3rd party "Claria" dye inks and fading

Long time reader, first post on the forum.

I've recenty acquired Epson 1500W (Artisan 1430) printer. I'm thinking about switching to 3rd party inks but I'm really concerned about longevity of the prints.

I use Epson Premium Glossy papers and I'm thinking about investing in a laminating machine for the prints I'd like to see around for say 10 years in album storage.

SO: Have you noticed any fading issues worse than Epson's Claria inks with 3rd party inks? I suppose laminating would help tremendously on that matter. I'm residing in europe, so most likely going to purchase inks and cartridges from an UK supplier, like inkexpress.co.uk. Please feel free to suggest other suppliers in EU.

Not really looking at "get yourself a Epson R3000" or pigment vs. dye kinda conversation, just wanna know about quality of 3rd party inks. Many people use them but I couldn't find anything useful about fading. I've read that paper matters maybe more than inks, and i think Premium Glossy should be good stuff, and is not too expensive.

you could also use pigmented inks on the 1500W with custom paper profiles

hence you need them ANYway with 3rd party inks

only thing I should mention: the 1500w is a native dye ink printer and its automatic cleaning process in not optimized in any way to cope with the ink residue from pigmented inks so it requires additional manual cleaning from time to time, on "heavy" printing at least once a week.

I have seen 1400 and 1500W with over 100.000 Prints with out ANY issues I do repair and service them aswell

kind regards from Hamburg Germany

Serhat

You also have to ask: how long do the Claria inks last. I think the only way to know is to do dual prints in-house and see how Claria versus 3rd party hold up.

I am using Ink Specialist dye inks in a SP1410.

I find paper more important to longevity than the ink.

I have prints on Epson Archival Matt been on the wall for 5ish years and still good, not framed or covered.

The resin coated papers look very good, premium brands last longer than the cheap stuff.

Have fun

Garry

I'm not planning on investing any printer calibration gear, those are crazy expensive for calibrating maybe 1 or 2 ink-paper combos, in my opinion.

I've been told some of 3rd party inks are so close that oem profiles would work, maybe slight changes to contrast/saturation in LR.

What are the best UK suppliers for dye inks? Recommendations please.

Maybe you should have a look at octoinkjet.co.uk (Image Specialists Claria compatible dye inks) or Coralgraph.com (both UK).

This test about fading might interest you (I too have an Epson 1500W, now using Inktec Powerchrome K3 pigment ink):


OCP was worst. Best inks are Inkowl fade resistant dye ink and Coralgraph dye. Then we have the pigment ink, as expected very fade resistant.

Thank you.

Any thoughts using spray fixatives?
How about laminating?

Apotheker said:

Maybe you should have a look at octoinkjet.co.uk (Image Specialists Claria compatible dye inks) or Coralgraph.com (both UK).

This test about fading might interest you (I too have an Epson 1500W, now using Inktec Powerchrome K3 pigment ink):

http://www.printerknowledge.com/threads/my-new-epson-stylus-photo-1500w-artisan-1430.8482/page-4

OCP was worst. Best inks are Inkowl fade resistant dye ink and Coralgraph dye. Then we have the pigment ink, as expected very fade resistant.

Click to expand...

A very good test, thanks for posting. I also own a 1400 and initially considered substituting 3rd party inks for the Claria to save money, until I did some research.

Claria inks have been tested by Henry Wilhelm to be as good as pigment inks, so for approximately 100 years on display under glass. Canon's dye inks have also been tested by Wilhelm for around 45 years, so about 1/2 of Claria. Claria inks are a uniquely patented formula unmatched by any 3rd party inks, so any substitute will have less longevity than Claria. So if longevity is not important to you 3rd party inks should work just fine, but if it is then all of them will fade faster than Claria.

Since I often sell what I print I did not want to sell inferior fast fading prints to customers, so have decided to stick with the OEM inks. YMMV

Apotheker said:

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Crazy about printing, profiling and refilling printer cartridges

Click to expand...

KKiuru said:

KKiuru wrote: What are the best UK suppliers for dye inks? Recommendations please.

Click to expand...

I have been using inkexpress dye inks in my DX7400 all-in-one for several years (I believe Alex has the Inkspecialists inks) and they are certainly as good as the OEM Claria offerings - and at a fraction of the price if a CIS or Refillables used (I use refillables - always had some issues with CIS units and have used a lot of good ones over the years). Have just returned to Spain from UK visit and have fresh supply of 100ml each of the Y, M and C plus 3x Black. I find by simply using the normal Epson setting for PHOTO and EPSON GLOSSY in the printer's dialogue area the output is fine. The biggest problem regarding any fading is the choice of paper. Simple as that. With "ordinary" gloss papers (I use for family photos) results are fine - seem to last a long time as long as not in sunny conditions of course. Not sure if encapsulating is a good idea - I did some a few years back and the comparison was those encapsulated faded over a couple of years, even in low lighting whereas the un-encapsulated same photos did not.

I do use inkjetfly.com pigment inks in my 1400. When I got my 1400 from Alex at inkexpress in UK and brought back as hold luggage, I had their dye inks as at that time, they were not sure about offering pigment inks. Since then - high quality pigment inks available - so when I finish my stocks of the pigments from inkjetfly, may get the pigmented inks from inkexpress - may not! - problem these days is anything into Spain from outside UK carries automatic +21% but to be honest - the inkjetfly pigment inks are so good that I may well simply re-order as even with the tax, they are excellent value and I do know how they perform and IJF profile "for Epson glossy" works fine for colour printing on to the Epson Archival Matt paper. I use Canson Watercolour (acid free) papers for my B+W - full details via link in my signature.

--
Zone8: Although I am a handsome genius, when I stand in front of a mirror, I vaguely recognise the ugly idjit standing on the other side!
LINK: For B+W with Epson 1400 (and other models) using black ink only PLUS other useful tips:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/epson1400-B&W.htm
Cleaning DSLR Sensors, including Kodak DSLR Factory Cleaning method:
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/KodakDCS-sensorcleaning.htm (Includes links to "bassotto's" images)
Solving back/front focus problems on Sigma and most other DSLRs
http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/backfocus.htm
PDF format list of lenses you can print or download - covers Italian Flag YES/NO for DCS 14n but applies to others. http://www.photosnowdonia.co.uk/ZPS/ItiFlagLensList.pdf

I'm looking now InkOwl inks and cartridges, big promises?


Even that they ship from Canada, 120ml bottles + refillable cartridges shipped to Finland, would only cost around 90 euros (customs incl.). That's OK price.

I can certainly live with Claria's longevity (printed on Epson Premium Glossy papers), but if i'm switching to 3rd party inks, i'm considering a laminating machine or/and using spray fixatives for those prints that end up some place other than my own walls. Prints on my own walls i can reprint every week if i want to.

mike earussi said:

mike earussi said:

Claria inks have been tested by Henry Wilhelm to be as good as pigment inks, so for approximately 100 years on display under glass. Canon's dye inks have also been tested by Wilhelm for around 45 years, so about 1/2 of Claria.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

The Canon Pro-100 dye set is actually as good or better than the Claria dye set due to the inclusion of the photo gray inks that the Claria set doesn't have. The photo grays help the Canon Pro-100 dye set achieve more controlled gray balance over time. The Wilhelm ratings don't adequately account for these gray balance differences between the two dye sets at the earlier stages in fading where the viewer will first begin to notice fade. Bottom line is that both Canon Pro-100 set and Epson Claria sets should be considered closer in overall performance on matched papers than the Wilhelm ratings suggest, and both are significantly better than any third party dye sets I'm aware of.

Simple window tests can be instructive, but sometimes they can also be misleading since moisture at the sample plane is not adequately controlled during the light exposure. Third party vendors generally won't pay for more exacting laboratory tests because they see no upside in providing those test results to their customers. Their customers for the most part are interested in cost savings and are willing to accept less print permanence as the trade for that lower cost.

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Mark McCormick

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com