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rrccad
Guest
are you talking the AA filter? ever hear of deconvolution sharpening?
that's not crippled - I'd say the person post processing is the one that's mentally crippled in this case.
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"Crippling" a product to "protect" higher end sales
- Thread starter Jonathan Brady
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that's not crippled - I'd say the person post processing is the one that's mentally crippled in this case.
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rrccad
Guest
I'm assuming you are talking about the EOS-3
let's do some math. the EOS-3 was released in 1998 for a MSRP of 185,000 Yen (1550 USD) or around 188,000 or so in today's Yen valuation (1600 or so USD)
hardly any electronics. no LCD, no sensor, no GUTS .. for 1600 bucks.
the canon 6D came out for around 10,000 Yen more than that - a measly 90 bucks.
the 6D also has wifi, gps, and a mydrid of other goodies that wasn't even in dreamland back then.
It did have 45 point AF - but it was the prototype body of that sort for canon before they moved it into the 1 series.
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rrccad
Guest
Rick Knepper
Forum Pro
Yeah, I know what you mean. A couple of guys having a reasonable discussion and someone barges in and goes all scorched earth on one or both of them.
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Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Mystery Gardner: "Rick, you have a passion for photography but not a position. That's a good thing." Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie
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Qwntm
Veteran Member
The only thing that worries me about Canon was that interview with the guy in charge of Canon at Photokina. When asked about the dynamic range competitiveness issue he said there wasn't any...
That's a bad sign, really bad.
That's a bad sign, really bad.
stratobill
Senior Member
Potemkin_Photo
Senior Member
Just tell them to release a mirrorless rebel with an EVF already.
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rrccad
Guest
what would be the point? it would actually be more expensive than the current rebels, the same size and the same weight.
Rick Knepper
Forum Pro
Rick Knepper
Forum Pro
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Albert Silver
Senior Member
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David Hull
Veteran Member
Couldn't agree more. Mostly people wondering why they crippled the Camry to make them buy a Lexus.
Rexgig0
Veteran Member
Perhaps not; if DR is not perceived as causing significant migration to other brands, and/or not causing beginners to choose brands other than Canon, then DR differences are not hurting Canon's marketplace competitiveness. I am not saying there is no DR difference, just that it may not (yet) be enough to hurt Canon's bottom line.
To be clear, I am not saying this as a Canon apologist, but as a dual-brand, Canon/Nikon shooter, who just bought a Canon 7D Mark II N, and is looking to add another Nikon FX camera in 2015 or 2016. I make no claim of being any kind of subject-matter expert, of course
I mostly use Canon DSLRs at work, usually at night, to shoot evidentiary/forensic images, which I upload as OOC JPEGs, no post-processing allowed. Exposing to the right or left, and being able to recover details from shadows, are irrelevant; if a shadow is not desired in the images, I either "paint" with hand-held light, during a long exposure, or deploy as many Speedlites as necessary during a normal exposure. (Actually, it is normal to make images that show a scene both with and without its shadows.)
If a Canon camera can make the images I need at work, then Canon should satisfy most consumers, with less-demanding needs. (This does not mean I claim to be a "pro" photographer, just that I shoot some very important images, for official purposes, as part of my larger duties.)
Of course, there are photographers who want or need Nikon's DR capability. Canon may simply be willing to concede that part of the market. When I buy a D810, or equivalent, in the next year or two, largely to start serious landscape shooting, well, Canon may be "losing" a sale, but they will not be losing a customer. (On the other hand, perhaps Canon will pleasantly surprise, with a much-improved sensor in the 5D-series.)
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I wear a badge and pistol, and make evidentiary images at night, which incorporates elements of portrait, macro, still life, landscape, architecture, and PJ. I enjoy using both Canons and Nikons.
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The Toyota analogy is way off. A camry is not crippled. It is a value for what it is and is meant to take marketshare from Nissan, Honda, etc. Not Lexus. Canon strategizes to maximize sales by limiting features for the most part based on cheaping, existing, available technology. Why can they do this? Little competition. AND a commitment to a "system". If I can get a Lexus for the price of Camry- great! If my property taxes go up and my neighborhood goes to hell.. I can move. Or express my disgust.
stratobill
Senior Member
First of all, I Understand what you are saying: by hyperbole you are insinuating that the OP was exaggerating the situation to make his point. I agree, and I don't necessarily think that Canon has crippled their cameras, they are probably just building to a price point. And no, I am not 100% satisfied with my 6D, but I got what I was expecting. And I hope they catch up to others in MP and DR soon.
Second, I do not intend to reread this entire thread, I believe I have understood the intent of the thread, and I don't need anyone sarcastically telling me I need to "reread the thread", or defining the thread for me. My point is simple: you implied that Canon could be more communicative and thus ease the pain of people who think the equipment is crippled. I disagreed and suggested that it is impractical, and as you say, probably desirable that they don't come here to disseminate information. As it is, a recent statement appears to have been made that implies that a higher MP sensor is coming from Canon. That's even more than I expected to hear.
Companies are under no obligation to provide us with what after all are company secrets. Maybe I have been conditioned to secrecy from my years of buying Apple products. When rumors of their new products come out, sales of current ones tend to drop. It would probably be the same with Canon- who would buy the current cameras under that scenario?
David Hull
Veteran Member
And... if you want the "fancy-Dan" feature set, you buy the Fancy-Dan camera and pay the Fancy-Dan price. These features have value, if they did not, you wouldn't be whining about them. All manufacturers do this, why not Canon. If you don't like this, you have options.
Anyone with a BS in Business would know that early adopters always pay a higher price. Mirrorless is dead in terms of sales everywhere but the US and JP. Canon was a little late and late entrants always struggle.
As far as the EOS-M, one important feature is "lock-in" IOW to those that already have Canon lenses, it's cheaper to buy an expensive EOS-M to go portable than anything else.
Where the screw up is - or the strategy that I think is pretty awesome is the launch of the 100D. EOS-M v 100D - two competing models for the low-weight, interchangeable lens systems. The 100D wins overall because it's a more mature system with long-term recognizable advantages in the face of a system that is struggling to make headway worldwide and also squeezing it at the other end with the G7x and G1x.
The map for excellent IQ cameras that are convenient looks like this: Compact: Canon wins, Low weight interchangeable - D100 Canon wins. Mirrorless - if you really want it and are a loyal Canon user - you can have something that uses your lenses as the manufacturer specifies- canon wins.
David Hull
Veteran Member
Of course but I was replying to your comment and voicing a general opinion about the "crippling" thing which I believe is nonsense. Any maker of a product has a right to receive payment for something they create which has value. Nobody is "crippling" anything they simply put the nicer features in the more expensive product.
The 5DIII AF system obviously has more value, why shouldn't they be able to charge more for the camera that has more value because of it. This whole "crippling" thing is bologna.
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meland
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