Six months later, how have people adapted to a cloud-based Photoshop?

Hi,

I can't find any discussions online by photographers, six months later, about what software they've
used to replace Photoshop, if they did. CaptureOne? Lightroom? Dxo? Gimp?
I also can't find reactions six months later. Today is also the second day of the Photoshop World 2014 in Las Vegas. Any reactions to Adobe at the show?
I have a few questions.
  1. Has any one, single piece of software replaced Photoshop for you? For personal use or professional use?
  2. Do you use a combination of different software?
  3. Have you had to, for professional reasons (pay the bills), manage a Linux operating system and a Windows operating system to run your studio?
  4. Which version of Photoshop do you rely on the most?
    I remember the furor about Adobe's decision. I don't agree with it. I don't work for Adobe.
Since I also work professionally with other software in the CC suite I don't want to be at the mercy of a software giant.

If I get the Creative Suite I won't be able to access my work unless I for ever pay their subscription fees. That is something only fools accept. So - no way.

The fees may be low now, but when the share holders demands more money - who knows.
Subscriptions services always bait you with low prices in the beginning, and they switch later. Later still, they will increase it mercilessly. That has always been the suffrage of all customers of subscription services, namely Electric, Phone, Cell Phone, Cable TV, Water, Garbage Collection Services, Natural Gas, Home Insurance, Auto Insurance, Health Insurance et al.

If anyone knows of any subscription service that lowered their prices, because they loved you to death, please advise !!
 
I don't like the idea of cloud-based software. But so far it's okay with me as I use LR and PSE which still is possible to buy. The day they aren't, I would probably turn to DxO which is a better raw converter than LR but lacks the library functiions and have no possibility to local adjustments, and to PSP instead of PSE.
 
Lightroom. From Adobe:

Since the launch of the Creative Cloud, Adobe has engaged in an ongoing dialog with the photographic community. We’ve tackled mobile workflows, provided ongoing enhancements and lastly, provided a membership plan tailor made for all levels of photographers. With the latest update to Lightroom 5.5 I believe we’ve also addressed a lingering concern in the community: What happens to my photographs after my membership ends? With Lightroom 5.5, at the end of a membership, the desktop application will continue to launch and provide access to the photographs managed within Lightroom as well as the Slideshow, Web, Book or Print creations that we know many photographers painstakingly create. The Develop and Map modules have been disabled in order to signal the end of the membership and the need to renew in order to receive Adobe’s continuous innovation in those areas. Access to Lightroom mobile workflows will also cease to function. We hope this meets the expectations of our customers and we look forward to an ongoing dialog.

Also, With a PS subscription, if you had any perpetual CS6 products before your Creative Cloud subscription then you can keep and reactivate them at any time.
 
If I wasn't forced to use a Mac at work, I'd still be working in Corel PhotoPaint, which is superior to Photoshop because it's able to take advantage of the right mouse button for functions that require you to hold down a key in Photoshop due to Apple's crippled mouse!
The Magic Mouse is quite capable of handling right-clicking. Just go into the Mouse panel in System Preferences and enable that option.

...

That was over 10 years ago, so if Adobe doesn't support right-clicking in recent Macintosh releases of Photoshop (which I find very hard to believe), it's not Apple's fault.
But Macs in general are designed as one button machines. For instance my Mac Pro's touchpad has two "buttons", one on each side of the touchpad; running Windows Bootcamp allows both left and right clicks using the touchpad like any other Windows laptop, BUT when you're running OSX even if you click the right side of the touchpad it still is a left click! As such software for Macs have to take that into consideration.

Here's an example of making PROPER use of the right mouse button...when using the clone tool in Photoshop I have to keep reaching for the keyboard every time I want to set a "copy from" point. In PhotoPaint I just have to click the right mouse button (or the button on my stylus). For that function alone, PhotoPaint saves me a LOT of time, especially with an image like the following where 98% of the work to repair the image was cloning:



earlyedit.jpg
 
I intensely dislike lightroom?

I tried it when it first came out. I did not then, and do not now, want to be forced to catalog my images. That should be an option for the user to choose, just as it is in Capture One Pro.
You don't have to let LR catalogue your images. I dislike LR for other reasons but I had to use it to discover those reasons and I did so from my own file structure with no bother.

It's true that you must "import" pictures before you can work on them in LR - a lengthy business for thousands of raw files - but doing so doesn't alter the structure of those files.
 
Adobe is not forcing you to use the cloud,
Absolutely they are, you cannot use PS unless you use the cloud, you are forced.
If you buy you can do so from a disk but many people choose to download from the web; if you subscribe to CC the only way to download is from the web. So what you say is technically true.

Once you've downloaded the software you are independent of external contact until you want the latest update.
and your images are still available after you drop your subscription.
I am not sure I was told that if you save in a psd file, how are you going to access it without PS?
If you start from scratch with CC - that is, as a new user - I don't know what happens to PSDs. If you move to CC from an earlier version of PS, which you still own, then leaving CC you revert to the old version but may lose anything that involved updated process.

Similarly raw files: process them in CC and revert and you might not retrieve all your edits. But your original raw files are intact and any processed JPGs are intact.
 
That was over 10 years ago, so if Adobe doesn't support right-clicking in recent Macintosh releases of Photoshop (which I find very hard to believe), it's not Apple's fault.
But Macs in general are designed as one button machines.
Apple's human interface guidelines do not prohibit secondary-click functionality. The guidelines do discourage offering functionality only on secondary-click menus, so that novices can get by with just a single mouse button, if they prefer. That implies that if you are writing a word processor, it is no fair to put the Spell Check and Grammar Check functions only on a right-click menu, leaving novices to wonder where they have gone. But if you put them on the main menus and also on a contextual menu (for quick access), that would be more acceptable.
For instance my Mac Pro's touchpad has two "buttons", one on each side of the touchpad; running Windows Bootcamp allows both left and right clicks using the touchpad like any other Windows laptop, BUT when you're running OSX even if you click the right side of the touchpad it still is a left click! As such software for Macs have to take that into consideration.
Enabling right-clicking on a MacBook Pro touchpad is not difficult. You just change a setting in System Preferences – in this case, in the Trackpad panel.

OS X Daily – Enable "Right-Click" on a Mac Laptop
 
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I intensely dislike lightroom?

I tried it when it first came out. I did not then, and do not now, want to be forced to catalog my images. That should be an option for the user to choose, just as it is in Capture One Pro.
You don't have to let LR catalogue your images. I dislike LR for other reasons but I had to use it to discover those reasons and I did so from my own file structure with no bother.

It's true that you must "import" pictures before you can work on them in LR - a lengthy business for thousands of raw files - but doing so doesn't alter the structure of those files.
Exactly, and THAT is exactly what I do not like... importing, so you can catalog them. I just want to point my raw converter at a folder of raws and say have at it. No fuss, no muss.
 
Lightroom. From Adobe:

Since the launch of the Creative Cloud, Adobe has engaged in an ongoing dialog with the photographic community.
Well listen to this. Most people don't want to rent software. You have angered them. I don't want you in my pocket every month or year, and I don't want my (actually in this case, your) software turning off when I don't pay.

But you don't care what customers want, just like I don't care about your company. I will support another company, Corel or whoever actually trying to make a better product I can buy, not rent.
 
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Adobe is not forcing you to use the cloud,
Absolutely they are, you cannot use PS unless you use the cloud, you are forced.
If you buy you can do so from a disk but many people choose to download from the web; if you subscribe to CC the only way to download is from the web. So what you say is technically true.

Once you've downloaded the software you are independent of external contact until you want the latest update.
Ok, what do you mean? That you can purchase the software and not have to pay a monthly or yearly subscription fee and the software will continue to work until the end of time with no as long as you don't update it.

If this is true then, I recant my argument and I misunderstand the concept.
and your images are still available after you drop your subscription.
I am not sure I was told that if you save in a psd file, how are you going to access it without PS?
If you start from scratch with CC - that is, as a new user - I don't know what happens to PSDs.
If you are buying this software, wouldn't it be important to know? But I think we all know what happens. this statement also goes against what you said earlier, the software continues to work even if you don't pay.
If you move to CC from an earlier version of PS, which you still own, then leaving CC you revert to the old version but may lose anything that involved updated process.
Oh, everyone wants that sign me up. Uhg..
Similarly raw files: process them in CC and revert and you might not retrieve all your edits. But your original raw files are intact and any processed JPGs are intact.
If you are happy with this Gerry, fine. I choose the old method where someone makes something, you buy it and own it. Corel does this, you can choose to upgrade or not. The do not hold you or your images hostage unless you pay them. I like that better.

What technical improvements or new filters has photoshop had since you have had to pay for it month to month? This is a money grab. I choose not to allow them to grab my money.

Oh and I did look at the last updates, smart sharpen (and smart blur) and perspective change have been in Corel for along time now. Do you need 3d design?

Are those "new" features worth the next years payment? Only you can make that decision but not for me. Good bye Adobe.
--
---
Gerry
_______________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006
http://www.pbase.com/gerrywinterbourne
[email protected]
 
I have been very pleased using Photoshop from the cloud. In operation, it is mostly unchanged from Photoshop 6. I do like the more current updates and improvements. My work flow is unchanged.
 
I don't like the idea of cloud-based software. But so far it's okay with me as I use LR and PSE which still is possible to buy. The day they aren't, I would probably turn to DxO which is a better raw converter than LR but lacks the library functiions and have no possibility to local adjustments, and to PSP instead of PSE.
Adobe CC is not cloud-based software. The applications are downloaded to your computer from Adobe's servers and they run on your computer just as if you had installed them from a disk.

--
gollywop



D8A95C7DB3724EC094214B212FB1F2AF.jpg
 
Lightroom. From Adobe:

Since the launch of the Creative Cloud, Adobe has engaged in an ongoing dialog with the photographic community.
Well listen to this. Most people don't want to rent software. You have angered them. I don't want you in my pocket every month or year, and I don't want my (actually in this case, your) software turning off when I don't pay.

But you don't care what customers want, just like I don't care about your company. I will support another company, Corel or whoever actually trying to make a better product I can buy, not rent.
Actually, most do, adobe is pretty pleased with its sales. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. And the idea that corel is as good is joke, there is a reason they barely survived.
 
that includes LR and licenses for my desktop and laptop and is only $40 more expensive than updating PS every 2 years under the old regime as I was prone to do. Under the old plan, folks that upgraded every two years subsidized those who upgraded only when they were forced to. I disagree with the continued support of CS6. The current pricing model forces everyone to contribute to the development of the software on a fair basis and I expect more companies to start doing the same. Also under the old plan, you had to purchase the original software @ $600 (unless you found a hack somewhere which I suspect is the case for many whiners).

Hi,

I can't find any discussions online by photographers, six months later, about what software they've
used to replace Photoshop, if they did. CaptureOne? Lightroom? Dxo? Gimp?
I also can't find reactions six months later. Today is also the second day of the Photoshop World 2014 in Las Vegas. Any reactions to Adobe at the show?
I have a few questions.
  1. Has any one, single piece of software replaced Photoshop for you? For personal use or professional use?
  2. Do you use a combination of different software?
  3. Have you had to, for professional reasons (pay the bills), manage a Linux operating system and a Windows operating system to run your studio?
  4. Which version of Photoshop do you rely on the most?
    I remember the furor about Adobe's decision. I don't agree with it. I don't work for Adobe.
 
that includes LR and licenses for my desktop and laptop and is only $40 more expensive than updating PS every 2 years under the old regime as I was prone to do. Under the old plan, folks that upgraded every two years subsidized those who upgraded only when they were forced to.
I'm happy with the CC model (see my earlier post in the thread) but I don't think your logic stands up. People were rarely "forced" to update, if ever. It's true that as CS was updated older versions couldn't be used directly with newer cameras but the free DNG converter was a way round that.

Yes, if you did upgrade only every third version you paid only 1/3 of the price that regular upgraders paid, but you went without the benefits of the intermediate upgrades. In other words, regular upgraders paid more and got more during the interim period. That seems perfectly fair to me, with no subsidy either way.
I disagree with the continued support of CS6.
People bought CS6 at a time when purchase was the Adobe model. Adobe should be free to change its model but not free to disenfranchise people who bought in good faith. Adobe has always provided support for previous versions for a period before withdrawing it (typically three versions or 4-5 years) and that seems a reasonable period to continue support for CS6.
The current pricing model forces everyone to contribute to the development of the software on a fair basis and I expect more companies to start doing the same. Also under the old plan, you had to purchase the original software @ $600.
Both models force you to pay for what you get if you want to get it. Both models have advantages (and advocates); both have drawbacks (and critics). I don't think there's any abstract way of saying which is inherently better: CC suits me but I can understand that it doesn't suit everyone.
 
My first Mac from 2008 mouse had left and right click. Any Mac will take any Windows mouse for right and left click. Just how old is your computer?
 
I haven't used Photoshop in 10 years. The last I used was Photoshop elements 2. I use DPP and Aperture.
 
Lightroom. From Adobe:

Since the launch of the Creative Cloud, Adobe has engaged in an ongoing dialog with the photographic community.
Well listen to this. Most people don't want to rent software. You have angered them. I don't want you in my pocket every month or year, and I don't want my (actually in this case, your) software turning off when I don't pay.

But you don't care what customers want, just like I don't care about your company. I will support another company, Corel or whoever actually trying to make a better product I can buy, not rent.
Actually, most do, adobe is pretty pleased with its sales. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. And the idea that corel is as good is joke, there is a reason they barely survived.
Most people don't like it because it will cost them more money. You cannot deny that. Not, increased revenues but not just because of more people, increase in per subscriber revenue.

This move was not one for the customer, it was one for Adobe to increase profits.

"The Bank of America analysts wrote, “We continue to highlight Adobe Systems as the most compelling play on transition to recurring revenues/Cloud.”

The reasons for its increased price target are more people subscribing to Adobe’s Creative Cloud, higher per-subscriber revenues, and increased profit margins. Specifically, Bank of America looks for the number of subscribers to Creative Cloud to rise from 5 million in fiscal year 2015 to 12.5 million by FY 2019; with its average monthly selling price to increase from $35 to $40 during the same period and increased earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) margins to grow from 55% to 60"

I never said corel was better. Corel has a reason to improve, Adobe has reason to increase profit. Resting on your laurels and your hand in your customers pockets every month is one way to do it.
 
If anyone knows of any subscription service that lowered their prices, because they loved you to death, please advise !!
Well, how about Adobe? PS was $20 per month. Today you can get both PS and LR for $10 per month. I don't know about the love part, but it would be foolish for Adobe to not at least like and want to retain paying customers.

Companies aren't in business to spread the love, but those looking for love can generally find it in the open-source community.
 
Lightroom. From Adobe:

Since the launch of the Creative Cloud, Adobe has engaged in an ongoing dialog with the photographic community.
Well listen to this. Most people don't want to rent software. You have angered them. I don't want you in my pocket every month or year, and I don't want my (actually in this case, your) software turning off when I don't pay.

But you don't care what customers want, just like I don't care about your company. I will support another company, Corel or whoever actually trying to make a better product I can buy, not rent.
Actually, most do, adobe is pretty pleased with its sales. But don't let facts get in the way of your rant. And the idea that corel is as good is joke, there is a reason they barely survived.
They survived by lining up some well timed investors, and by caring about one product, and one product only. PaintShop Pro. Everything else was either bought to enhance PSP or to milk for some instant cash that they could pour into PSP. And it shows in that PSP remains the second most complete and competent editor on the market.

My concern/speculation is that they have been making noises like AfterShot Pro is going to be their new favorite piece of software, leaving PSP to take second place. And it does make a certain amount of sense,
  1. traditional bit mapped editors, just aren't as important as they used to be to the overall photographic effort any more. It seems most people use editors as a supplement to their favorite workflow tools, not as the primary tool. (Yes, I know someone will post that THEY don't work that way, but they are quickly becoming the minority)
  2. PSP is pretty mature at this point, all that's really left to add are the Art director stuff that Ps has (and pretty much only ADs use anyway). It won't take all that much effort and resources to keep PSP X(x) reasonably competitive.
The only negative I can see, is that there is a LOT of competition for the Workflow tool market. With editors, there was Photoshop, with PSP a distant second, and after THAT, ALL the others market share was so small that there was no real competition for them.

The competitors for WF tools are a lot closer together in market share. The distance between 1st and 2nd place in market share is much smaller than for editors as is WHO exactly is in 2nd place. Plus I'm pretty sure if Corel wants to secure 2nd place for this market, they are going to have to work MUCH harder than they have been. I'm pretty sure CaptureOne and ACDSee have their sights on winning this market as well. (DX0 not included as they don't have all the tools required to be considered a workflow tool, they are primarily a raw conversion tool)

--
I look good fat, I'm gonna look good old. . .
http://glenbarrington.blogspot.com/
 
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