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it's still a 3MP camera

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Adam-T said:
Agreed Mark - People just think "Megapixels" , I hate that, the 1D
can outresolve the damn lot of them (short of a 1DS of course) and
is only 4Mp , in that case, it's down to a large sensor, large
pixels and a weak AA filter !.
Click to expand...
And thats also the reason why the X3 resolves that much, it won't suffer from moires therefore there is no AA filter.
Adam-T said:
Clickdot has stirred up a hornets nest here, I just wish that he'd
test out a 10D, D100, SD9 and S2 and buy ONE of them!.
Click to expand...
Well he could also refer to the lot of resolution tests out there on the web. The attitudes of people lick Clickdot caused shops here in Germany to advertise the SD9 as a 10mp Camera. People would simply not buy a 3.5mp Camera. It is the same thing that happens in the CPU sector were people only look on mhz ratings.
Adam-T said:
Hopefully after all this, other Canon owners (like myself) will be
still welcome to discuss Sigma lenses with the SD9 owners and not
seen as Trolls.
Click to expand...
People that behave reasonable and don't start of with silly cr@p like clickdot did are, at least from my point of view, always welcome. Depending on the situation all current Cameras have their pros and cons and considering the price of the SD9 and realizing that some of its shortcommings are not as bad as some want to make us believe is the way to go.

And it is really sad to see how big shops all over the world bundle the SD9 with the cheap sigma Lenses....

Dominic
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page :)
ICQ UIN: 289647506
 
Dominic Groß said:
in Germany to advertise the SD9 as a 10mp Camera. People would
simply not buy a 3.5mp Camera. It is the same thing that happens in
the CPU sector were people only look on mhz ratings.
Click to expand...
Yep - People SHOULD try before they buy, I never disregard anything out of hand, if Cosina made a Killer £80 17mm Prime I'd give it a good go with a totally open mind!. there are People out there who think that a 5Mp Happycam can outresolve a 1D or SD9 -- Err Yeah!.
Dominic Groß said:
And it is really sad to see how big shops all over the world bundle
the SD9 with the cheap sigma Lenses....
Click to expand...
Over here they tend to either get bundled with the excellent 15-30 or the attrocious 17-35 - I just prey that they pay the bit extra and go for the 15-30 deal for their own sakes ;-)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

 
This is the same as I posted at canon forum regarding my photo of bryce canyon, and for click-dot-inc whatever camera you choose to buy, go take some great photos, share with us and enjoy.

About the colors in "december morning in bryce canyon". I was there
from before sunrise to one hour after sunrise. the color changed
from pale pink at sunrise to the orange color shown. i like the
orange color better so I pick that one for pbase. even though
the shadows at sunrise were more dramatic. the color stands out
because of the snow. there was no need to saturate colors. you
should see some of the pictures of bryce canyon for sale to tourists if
you want to see what saturated colors look like. the problem i
had taking this picture was keeping the batteries warm,
it was very cold!
Seng
clickdotinc said:
Hi Lawrence,

Actually, I have decided to go with with the SD9, until Tim Martin
in the Canon forum pointed out in my "hot" thread over there that
the SD9 colors being not so true to real life. And I looked again,
and realized he has a point.

Can you educate me on this issue.

I like the details and crispiness of the SD9 images, they seem to
speak to you. The colors are a bit more "lively", which make the
pictures so attractive, but seem a bit "not so true". Am I
imagining things here ?

I do see the super sharpnening of the D10 and the others, that SD9
do not display. And it may not be to the right taste in some cases,
but in other cases such sharpness may help strengthen the themes.

So I say each one has its own advantages.

As for colors, we can always adjust to the right profiles, is that
correct ?
Click to expand...
 
MANY OF THE "PRO" COMMENTS POSTED HERE ARE NON-SENSE

and here is why. They obviously do not understand the underlying technology and implications. The Faveon X3 10MP truly approaches Medium Format quality without film grain. They may have photo expertise, but they lack the knowledge in the technology aspect.

The pro comments here have been comparing apples to oranges, claiming 3.54MP is not high enough. 3.54MP equates to 10MP or more, but with much higher quality than a 10MP camera.

I have taken Sigma/Faveon photos which are 3.54MP in "size" which represented in Photoshop an 8.4" x 12.6" image at 180 dpi. I then enlarged it to 26.667" x 40" at 180 dpi. This took the raw image from 9.1MB to 98.6MB in file size (uncompressed) and took my breath away. The image remain crisp, vibrant and consistent - virtually no signs of interpolation.

You see, the Faveon/Sigma takes true RGB images - it does not "guess" or calculate colors and pixels, so it has the inherent quality advantages of film. However, it has advantages over film because it has no film grain and it is first generation digital. Film must be digitized in some manner that removes a generation and although high end scanners do good work, it is never first generation.

http://www.photo.net/sigma/sd9

So, my friends, take my word - THIS IS THE FUTURE OF PHOTOGRAPHY - not just digital, but all photography. Just as the typewriter has given way to the word processor, the large percentage of photographic application will fall to this type of technology and replace a large amount of film - leaving film to the enthusiast.

Think about this. Faveon's X3 10MP (3.54MP) is like medium format. But Faveon has successfully tested a 16MP system. Folks, this technology will overtake 35mm, medium and large format in 5-7 years.

I have never seen images with such detail that can be enlarged like film with virtually no loss - barely any softening and crisp, clean edges, no moire patterns or distortions.

-- John Nibarger, May 10, 2003
 
'Ozy' said:
Three 17-35 f2.8-4's all of which were very soft and one had a bad
color cast. The only good lens i've had luck with is my friends
15-30. That seems to be a good lens. I like Sigma's Macro 50mm
too.

Check this comparision of a center crop with no sharpening of the
Canon 16-35L vs the 17-35 both at 17mm f2.8. Canon on the left,
sigma on the right. Sad, isn't it?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't put my money on the 17-35 or the 20-40, unless you want to risc having a circus with Sigma. The 15-30 is a safer choice. Unfortunately the 15-30 does not have proper filter thread.

-
Geir
 
clickdotinc said:
Actually, I have decided to go with with the SD9, until Tim Martin
in the Canon forum pointed out in my "hot" thread over there that
the SD9 colors being not so true to real life. And I looked again,
and realized he has a point.
Click to expand...
You are right. The SD9 color can be seriously off. Fortunately, in most cases, they can be fixed with some proper adjustments. Unfortunately, you can't do that with the Sigma Photo Pro software.
clicks said:
Can you educate me on this issue.

I like the details and crispiness of the SD9 images, they seem to
speak to you. The colors are a bit more "lively", which make the
pictures so attractive, but seem a bit "not so true". Am I
imagining things here ?
Click to expand...
The crispiness is first of all related to the sharpness.
clicks said:
I do see the super sharpnening of the D10 and the others, that SD9
do not display. And it may not be to the right taste in some cases,
but in other cases such sharpness may help strengthen the themes.
Click to expand...
Sharpening a bayer image can make crispy images. However, it is difficult to make them look as realistic as a native SD9 image, unless you downsize them at least 50% (to 1/4 of the initial megapixel size).

-
Geir
 
We have dust issues but nothing on the scale of C/N/F shooters. Sigma could have done better job on the sensor cover and probably on manufacturing q/c. But having shot an S1 out in the desert, my number one criterea when I replace it was "IT'S GOT TO HAVE A DUST PROTECTOR". I am very very happy that I not only got a dust protector, even though it isn't "infallible" but that I also got a system that is superb!!
(had to throw that in).

Learn how to clean your sensor. There are some very light spots that I haven't figured how to clean. It seems like the sensor needs to be "soaked" in order to get them off. They are not noticeable unless I am testing the sensor for dirt.

--

.......Feel The Power.........Sigma.....SD9..........

http://www.lightreflection.com
http://www.silveroaksranch.com
http://www.pbase.com/rickdecker
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/user_home
 
sg10 said:
You are exactly right, and so am I. The Foveon could mimic a Bayer
layout mathematically, just as a Bayer mimics a Foveon
mathematically.
Click to expand...
The Foveon can measure the correct and accurate luminance level at every single pixel site. A bayer sensor cannot measure the correct luminance at any single pixel site at all. The bayer has to interpolate (guess, assume) 2/3 of its entire data set. That makes a difference that can be seen and felt when looking at a good SD9 image.

-
Geir
 
Adam-T said:
Over here they tend to either get bundled with the excellent 15-30
or the attrocious 17-35 - I just prey that they pay the bit extra
and go for the 15-30 deal for their own sakes ;-)
Click to expand...
Some days ago there was big add in the newspaper of a chain that operates in whole Germany and really lots of people buy there. SD9 and 24-70mm/f3.5-5.6. I wondered what type of gras they smoke....

--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page :)
ICQ UIN: 289647506
 
Both could measure the correct sharp Luminance Data in all positions. BUT the Bayer need an AA filter in order not get moire, thats why they get blurred luminance data. What you mean is that they don't get the chrominace data for every single pixel. The X3 gets it and the Bayer has to guess 2/3 of it.

Dominic
Ladehaug said:
Ladehaug said:
You are exactly right, and so am I. The Foveon could mimic a Bayer
layout mathematically, just as a Bayer mimics a Foveon
mathematically.
Click to expand...
The Foveon can measure the correct and accurate luminance level at
every single pixel site. A bayer sensor cannot measure the correct
luminance at any single pixel site at all. The bayer has to
interpolate (guess, assume) 2/3 of its entire data set. That makes
a difference that can be seen and felt when looking at a good SD9
image.

-
Geir
Click to expand...
--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page :)
ICQ UIN: 289647506
 
Ladehaug said:
Ladehaug said:
I do see the super sharpnening of the D10 and the others, that SD9
do not display. And it may not be to the right taste in some cases,
but in other cases such sharpness may help strengthen the themes.
Click to expand...
Sharpening a bayer image can make crispy images. However, it is
difficult to make them look as realistic as a native SD9 image,
unless you downsize them at least 50% (to 1/4 of the initial
megapixel size).
Click to expand...
Also this crispness will not bring the details back the Bayer Sensor misses. Small fine detail is blured away by the AA filter of the Bayer Cameras and to make it even worser they are not adequatly captured by the bayer pattern.

--
http://www.domgross.de
please don't run away because of the cheap design of the first page :)
ICQ UIN: 289647506
 
Ladehaug said:
Ladehaug said:
You are exactly right, and so am I. The Foveon could mimic a Bayer
layout mathematically, just as a Bayer mimics a Foveon
mathematically.
Click to expand...
The Foveon can measure the correct and accurate luminance level at
every single pixel site. A bayer sensor cannot measure the correct
luminance at any single pixel site at all. The bayer has to
interpolate (guess, assume) 2/3 of its entire data set. That makes
a difference that can be seen and felt when looking at a good SD9
image.
Click to expand...
I'm just pointing out that Sigma could present pro reviewers with an impossible quandry very easilty. They could include an SPP output module that derives a true 10.2MP image from sensor data using techniques that exactly mirror the way Bayers interpolate--simply by using RAW RGB color data in the same way--picking points between the center points of photosites and combining adjacent data to form a color.

Would it be a better image? No, of course not. Would it force the SD-9 into the true 10.2MP category? Yes. They would have no choice.
 
Dominic Groß said:
Some days ago there was big add in the newspaper of a chain that
operates in whole Germany and really lots of people buy there. SD9
and 24-70mm/f3.5-5.6. I wondered what type of gras they smoke....
Click to expand...
hehe..

Well, if I had to choose one or two lenses to begin with, I would go for a prime, either the 20 or the 50. The 50 is an excellent lens and would be perfect for macros as well. The 20 is reasonably wide (equivalent to 34mm) and has a decent filter thread as well. I know these lenses have great potential, and I want the best from the start. I wouldn't be able to zoom, but that's not so important to me and the type of photography I do.

-
Geir
 
Dominic Groß said:
Some days ago there was big add in the newspaper of a chain that
operates in whole Germany and really lots of people buy there. SD9
and 24-70mm/f3.5-5.6. I wondered what type of gras they smoke....
Click to expand...
I tried one of those, it was utter JUNK! as bad as the Canon 28-90USM and THAT is saying something, I got given a 28-80 Aspherical Macro a while back , it STANK as a zoom but when jammed into Macro mode it wasn't half bad and I passed it on as such ;-)

Believe it or not, the 28-70 F2.8-4 cheapo when stopped down is quite decent , we're not talking 28-70EX DF here but usable for £90 !!

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

The No1 Dedicated 1D forum in the UK -------->

http://www.1dforum.co.uk/php/phpBB2/

 
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