Camera for teeth shoot

Dentister

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Hi,

I need a camera for full mouth shoot required for treatment follow up(example)

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. i`m still a PG student & i see it will cost me a lot if i wanna to buy DSLR camera with 2 lenses(canon) (macro=100 & average lense=18-135). they suggest canon or nikon.

one of my friend bought sony Dsc-hx20v & i found it shoot well.

so now i found fujifilm s8500 & canon sx510hs , i tried both ,both shoot good quality images from my view point.

so please help me to decide which one is better or if there are another suggested camera(my budget 250$)

Thanks
 
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If i extend my budget to buy Nikon D3100 with 18.55 lens ,, Would i be able to shoot small area from short distance? or should i buy new macro lense? as i tried with canon d60 with 18-135mm & the image was blurred .
 
Hi,

I have left school a long time ago so I don't know what are the requirements for your dental school.

From what I remember, you need at least a ring flash to take quality photos because the operatory lights may not be sufficient. I don't think you can attach the ring flash on a PnS/Superzoom camera. So you need a DSLR at least.
 
Didn't see your 2nd post just now.

Most dentists I know use a 105mm macro lens in manual focus mode and maximum DOF. Hence a ring flash is necessary for handholding due to the small aperture. You can't set up a tripod over the patient now can you? :)

Perhaps you may wish to consult your postgraduate seniors or lecturers to get a rough idea about what they use for documentation. Hope that helps...
 
This style of photograph can be done with almost any camera. You only need a bright light, such as an overhead dental light, to illuminate the area. In your example, it appears that someone attempted to use an improperly-positioned flash, and was mixing flash with ambient light, which is why there is a colour imbalance. This is more about knowing what you're doing, not having a fancy camera. You should shine the light onto the area, position the camera behind the light and zoom in if you have a zoom lens, and record from multiple angles before repositioning the light for the next area to be photographed. A dSLR with a long focal length is good if you want to enlarge a single tooth, but unnecessary for a wide-angle photograph. A lens with an Image Stabilizer is recommended.
 
Hi,

I have left school a long time ago so I don't know what are the requirements for your dental school.

From what I remember, you need at least a ring flash to take quality photos because the operatory lights may not be sufficient. I don't think you can attach the ring flash on a PnS/Superzoom camera. So you need a DSLR at least.
According to the requirement ; yes they mentioned it but it is not obligatory. most of our seniors are using the built in flash in their canon camera ; canon 60d, others have PnA which i think their photos are not good compared to dslr.

they recommended Only G12 canon as a PnS camera but it is discontinued.
 
If i extend my budget to buy Nikon D3100 with 18.55 lens ,, Would i be able to shoot small area from short distance? or should i buy new macro lense? as i tried with canon d60 with 18-135mm & the image was blurred .
DO NOT buy a DSLR for that!

Small-sensor cameras are better for macro. Just make sure you have right light. Some cameras have light around their lenses:



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And some allow to channel light through cheap attachments:



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DO NOT buy a DSLR for that!

Small-sensor cameras are better for macro. Just make sure you have right light. Some cameras have light around their lenses:
Agree 100%...I have a SLR ring light specifically designed for dentists and with the dSLR and lens it's just too big, bulky, and awkward to use.

Any of the p&s TOUGH cameras that have built-in led lighting is a much better device for this use, especially since these cameras usually have a good macro mode as well.

An added benefit of the TOUGH cameras is they are waterproof so they can be rinsed off after use for sanitary purposes, unlike most dSLRs and lenses.
 
thx a lot ,,so as ARShutterbug recommends ,i can use the dental unit light with zooming camera+IS in taking shoot.

also this is my first time to see camera with ""ALIEN EYES" what is the model of this camera.
 
i forgot to mention that all our shoots are indirect using metallic mirror "silver glass produce blurred & double image" i tried several 100$ to 150% almost they did not give good qualities images because of the mirror -i guess.

so i decided to get bridge camera with good macro capabilities so with zooming i shoot with taking proper angulation as u said.
 
thx a lot ,,so as ARShutterbug recommends ,i can use the dental unit light with zooming camera+IS in taking shoot.

also this is my first time to see camera with ""ALIEN EYES" what is the model of this camera.
Which one? On the 1st picture is Ricoh WG-4 GPS (previous model, Pentax WG-3 GPS, is the same). But you can buy a cheaper model without GPS - it has the LED lights too.

On the second picture is Olympus TG-3 with LG-1 macro ring light attachment (it also works with previous models TG-1 and TG-2, but TG-3 have special macro mode on the dial I think - I don't know how useful this mode is for this application, mouth does not seem to be macro, more like a closeup, so even a regular mode should work.

On the 3rd is Olympus XZ-1 (I think) with Olympus MAL-1 macro arm light which works with any Olympus camera with accessory port. It is $50 new, there are cheaper knock-off on ebay, I have seem as cheap as $18. I would not use the older XZ-1, instead I would ask about XZ-2. I imagine tilting screen would help.

#2 channels in-camera flash so should be bright enough. #1 and #3 are macro lights, I am not sure how bright are they going to be at the distance required to take the whole mouth.
 
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Why would you need a mirror to do a frontal photograph? That's more complicated than a direct photograph, and will significantly increase focusing difficulties, reflections, and the colour balance. The only reason why you would need a mirror is to be able to photograph the rear sides of the teeth, but that's different from what you showed in your example.
 
we do not use mirror in frontal we use mirror only occlusally( for upper & lower jaws) & in right & left sides.

this is an example of :



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You might look at a Sony A58. With the 18-55mm kit lens it goes for $448. You can also get the 30mm f/2.8 macro which should work for your purpose. Those go for $200 new or $100-150 used. You could also look for a Minolta AF 50mm f/2.8. They go for $125-200 used.

Macro lenses tend to focus slower, so if you need to manually focus you'll have focus peaking to help with the A58.
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Good luck and happy shooting!
 
The Canon G12 that your program recommended may be gone, but it was replaced by the similar G15 and then the G16. None of these are actually point & shoot models as that term is used only for small, simple cameras intended for casual photographers. The G16 lacks the articulated rear screen (flips out, turns up and down), which would seem a useful feature when shooting at odd angles. It has gained a faster lens that will let you use shorter exposures. No big deal. Ring lights are available for various syetems. Go to a big web site like B & H or Adorama and search for ring lights. They are common because so useful for macro photography.
 
Judging from the posts above, I think my advice is somewhat outdated. :P

It seems like there are newer and cheaper solutions which wasn't so common during my time.

So are you taking prostho or ortho?
 
i`m studying ortho ,,, but actually no you are not outdated but i used to get beautiful shoot with my old camera sony-w50,,even with new model hx20v u can get good qualities with single shoot! but it require alot of adjustment & multishoot to get a good photo.

i found that it is a waste to buy DSLR & i have limited use ,, so i`m looking for advice.

so as ARShutterbug said that zooming & IS will do the job,sensor development is really in a different scale nowadays, others suggest to get flash around the lense as mentioned.

So i`m now between two options either s8500 or sx510hs, olympus alien eye:-D.

so what do you think guys?
 
The first concept to understand here is that dentists have different requirements to conventional macro photographers.

When conventional macro photographers do close up macro shots of flowers or frogs etc, they often deliberately blur the background to enhance the subject; this is done by opening the aperture [aka pupil].

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Aperture on the one hand allows more light in, but on the otherhand, wide apertures have a very narrow depth of field DOF, such that the volume in front and behind the subject is out of focus.

This is often deliberately done to enhance the subject.

A wide aperture also has the benefit of allowing more light in, so that flashes don't have to be used, and that natural lighting can be used.

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However, dentists, orthodontists and prosthodontists etc often don't want the background blurred; they often want the background still in focus like this:

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So if we photograph using a wide aperture to allow lots of natural light in etc, we end up with a narrow depth of field like this; note how the incisors are in focus, but the molars are blurred?

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In the next example, we now use a small aperture for a wide depth of field DOF, such that both the incisors and molars are both in focus.

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There is one catch!

Because a smaller aperture is used, it dramatically reduces the amount of light that can enter the camera, such that a "ring flash" like the Canon MR-14 EX, and the latest MR-14 EX II must be used.

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You can't use the built-in pop up flash because, it is not designed to work at short focal lengths, so the subject is hyper-illuminated. Furthermore, the built-in pop up flash directs the flash above the teeth, onto the philtrum of the upper lip or nose etc. Another factor is that long Canon EF 100 mm Macro lenses etc, have long wide lenses that often obscure the beam of the flash etc. Thus, you must purchase a proper ring flash. These days, it seems that Nikon only makes the Y-type flash, which may not be quite as ideal, however this is debatable depending on preference.

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Now, the next factor is that you need something like a Canon EF 100 mm f/2.8 Macro lens.

The macro-type lens allows you to get close up within 0.31 meters.

The 100 mm focal length combined with the 1.6x crop/equivalence factor [more on this later] will allow you to zoom into the teeth without having to come too close to the patient, and without having to exceed the minimum focal distance.

The maximum aperture size of f/2.8 won't actually help a dentist, remembering that dentists want a smallish aperture for a wide depth of field DOF so that both the molars and incisors are simultaneously in focus.

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Canon does make a premium L-Class magnesium alloy bodied Canon EF 100 f/2.8L lens that is much heavier, and costs more than twice as much, and has superior dust proofing and weather sealing, and has superior optical qualities, but it is unnecessary for a dentist. This L-Class premium lens can be readily identified by the lovely red ring at the front.

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Now, we get to the body of the camera.

Now, we have a biggish and heavyish EF 100 mm f/2.8 Macro lens, and a biggish heavyish MR-14 EX ring flash, so we want a moderately large and moderately heavy dSLR camera body like a Canon EOS 70D.

This moderately large and moderately heavy camera body not only helps to balance out the weight, but it also provides a reasonable grip for such heavy equipment.

I would avoid the Canon EOS 100D, 1200D, and 700D because they all have such small grips, and they are too small and light to balance out the weight of that 100 mm Macro lens, and the big ring flash.

The Canon EOS 7D is okay. The 7D is slightly larger with a full size 100% optical viewfinder, and it is made of magnesium alloy for superior dust sealing and weather proofing, and it has a superior grip, especially for bigger hands. The downside of the 7D is that it is quite heavy, and the 7D is an aging model that is dying for an update, and indeed the update will be released soon, but Canon won't tell us when, as far as I know.

Now, all of these dSLR bodies from the 100D, 1200D, 700D, 70D and 7D have APS-C size sensors at 22.3 x 14.9 mm.

The bigger 6D, 5DIII, and 1D have full frame 36 x 24 mm sensors.

The 3/4 size APS-C size sensors are an advantage to dentists due to the 1.6x crop/equivalence factor that zooms into the teeth, rather than looking at the whole face. This 3/4 size sensor also has a deeper depth of field DOF than full frame 36 x 24 mm size sensors.

The full frame 36 x 24 mm sensor is generally fitted to larger and much more expensive camera bodies.

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Mobile phone cameras are very portable, but can't do much.

Compact cameras with a similar form factor to a cigarette box are compact, but can't do much either, especially in terms of ring flash and light distribution. Ten to 15 years ago, Nikon, Olympus and Kodak did make compact cameras with dental capability, but such models are no longer made.

Midsize mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras MILC have no optical viewfinder OVF and dSLR mirror mechanism, and instead use an electronic viewfinder EVF, so they are much smaller and lighter than dSLR cameras.

Examples of MILC's include the Olympus OM-D series, the Panasonic Lumix GH3 - both with medium sized micro 4/3 sensors at 17.3 x 13 mm, and the Sony Alpha A6000 with a 3/4 size APS-C sensor, and the Sony Alpha 7 with a full frame sensor.

However, be careful of the sensor size and the crop factors, the need for 100 mm Macro equivalent, the need for a ring flash for close up light and distribution, and remember that with that 100 mm macro lens, and the ring flash, you need a reasonably large grip to hold, and a reasonably large and heavy body to balance out all that weight so that it is not too head heavy. There is no point packing a big heavy 100 mm macro lens and ring flash onto a little body with a tidly grip that you cannot grip properly, and that is too head heavy.

Thus, a dSLR with a 3/4 size APS-C sensor like the Canon EOS 70D is a good choice. The 70D also has good video capability.

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The more expensive Mg alloy is great for big hands, but may be too heavy with all the accessories for some, and is an aging model with limited video capability.

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Keep in mind that the dSLR isn't just used for the postgrad course, it is an investment in your entire 40 year career.

You get what you pay for...
 
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However, dentists, orthodontists and prosthodontists etc often don't want the background blurred; they often want the background still in focus like this:
Which makes the smaller sensor cameras perfect because even wide open they have a large depth of field.
 
Good explanation, but DSLR for the purpose is TOTAL overkill. Given the DoF-limited nature of the job, small efficient sensor is highly preferable to large inefficient one.

My dentist uses an ancient Kodak superzoom connected right to his computer, and watches the result on the big screen. This may be a consideration too. Modern cameras (like Olympus TG-3) have built-in wireless, with some older ones some kind of EyeFi card can be used.
 

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