing, that goes back to the cinema era. But FF is definitely down to the creation of the half-frame.
Except it's not. Movie full frame is in effect half frame (or smaller to accommodate sound tracks etc.) as it is shot at 90 degrees to still cameras.
Mike_PEAT
Forum Pro
As someone who used medium and x-large format film cameras, full frame is a made up term used to bolster up the psyche of those users to make them feel superior to anyone else.
In the film days it was 35mm or 135 format, and it was clear what was meant. There was also APS film, disc film, 110, 120, 126 film...not this full frame and crop sensor nonense!
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The term "Full Frame" started to be used around 1960, when Olympus brought out their first Half Frame cameras (Olympus Pen).
Half Frame is 18x24mm, close to APS-C (which is 25x17mm), and more or less identical to standard 35mm movie format as used before widescreen (or 70mm) became popular.
Movies such as "Casablanca", "Snow White" or "The Gold Rush" were shot on approximately 18x24mm frames. The sound track, if there is one, eats up a little of the picture area, leaving a frame of 18x21mm.
Most Half-frame still cameras shot vertical (portrait) photos, while 35mm Full Frame cameras such as Leicas shoot landscape format. Still cameras can of course be rotated.
Half Frame is 18x24mm, close to APS-C (which is 25x17mm), and more or less identical to standard 35mm movie format as used before widescreen (or 70mm) became popular.
Movies such as "Casablanca", "Snow White" or "The Gold Rush" were shot on approximately 18x24mm frames. The sound track, if there is one, eats up a little of the picture area, leaving a frame of 18x21mm.
Most Half-frame still cameras shot vertical (portrait) photos, while 35mm Full Frame cameras such as Leicas shoot landscape format. Still cameras can of course be rotated.
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However, this standard Academy size is what we now call Half Frame. The Leica camera took photos equal in area to two frames of 35mm movie negative.
And Olympus and other makers needed a way to tell you which size of photo a particular model took.
Correct.
The size of the film is the same, however it runs vertically in motion pictures cameras, horizontally in still film cameras hence the different size.
(Oscar Barnack at Leica used a piece of motion film for his first camera, but he wasn't the first to do so)
The same thing happened with "miniature" (spy) cameras using 16mm film.
Full Frame came about to describe a digital sensor of the same size as 35/135mm film cameras.
Never heard the term before that.
The size of the film is the same, however it runs vertically in motion pictures cameras, horizontally in still film cameras hence the different size.
(Oscar Barnack at Leica used a piece of motion film for his first camera, but he wasn't the first to do so)
The same thing happened with "miniature" (spy) cameras using 16mm film.
Full Frame came about to describe a digital sensor of the same size as 35/135mm film cameras.
Never heard the term before that.
Yes, but 35mm cameras such as Leicas were referred to as "miniature cameras" in the 1930s and 40s.
I know it from back when I was using both half frame and full frame film cameras.
Mark Smith145430
Veteran Member
So what was half frame 35mm? Crop cameras are only crop when the lens and camera is designed for larger films.
In the film days we had crop backs for medium format cameras I have a 35mm back for my Rolleiflex called a rolleikin.
So as someone who didn't just use 35mm and half-frame and understood the crop I got from my medium format I think you're not being entirely honest about those good 'ol days
So yes there were half frame and full frame 35mm cameras even in the 1960's!
Add to that 645 was introduced as half frame 6x9!
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Well I disagree.
I started to sell cameras in the late 70s and never heard of Full Frame then.
I am VERY familiar with the term Half Frame (I used them...) however the term was either 135 or 35mm never Full Frame .
Mind you sometime those silly sods using 2 1/4 cameras used to refer to 35mm as "miniature" but with a smirk on their face.
I started to sell cameras in the late 70s and never heard of Full Frame then.
I am VERY familiar with the term Half Frame (I used them...) however the term was either 135 or 35mm never Full Frame .
Mind you sometime those silly sods using 2 1/4 cameras used to refer to 35mm as "miniature" but with a smirk on their face.
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As long as millions of photographers around the world use lenses projecting a circle of 43mm in diameter with bodies with aps-c sensors, the terms "crop sensor" and "FF" will be popular. Learn to live with them.
Ed
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