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it's still a 3MP camera
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Adam-T
Forum Pro
the 1D new in the UK costs £3300 = $5280 which is a ripoff considering people have been buying them from Dell for $3200 over in the USA - I paid £1800 ($2880USD) for a refurb which is £200 less than I paid for my D60 10 months ago!.
I suppose it's relative, the difference between the new UK price of a 1D and the Refurb price is the difference between a total ripoff and the biggest bang for buck since the blowout price of the Olympus E10 15 months ago (which was cheaper than a Sony 707 or a Dimage at the time) or the current price for a warrantied used mint D30 from a dealer (about £599)..
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Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist
The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->
http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/
IOWs, you had no idea Foeven counts one R, plus one G, plus one B, as a single pixel, while Canon count the same thing as three.
Of course, everyone has to decide for themselves. My point was that pro reviewers clearly have a vested interest in not upsetting their cash cows for the likes of Foveon-- at least not at this point.
You simply haven't read the thread. I'm not saying it would improve image quality. Go back and reread please.
I certainly was not. You've all completely missed the point. Obviously it makes no sense from an image quality standpoint to unstack the sensors mathematically. Could anything be more obvios? The point is to demonstate 10.2MP equivalency--thats all.
Zone8
Forum Pro
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What ever it is, the results are superb and as far as I am concerned, after extensive testing of many others, including the Canon D1s, it beats the lot as far as my needs are concerned.
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Zone8
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Zone8
Joseph S Wisniewski
Forum Pro
I'll address Dominic's posts in a minute. I remembered an interesting paper where a scientific photographer was trying to use CA to derive spectra in plant photographs, and came across this really interesting bit about an astronomer using CA to derive spectra of stars.
http://home.freeuk.com/m.gavin/chromab.htm
Isn't that just too cool?
Although a wedge prism in front of the sensor could perform the same function, very easily and cheaply.
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Ciao!
Joe
http://home.freeuk.com/m.gavin/chromab.htm
Isn't that just too cool?
Unfortunatly, that's not really possible the way a Foveon sensor works. The layers have to be aligned because the only way to sense the well voltage is differentially between layers.
Although a wedge prism in front of the sensor could perform the same function, very easily and cheaply.
I think that was a bug, demosaicing data that wasn't mosaiced to begin with.
Looking at raw files and SPP files, I've concluded that SPP does sharpen a bit, as well as doing something weird with a diagonal kernal that I haven't unscrambled yet.
It can.
Of course.
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Ciao!
Joe
MdjHtown
Senior Member
Exactly,
I've read this thread with growing amazement. And I wonder what is really going on here. But then I realized. Say you just forked out a couple of grand for a new digital SLR. Say you bought the 10D or worse forked out more grands for a 1DS. Then this camera comes along that is way cheaper and actually gives them all a run for their money. What will be your first reaction ? .... Exactly. Denial. It can't be. Something is wrong ....
I am surprised they even read this forum. They wouldn't if they weren't intrigued with the quality of the images from this camera.
Cheers y'all.
And now shut up and go shoot some ...
Pictures that is ....
Can't help but think that many a frustrated Canon owner are also NRA members ...
Oops. The jury will disregard that statement !
Cheers Y'all,
Marcel
I've read this thread with growing amazement. And I wonder what is really going on here. But then I realized. Say you just forked out a couple of grand for a new digital SLR. Say you bought the 10D or worse forked out more grands for a 1DS. Then this camera comes along that is way cheaper and actually gives them all a run for their money. What will be your first reaction ? .... Exactly. Denial. It can't be. Something is wrong ....
I am surprised they even read this forum. They wouldn't if they weren't intrigued with the quality of the images from this camera.
Cheers y'all.
And now shut up and go shoot some ...
Pictures that is ....
Can't help but think that many a frustrated Canon owner are also NRA members ...
Oops. The jury will disregard that statement !
Cheers Y'all,
Marcel
Stephen Waits
Senior Member
If that's what you want to believe fine.. the argument is dead, it was when you first started it, and now it's really over.
Now we're just lauging at your stubborn ignorance.. hahahhh.. hoohahaha..
--Steve
Dominic Groß
Veteran Member
Hmm now here we go again after my first reply to this went to dev/null because of Phils lousy windows server. Uhm okay it went to the recycle bin or however this is called in windows.....
Maybe we should search for someone who is good in disassembling
Dominic
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http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Yes, very nifty
Well but in the first versions with the different edges positions there was no demosaicing and now there is this smoothing. The sharpness was much closer to SPP before this smoothing was added.
Could this explain the jaggies?
Maybe we should search for someone who is good in disassembling
Dominic
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http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Just Looking
Veteran Member
???
Joe, are you saying there's a new JCIA guideline? or that the "foveon x3 pixel page" has mischaracterized what it says? see here:
http://www.x3f.info/technotes/x3pixel/pixelpage.html
Sigma ads have been saying "10.2 million something", where something has been photo detectors, pixel sensors, and things like that. Have they ever marketed with a "megapixels" number? either 3.4 or 10.2? not that I know of.
j
Illustrate your maturity level all you want, it won't change the fact that you didn't know 6MP 10D images are interpolated up from only 2MP of full color information. The SD9 could do the same, but chooses not to. Just as Canon could form single pixels by integrating groups of full color sensors and producing a non-interpolated 2MP image, the SD-9 could interpolate up to 10.2MP to produce the same blurry artifact prone image using Bayer algorithms. Sigma should provide the option just to make that point.
Every ad I've seen is quite clear, saying 3.5MP using 10.2M photosites.
Dominic Groß
Veteran Member
One big shop here is advertising it as 10mp but this is certainly not Sigmas fault. But the censored of Sigma Germany could be censored enough to tell them that it is 10mp....
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http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page
ICQ UIN: 289647506
Its more than denial, its business. Pro reviewers' livelyhoods depend on playing ball with the influential players. Look at the samples on this very site, the pics make the reality painfully clear, but the conclusions are surprisingly understated. Here is the sample posted...
http://www.pbase.com/imageprocessing
And here is the discussion...
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"you can see the SD9 image looks sharp and detailed, it's difficult to find any part of the EOS-D60 image which is actually exhibiting more detail than the SD9 and in some places the SD9 manages to pull out detail lost on the EOS-D60. Color balance is similar although it's worth noting the SD9 loses the color at the golden tip of the towers (color clipping problem). You'll also note that I'm not doing any additional processing, you could of course apply an unsharp mask to the EOS-D60 image to improve sharpness (although also introduce new artifacts and amplify noise).
Theoretical reasons why the SD9 images are sharper / exhibit better resolution:
- No interpolation between surrounding pixels, each pixel has its own luminance / color detail
- No low pass (anti-alias filter) to blur detail beyond the Nyquist frequency
- Pixel pitch is larger therefore lens is more capable of delivering adequate resolution "
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"Theoretically" better res? Come on, anyone can see it so just say it, there is no contest between the samples posted. The difference in the crop-pair showing redish tones on bluish (worst case for Bayer interpolated images vs non-interpolated images) is nothing short of stunning...
(6th pair from thee top)
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When I said "every ad" I actually meant every Sigma ad. I have seen shops listing the SD-9 as 10.2MP. Then again, they also advertise the 10D as 6MP, without noting that is an interpolated res, so its really only fair.
Ladehaug
Senior Member
It doesn't work that way. A 10Mp bayer image will in most cases resolve a lot more detail than a 3.4Mp Foveon image. However, the sharpness of a Foveon image resembles what you can get by downsizing a bayer image 50% (to 1/4 of its initial megapixel count). Sharpness and spatial resolution are two different issues.
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Geir
Ladehaug
Senior Member
Thanks, that explains a lot.
IMO, the sharpness/aliasing does not disturb the picture at all in most cases. I find that bayer interpolation, on the average, introduces more disturbing artifacts. Of course, the Foveon sensor with an AA filter would be desirable in some cases, but I think it would seriously hamper the sharpness and spatial resolution - something that would not be desirable for a 3.4Mp sensor. I do not know much about AA filters, so I might be wrong. But it I'm sure it would not come cheap to implement and manufacture a high quality AA filter for the Foveon sensor.
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Geir
I understand exactly what you are saying, but again, Sigma should provide the option just to make that point.
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