Deciding over a 5D Mk3 or my second 6D?

hiki08 · Oct 19, 2014

So I've been using the 6D since the second day it was out. Almost 2 years now and I've been enjoying it absolutely. The most often heard complaint about the 6D is its focus points which doesn't bother me since I've always focus-recomposed using centre-point (until I recently got a 85 f/1.2 which I now have to use those rather hideous side focus points).

The reason I'm considering a second FF camera is because, well, for family (who know how to use it but aren't too bothered by either) to use it while travelling together. The new camera would share my current lens line up (which are not particularly APS-C friendly in terms of focal length; 85 f/1.2 is my only large aperture lens at the moment).

Logically, I would think about getting the 5D Mk iii as I already have a 6D but I am hard pressed to find any reviews that say its image quality is any better than the 6D. I do not take videos (or have a high standard for them). Having held the 5D in my hand it feels quite significantly heavier (180g). It's also almost twice the price of a 6D. But it feels silly getting a second 6D after 2 years. (Canon is also doing a decent deal having the option to add approx USD$120 for the 600EX-RT speedlite when purchasing the 5D, and which can potentially introduce slavery to my 430EX II, or should I save some money and share one flash even if I go for the 5D?)

The most persuasive reasons I could think of that would sway me to a 5D Mk3 is better image quality (sharpness, dynamic range..) or better high ISO performance. None of which seem to be evident.

Should the excuse of my 85 f/1.2 and its need for better focusing points be a reason for the 5D over the 6D or should I save the money for other things (such as a 70-300L I'm considering - which I could almost get with the price difference). Are there other reasons that are swaying people to a 5D?

(I've also realised the 6D prices have dropped some 30% since it was released, how painful! Though it seems like the 5D prices have dropped too)

ASR45 · Oct 19, 2014

Hi, im in the same boat as you more or less, two years ago when it first came out i bought the 6D and never looked back i love it. Further on three weeks ago i decided on the 5DMk3 because of the better AF, i must say i like that to, as for being better than the 6D in terms of IQ, DR, and ISO i give the edge to the 6D.

I have decided to sell the 5DMK3 because the 7D MK2 has more and would benefit me better for wildlife shooting. I still have the 6D in which i will keep for the high ISO stuff, but the 7D Mk2 is just to tempting to pass. Good luck in your decision.

Albert Silver · Oct 19, 2014

hiki08 said:
So I've been using the 6D since the second day it was out. Almost 2 years now and I've been enjoying it absolutely. The most often heard complaint about the 6D is its focus points which doesn't bother me since I've always focus-recomposed using centre-point (until I recently got a 85 f/1.2 which I now have to use those rather hideous side focus points).

The reason I'm considering a second FF camera is because, well, for family (who know how to use it but aren't too bothered by either) to use it while travelling together. The new camera would share my current lens line up (which are not particularly APS-C friendly in terms of focal length; 85 f/1.2 is my only large aperture lens at the moment).

Logically, I would think about getting the 5D Mk iii as I already have a 6D but I am hard pressed to find any reviews that say its image quality is any better than the 6D. I do not take videos (or have a high standard for them). Having held the 5D in my hand it feels quite significantly heavier (180g). It's also almost twice the price of a 6D. But it feels silly getting a second 6D after 2 years. (Canon is also doing a decent deal having the option to add approx USD$120 for the 600EX-RT speedlite when purchasing the 5D, and which can potentially introduce slavery to my 430EX II, or should I save some money and share one flash even if I go for the 5D?)

The most persuasive reasons I could think of that would sway me to a 5D Mk3 is better image quality (sharpness, dynamic range..) or better high ISO performance. None of which seem to be evident.

Should the excuse of my 85 f/1.2 and its need for better focusing points be a reason for the 5D over the 6D or should I save the money for other things (such as a 70-300L I'm considering - which I could almost get with the price difference). Are there other reasons that are swaying people to a 5D?

(I've also realised the 6D prices have dropped some 30% since it was released, how painful! Though it seems like the 5D prices have dropped too)

Another option would be to get an APS-C Canon (T4i/T5i or 70D), toss in a decent 'kit' lens like the Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS or the Tamron equivalent with VC, and leave it at that. It would come out cheaper and you could still lend/use your Canon lenses. There are regular deals on these cameras.

hiki08 · Oct 19, 2014

ASR45 said:
Hi, im in the same boat as you more or less, two years ago when it first came out i bought the 6D and never looked back i love it. Further on three weeks ago i decided on the 5DMk3 because of the better AF, i must say i like that to, as for being better than the 6D in terms of IQ, DR, and ISO i give the edge to the 6D.

I have decided to sell the 5DMK3 because the 7D MK2 has more and would benefit me better for wildlife shooting. I still have the 6D in which i will keep for the high ISO stuff, but the 7D Mk2 is just to tempting to pass. Good luck in your decision.

bhollis · Oct 19, 2014

hiki08 said:
So I've been using the 6D since the second day it was out. Almost 2 years now and I've been enjoying it absolutely. The most often heard complaint about the 6D is its focus points which doesn't bother me since I've always focus-recomposed using centre-point (until I recently got a 85 f/1.2 which I now have to use those rather hideous side focus points).

The reason I'm considering a second FF camera is because, well, for family (who know how to use it but aren't too bothered by either) to use it while travelling together. The new camera would share my current lens line up (which are not particularly APS-C friendly in terms of focal length; 85 f/1.2 is my only large aperture lens at the moment).

Logically, I would think about getting the 5D Mk iii as I already have a 6D but I am hard pressed to find any reviews that say its image quality is any better than the 6D. I do not take videos (or have a high standard for them). Having held the 5D in my hand it feels quite significantly heavier (180g). It's also almost twice the price of a 6D. But it feels silly getting a second 6D after 2 years. (Canon is also doing a decent deal having the option to add approx USD$120 for the 600EX-RT speedlite when purchasing the 5D, and which can potentially introduce slavery to my 430EX II, or should I save some money and share one flash even if I go for the 5D?)

The most persuasive reasons I could think of that would sway me to a 5D Mk3 is better image quality (sharpness, dynamic range..) or better high ISO performance. None of which seem to be evident.

Should the excuse of my 85 f/1.2 and its need for better focusing points be a reason for the 5D over the 6D or should I save the money for other things (such as a 70-300L I'm considering - which I could almost get with the price difference). Are there other reasons that are swaying people to a 5D?

(I've also realised the 6D prices have dropped some 30% since it was released, how painful! Though it seems like the 5D prices have dropped too)

You won't get better IQ with the 5D3. What you will get is more in-focus shots with your 85 f/1.2, particularly if you're using peripheral AF points. Is that worth the extra cost? Only you can decide.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend buying a 5D3 right now unless you really need it. Although this is somewhat speculative, I expect we'll see a 5D4 within the next year or so. And I'm sure it will have better IQ than the 6D. How much better, and in what ways, I'm less sure of.

grammieb14 · Oct 19, 2014

I don't have a 6D, but I love my 5Dlll. In a static situation, I think they are about equal. I love to shoot wildlife, including bif & sporting events as well as indoor high ISO situations. The 5Dlll can handle all of the above with ease. I have had the 5Dll & other cameras with an af system similar to the 6D. The image quality is never as good if your subject is not in focus & the 5Dlll will get a lot more of moving subjects in focus than the 6D will. That is important to me. Bab

Timbukto · Oct 19, 2014

Honestly 85mm 1.2 wide open is such an outlier in performance that you would still need to fully test the 5DMKIII to see if it gives you the performance 'upgrade' you would expect.

IMO I would be certain it gives a good benefit for f2.8 and f4 zooms (as there are *plenty* of f4 baseline PDAF x-type sensors all over). The thing about f1.2 wide open on an 85 however is that it is such an extreme in shallow DOF, it needs to be tested to see if the outerpoints meet your expectations.

IMO however you could also just focus and recompose off an outer point of a 6D. If you are relying on the outer point of the 5DMKIII to 100% nail it, than that is up to the precision of *all* points and not just center, the baseline aperture each sensor can detect, and how well you tuned MFA, etc.

The Canon 6D outer points are 'workable'...IMO I only get the best use out of them after training my senses (sight and hearing) to detect hesitation out of the outer points (which is a frequent occurrence) for which I try to change things up to remove that hesitation or take more than one shot, etc. I can not use them blindly without experience...part of getting higher accuracy out of the outer points have always been to gauge its hesitation. If it is hesitating a lot without much shift in movement, I don't expect the greatest of results in 1 shot.

This outer point thing is something I don't really worry about with say the Sony A6000.

hotdog321 · Oct 19, 2014

I read your post a couple of times and am still not certain why you want a second camera. But since you love the 6D so much, I would go ahead and get another one. If you are lending it to family members (?), you already know all the ideal settings and handling techniques.

I always buy two identical camera bodies (5D III at this time), but I shoot photos for a living. I like my assignments to have matched color, contrast, IQ, etc. across the entire shoot and I never fumble a setting if things get hectic.

But I, too, am interested in the new 7D II. I may get one just for sports and to have a 1.6X crop sensor. I'm waiting for some real world feedback before buying.

TravelPhotog · Oct 19, 2014

hiki08 said:
Should the excuse of my 85 f/1.2 and its need for better focusing points be a reason for the 5D over the 6D or should I save the money for other things (such as a 70-300L I'm considering - which I could almost get with the price difference). Are there other reasons that are swaying people to a 5D?

No, the excuse of your 85 f/1.2 is not a reason to spend more than a thousand extra dollars over another 6D. It's true that you'll never be happy with a f/1.2 lens on your 6d ~ can't focus and recompose and can't consistently rely on anything other than the center point.

You might not like this suggestion, but sell your 85 f/1.2. There was nothing in your post that gave the impression this specialty lens is a necessity to you, and it's an incredibly expensive lens just to have it to have it. Buy lenses that you will use regularly and without so much frustration. Plus, selling it will pay for your 2nd 6D.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression that your ownership of the 85mm f/1.2 might be the result of GAS.

And, if you're using this lens to photograph family (moving family), you'll always hate it. Focus is incredibly slow and requires stationary subject. The 85mm f/1.8 will focus much, much faster if you really feel you need this focal length.

Dennis

Flying Fish · Oct 19, 2014

You will not get better IQ or better high-ISO performance with the 5D3 over the 6D. If anything, the 6D is slightly better; certainly it focuses in dimmer light with the center AF point. (The camera can see in the dark!) If you have good reason to have 2 bodies for the same kind of photography (are you sure you do?), there's no good reason for them not to be the same, and there are good reasons they should be the same. But if you want to expand into other kinds of photography, then think about what the second body should be. As others have said, the about-to-be-released 7D Mark II looks pretty impressive, especially for action. It's a crop camera but it can use any lens that fits on your 6D (the reverse is not true). The 70D is another option to consider and it's less expensive than the 7D2.

Good luck.

FF

Rakumi · Oct 19, 2014

If it makes a difference, the 85mm 1.8 focuses faster from what reviews say.

Albert Silver · Oct 19, 2014

Rakumi said:
If it makes a difference, the 85mm 1.8 focuses faster from what reviews say.

Reviews criticize the focusing speed?? I always found it very fast.

Rakumi · Oct 19, 2014

I do not have experience with the 85mm L lens but i have seen forum people speak on it having slower focus speed than the 85 1.8 as well as on digitalrev on youtube.

Albert Silver · Oct 19, 2014

Rakumi said:
I do not have experience with the 85mm L lens but i have seen forum people speak on it having slower focus speed than the 85 1.8 as well as on digitalrev on youtube.

My bad. I misunderstood and thought you were criticizing the focusing speed of the 85/1.8, which I own and would be hard pressed to find any fault in its focusing speed.

Rick Knepper · Oct 19, 2014

There are many tweaks to features in the 5D3 over the 6D. Since the 5D3 came out before the 6D, I will not use the 'C' word to describe the differences.

Some tweaks are major but many of them are 'minor' but could be major if it helps make things easier for you.

I am like you, I focus/recompose most of the time when handheld and using PDAF. I try to use a tripod and LV whenever I can. So, let's talk about one of the other major differences, fps rate. Shooting with 6 fps is worlds apart from shooting with 4.5 (my D800E is 4 but feels like 3

). I shoot brackets no matter how, what or where I shoot. Being able to run through the whole "clip" at 6 fps is major IMO.

If you use center point only, then there is an AF setup for removing all of the AF points except the center point the surrounding helper points.

The 5D3 has more resolution.

OTOH, the 6D is light and is a joy to wield. I think they make a fantastic tandem.

hiki08 said:
So I've been using the 6D since the second day it was out. Almost 2 years now and I've been enjoying it absolutely. The most often heard complaint about the 6D is its focus points which doesn't bother me since I've always focus-recomposed using centre-point (until I recently got a 85 f/1.2 which I now have to use those rather hideous side focus points).

The reason I'm considering a second FF camera is because, well, for family (who know how to use it but aren't too bothered by either) to use it while travelling together. The new camera would share my current lens line up (which are not particularly APS-C friendly in terms of focal length; 85 f/1.2 is my only large aperture lens at the moment).

Logically, I would think about getting the 5D Mk iii as I already have a 6D but I am hard pressed to find any reviews that say its image quality is any better than the 6D. I do not take videos (or have a high standard for them). Having held the 5D in my hand it feels quite significantly heavier (180g). It's also almost twice the price of a 6D. But it feels silly getting a second 6D after 2 years. (Canon is also doing a decent deal having the option to add approx USD$120 for the 600EX-RT speedlite when purchasing the 5D, and which can potentially introduce slavery to my 430EX II, or should I save some money and share one flash even if I go for the 5D?)

The most persuasive reasons I could think of that would sway me to a 5D Mk3 is better image quality (sharpness, dynamic range..) or better high ISO performance. None of which seem to be evident.

Should the excuse of my 85 f/1.2 and its need for better focusing points be a reason for the 5D over the 6D or should I save the money for other things (such as a 70-300L I'm considering - which I could almost get with the price difference). Are there other reasons that are swaying people to a 5D?

(I've also realised the 6D prices have dropped some 30% since it was released, how painful! Though it seems like the 5D prices have dropped too)

rebel99 · Oct 20, 2014

Rick Knepper said:
There are many tweaks to features in the 5D3 over the 6D. Since the 5D3 came out before the 6D, I will not use the 'C' word to describe the differences. Some tweaks are major but many of them are 'minor' but could be major if it helps make things easier for you.

I am like you, I focus/recompose most of the time when handheld and using PDAF. I try to use a tripod and LV whenever I can. So, let's talk about one of the other major differences, fps rate. Shooting with 6 fps is worlds apart from shooting with 4.5 (my D800E is 4 but feels like 3 ). I shoot brackets no matter how, what or where I shoot. Being able to run through the whole "clip" at 6 fps is major IMO.

If you use center point only, then there is an AF setup for removing all of the AF points except the center point the surrounding helper points.

The 5D3 has more resolution.

OTOH, the 6D is light and is a joy to wield. I think they make a fantastic tandem.

resolution between the 2 is not that much different to make a fundamental difference. funny, i have seen a few people do bif with 6D in some of these threads but i don't think it should be used specifically as such, on the other hand, i wouldn't hesitate to use 5D3 for birding. i think 6 fps will suffice for that task. most people that i have noticed use their 6D as landscape, cityscape, wedding (high iso), portrait, or situation that doesn't require rapid shooting. personally i think having both 6D and 5D3 is a bit redundant but everybody's mileage may differ ;-)

cheerz.

Rick Knepper · Oct 20, 2014

rebel99 said:
Rick Knepper said:

There are many tweaks to features in the 5D3 over the 6D. Since the 5D3 came out before the 6D, I will not use the 'C' word to describe the differences. Some tweaks are major but many of them are 'minor' but could be major if it helps make things easier for you.

I am like you, I focus/recompose most of the time when handheld and using PDAF. I try to use a tripod and LV whenever I can. So, let's talk about one of the other major differences, fps rate. Shooting with 6 fps is worlds apart from shooting with 4.5 (my D800E is 4 but feels like 3 ). I shoot brackets no matter how, what or where I shoot. Being able to run through the whole "clip" at 6 fps is major IMO.

If you use center point only, then there is an AF setup for removing all of the AF points except the center point the surrounding helper points.

The 5D3 has more resolution.

OTOH, the 6D is light and is a joy to wield. I think they make a fantastic tandem.

Click to expand...

resolution between the 2 is not that much different to make a fundamental difference. funny, i have seen a few people do bif with 6D in some of these threads but i don't think it should be used specifically as such, on the other hand, i wouldn't hesitate to use 5D3 for birding. i think 6 fps will suffice for that task. most people that i have noticed use their 6D as landscape, cityscape, wedding (high iso), portrait, or situation that doesn't require rapid shooting. personally i think having both 6D and 5D3 is a bit redundant but everybody's mileage may differ ;-)

cheerz.

Well...there are those of us who use two cameras as a matter of course, no matter what models they are. In fact, when I am 4WDing, I have all four of my cameras mounted with different lenses sitting in the passenger seat of my FJ Cruiser. The OP is contemplating two 6Ds versus a 6D and 5D3. Two 6Ds would really be redundant.

As said, the 24-70 II stays on my 5D3 & the 6D gets the 70-200, 100L or TSE-17. This kit is not too heavy to hike with (with one of them being the 6D) and lets these lenses be at the ready.

The fps comes in very handy for landscape. I bracket everything, even my handheld shots. The faster the fps, the less movement you get in your bracketed images when handholding. Even on tripod, especially for doing HDR, the faster fps reduces movement in the image from wind. Technically, the 7D2 may be the better HDR camera because of fps.

I would never suggest a 6D over a 5D3 for landscape for IQ purposes unless I had a specific need that the 6D directly addresses, such as weight for a day long or overnight hike. I've actually chosen the 6D for this purpose over the 5D3.

Folks go on about the 6D being able to focus in -3 EV (although I think some have this mixed up with low light high ISO shooting somehow) but how do they handhold these shots without cranking ISO so high that the image isn't usable (ISO 800 is usually my max)? If I am in that kind of light, my camera is usually on a sturdy tripod and I am using LV to manually focus anyway9still talking landscape here).

As for resolution, I said there were major and minor tweaks. This would be classified as a minor advantage.

There are a number of differences in the way features are implemented that are noticeable when using the cameras side by side.

Except for size & weight, built-in wifi & GPS (neither of which I have used yet), and this very small advantage of -3 EV focusing, the 5D3 is the better camera for any type of photography IMO. I am hoping that the 5D4 has a reduced footprint and weight... but for marketing purposes, I suppose the reduction may not be enough to stop the flow of dollars to smaller mirrorless systems (so why would Canon mess with that aspect?).

--
R ick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Mystery Gardner: "Rick, you have a passion for photography but not a position. That's a good thing." Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie

Rakumi · Oct 20, 2014

Albert Silver said:
Rakumi said:

I do not have experience with the 85mm L lens but i have seen forum people speak on it having slower focus speed than the 85 1.8 as well as on digitalrev on youtube.

Click to expand...

My bad. I misunderstood and thought you were criticizing the focusing speed of the 85/1.8, which I own and would be hard pressed to find any fault in its focusing speed.

I kind of figured it came across wrong, no problem. Yeah, I own the 85mm 1.8 as well.

hiki08 · Oct 20, 2014

Thank you all for the replies!

So it seems there is an agreement (to which I also agree from online reading/research) that the 5D Mk3 doesn't give any noticeable advantage in terms of image quality over the 6D, and if anything, is outperformed by its younger brother in image quality and high ISO performance. The only noticeable difference between the two cameras is the focus points.

A few people mentioned shooting bracketed and the faster frame rate on the 5D Mk3 would be of assistance. Can I ask why you bracket and by how much +/-? I don't usually bracket unless I know I want that shot to be a HDR - in which case I'd likely have my camera on a tripod already. On other occasions, I just use +/- 2 EV in RAW back at the computer to adjust for HDR. (I'm not particularly skilled with post-processing but things seem to work okay).

In terms of fps, I always have my camera shutter on 'multiple frames' (?) in case I do want to fire a few shots consecutively but I would usually only do so on rare occasions when I don't get the time to compose the photo and believe I might have already missed the perfect timing, then I'd take a few in a row to see if I could catch a similar shot. 6fps seems like a decent increase, but if I was looking for fps speed then I should be looking at the 7D/7D mk2? It definitely is a point of consideration though, I guess

To clarify the reason for wanting a second camera body, I'll be travelling with my 6D together with family. However, they want to have their own camera to play around with while I use my camera (they've previously been using my old 500D, but it's getting pretty old now; and of course we do share the cameras and lenses). If I were to buy a new camera, I don't want it to be 'worse off' than what I already currently use - so at least the money spent is on something that is a viable alternative to what I already have (6D) and not completely down the drain. (I've also considered renting a 6D for the holiday(s) instead but I've never rented equipment before...)

As for my 85 f/1.2, it was my most recent lens acquisition after much deliberation. I'd like to think I've developed a feel for the lens now as one person mentioned above about being able to notice when it's having trouble focusing (or not). Most of my images with the lens are accurately focused - the biggest problem I have is its minimum focusing distance so I find myself needing to back up from the subject sometimes (more times than I'd like). Focusing using the 6D side focus points sometimes requires 2 focus attempts especially when the subject's eyes are in the shadow. I agree it focuses slow, but I tried the lens at a Canon Centre before buying, decided to live with it and it hasn't been a problem for me at all (okay, I did try to take photos of a 2yo baby crawling around - it was quite a challenge and a sigh of relief when he stands still - but that wasn't the reason why I purchased the lens). In short, been enjoying the lens very much even on my 6D and one of the last lenses I'd think about selling even if I were to use it on a 6D only.

shuutrr · Oct 20, 2014

FWIW....I think you should give more consideration to video.....the 70D is very capable of fine enough video and the combination of good stills and video is very rewarding IMO....the 70D will take any lenses that the 6D does and add a nice bit of additional reach when paired up with a 200 or 300 mm lens....I rented a 70 - 200L and 70 - 300L and swapped them between my 6D, for stills, and my 70D, for video, and was very pleased with the results....I was photographing a "sky crane" helicopter while it was working and the combination of great stills with stunningly clear telephoto video shots is quite an image package, on top of being a hell of a lot of fun....I was on a river at the base of a mountainous National Forest a few weeks ago doing similar photography with those two bodies and once again, some of my stills were stunning, IMO, but, a minute or so of audio/video of that river, and the wildlife sounding off, really seems to lift you up and put you right back there....I really enjoy, and am very fortunate, frankly, to have one very capable body for capturing good stills and good audio / video....IMHO.......

Deciding over a 5D Mk3 or my second 6D?

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