Fuji and the road ahead for bridge cameras

Ralph McKenzie · Jun 13, 2014

Envisioning the impeding discontinuance of the Fuji bridge camera prompted my to reconsider my photographic needs.

I've just finished doing a six part article on some alternatives to our ageing bridge- cameras.

Rather the reproduce the whole thing here follow this link and use the index menus for the different parts.

I should point out these essays are from my own view point and yours will no doubt differ on what is important for you in a camera, but it seemed like a good idea to work through the process.

We can continue the discussion here as well.

Part 1 can be found here . I may also post all of this in the Dpreview articles as time permits.

So what are your thoughts?

J o m s · Jun 13, 2014

Ralph I like this... =D

Compared to the Fuji HS50 all the other makers have superzoom “toy cameras”

And finally, Panasonic stepped up with FZ1000

From camerasize.com

http://camerasize.com/compare/#556,405

The kind of weight and size that I want (even though I am not a big boy). Hopefully, FZ250 or FZ300 will appear as hybrid of these two cams. =D

I think the sweet spot now is a superzoom with manual zoom, at least 1/1.7 XTrans sensor, 720mm (f/2.8) or up to 1000mm (f/4.0)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joms_birding
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ralph McKenzie · Jun 13, 2014

Yeah the new Panny is a big mother when the lens is used in anger. At 830 plus grams its no lite weight either. If Fuji don't show a response to these new cameras (Panny & Sony) I know where I will probably head.

At $899.00 US its going to be $1037.00 NZD at launch, but hopefully will be sub $1000.00 by the end of the first six months. That still makes the XA1 twin lens kit a really attractive proposition.

--
Love dat Fuji

http://akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

J o m s · Jun 13, 2014

Ralph McKenzie said:
Yeah the new Panny is a big mother when the lens is used in anger. At 830 plus grams its no lite weight either. If Fuji don't show a response to these new cameras (Panny & Sony) I know where I will probably head.

At $899.00 US its going to be $1037.00 NZD at launch, but hopefully will be sub $1000.00 by the end of the first six months. That still makes the XA1 twin lens kit a really attractive proposition.

Adam-T · Jun 13, 2014

J o m s said:
J o m s

Compared to the Fuji HS50 all the other makers have superzoom “toy cameras”

Nahhhh Joms, the FZ50 is still a toy plastic camera with a very outdated toy sensor , they just bloated it up to DSLR size to make its owners feel like they`ve got a proper camera

...

Seriously , the Panny looks a total winner to me, it`s a real shame they didn`t implement a manual+motor zoom system for the lens like old 80s Camcorders had and the weird Olympus 12-50 OMD kit lens uses (same for the RX10, it needed that too) , we`ll have to see how the zoom ring pans out .

FWIW I still think the HS20/30 were the perfect size for that series of camera, smaller than any DSLR with a decent range lens on and still excellent handling.

J o m s · Jun 14, 2014

AdamT said:
Adam-T said:

J o m s

Compared to the Fuji HS50 all the other makers have superzoom “toy cameras”

Click to expand...

Nahhhh Joms, the FZ50 is still a toy plastic camera with a very outdated toy sensor

Umm first of all that statement came from Ralph's article. =D

Adam-T said:
, they just bloated it up to DSLR size to make its owners feel like they`ve got a proper camera ...

Is the zoom mechanism of FZ50 comparable or as smooth as X-S1's zoom?

Adam-T said:
Seriously , the Panny looks a total winner to me, it`s a real shame they didn`t implement a manual+motor zoom system for the lens like old 80s Camcorders had and the weird Olympus 12-50 OMD kit lens uses (same for the RX10, it needed that too) , we`ll have to see how the zoom ring pans out .

I think the motor cannot drive the huge lens hence it is slow.

Adam-T said:
FWIW I still think the HS20/30 were the perfect size for that series of camera, smaller than any DSLR with a decent range lens on and still excellent handling.

Yes for ladies and small lads, HS20/30 is perfect but for big boys, HS50 or X-S1.

Adam-T · Jun 14, 2014

J o m s said:
Is the zoom mechanism of FZ50 comparable or as smooth as X-S1's zoom?

Even smoother as it`s all internal , the XS1 feels like a cheap wobbly DSLR superzoom compared to the silky smooth FZ50 action

J o m s said:
I think the motor cannot drive the huge lens hence it is slow.

have you tried it ????? . No ?, neither have I ... lets wait til it arrives, you may be first in line to buy one after you've tried it .

J o m s said:
J o m s said:

FWIW I still think the HS20/30 were the perfect size for that series of camera, smaller than any DSLR with a decent range lens on and still excellent handling.

Click to expand...

Yes for ladies and small lads, HS20/30 is perfect but for big boys, HS50 or X-S1.

oooerr .. I`m so glad I`m not one of the "big boys" , I`m sure you have lots of fun together . personally I`d rather play with the Ladies

--
** Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist **

J o m s · Jun 14, 2014

AdamT said:
Adam-T said:

Is the zoom mechanism of FZ50 comparable or as smooth as X-S1's zoom?

Click to expand...

Even smoother as it`s all internal , the XS1 feels like a cheap wobbly DSLR superzoom compared to the silky smooth FZ50 action

The manual focus ring of HS50 is the smoothest (very fluid) of em all. Wonder why can't Fuji make the whole zoom barrel that smooth?

Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:

I think the motor cannot drive the huge lens hence it is slow.

Click to expand...

have you tried it ????? . No ?, neither have I ... lets wait til it arrives, you may be first in line to buy one after you've tried it .

I've read some first hand review and they all share the same comment about its sluggishness. RX10 has this issue too.

Adam-T said:
Adam-T said:

Adam-T said:

FWIW I still think the HS20/30 were the perfect size for that series of camera, smaller than any DSLR with a decent range lens on and still excellent handling.

Click to expand...

Yes for ladies and small lads, HS20/30 is perfect but for big boys, HS50 or X-S1.

Click to expand...

oooerr .. I`m so glad I`m not one of the "big boys" , I`m sure you have lots of fun together . personally I`d rather play with the Ladies

Not the predator ones from Paul's cab... =D

photoreddi · Jun 14, 2014

J o m s said:
AdamT said:

J o m s said:

Is the zoom mechanism of FZ50 comparable or as smooth as X-S1's zoom?

Click to expand...

Even smoother as it`s all internal , the XS1 feels like a cheap wobbly DSLR superzoom compared to the silky smooth FZ50 action

Click to expand...

The manual focus ring of HS50 is the smoothest (very fluid) of em all. Wonder why can't Fuji make the whole zoom barrel that smooth?

Sheesh. Thimk!!! One ring has to move lens elements and rotate gears. The other ring only has to trip a fly-by-wire electronic detector which might be optical or magnetic, making no physical contact with anything other than the part of the lens barrel that it surrounds. It might even make no contact with metal if it glides in a Teflon channel.

Wellington100 · Jun 14, 2014

Ralph McKenzie said:
Envisioning the impeding discontinuance of the Fuji bridge camera prompted my to reconsider my photographic needs.

I've just finished doing a six part article on some alternatives to our ageing bridge- cameras.

Rather the reproduce the whole thing here follow this link and use the index menus for the different parts.

I should point out these essays are from my own view point and yours will no doubt differ on what is important for you in a camera, but it seemed like a good idea to work through the process.

We can continue the discussion here as well.

Part 1 can be found here . I may also post all of this in the Dpreview articles as time permits.

So what are your thoughts?

Ralph McKenzie · Jun 14, 2014

Wellington100 said:
Wellington100 said:

An alternative may be a Canon SX700. With its 25-750 zoom and decent IQ, it has similar reach to bridges of 2 years ago but it fits in a jacket pocket. Sure it has no EVF but seeing what Panny is doing with EVF's on tiny compact cameras, an EVF added into a SX700 like the one in the Panny LF1, might be the ultimate bridge camera.

Click to expand...

Ok that means no big sensor or large aperture lens but those are the prices one pays for ultimate convenience.

A compact is a compact no matter its focal length. Compared to the XS1 or the HS50 its really just a travel compact with a small sensor. I'm not looking for a camera that's not much bigger than a matchbox, and I imagine that most others aren't either , that's one reason why we own bridge cameras.

My hand fully open from little fingertip to thumb tip is 200 mm across (8-1/2 inches). Trying to hold onto something as tiny as a F900 or the canon SX700 and do serious photography would be laughable. There is not compact made that is a decent replacement for a current Fuji Bridge camera.

The size of the new Sony and Panny only reinforces this as does the design or these cameras. Large high quality lenses coupled with larger sensor will generally require larger body. Its difficult to defeat basic physics, although the backroom boffins will be giving it a good try.

Love dat Fuji

A-KiwiRetrospective

Capturing Moments In Time.

akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com

Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

Wellington100 · Jun 16, 2014

Ralph McKenzie said:
Wellington100 said:

Ralph McKenzie said:

An alternative may be a Canon SX700. With its 25-750 zoom and decent IQ, it has similar reach to bridges of 2 years ago but it fits in a jacket pocket. Sure it has no EVF but seeing what Panny is doing with EVF's on tiny compact cameras, an EVF added into a SX700 like the one in the Panny LF1, might be the ultimate bridge camera.

Click to expand...

Ok that means no big sensor or large aperture lens but those are the prices one pays for ultimate convenience.

Click to expand...

A compact is a compact no matter its focal length. Compared to the XS1 or the HS50 its really just a travel compact with a small sensor. I'm not looking for a camera that's not much bigger than a matchbox, and I imagine that most others aren't either , that's one reason why we own bridge cameras.

Ralph McKenzie said:
My hand fully open from little fingertip to thumb tip is 200 mm across (8-1/2 inches). Trying to hold onto something as tiny as a F900 or the canon SX700 and do serious photography would be laughable. There is not compact made that is a decent replacement for a current Fuji Bridge camera.

Ralph McKenzie said:
The size of the new Sony and Panny only reinforces this as does the design or these cameras. Large high quality lenses coupled with larger sensor will generally require larger body. Its difficult to defeat basic physics, although the backroom boffins will be giving it a good try.

Love dat Fuji
http://akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

I can see your point of view. Bridges do have great handling and so on. It will be interesting to see whether Panny have hit the sweet spot between sensor size and zoom range with the FZ1000. I think they have, I still have my S100fs with the same length of zoom as the new Panny and it does the job.

I think this may be the one that finally tempts me away from my S100fs. I think Panny have taken over from Fuji when it comes to innovative and bridge compact cameras. All Fuji's efforts are going into their APS-C cameras.

J o m s · Jun 16, 2014

Wellington100 said:
Ralph McKenzie said:

Wellington100 said:

Wellington100 said:

An alternative may be a Canon SX700. With its 25-750 zoom and decent IQ, it has similar reach to bridges of 2 years ago but it fits in a jacket pocket. Sure it has no EVF but seeing what Panny is doing with EVF's on tiny compact cameras, an EVF added into a SX700 like the one in the Panny LF1, might be the ultimate bridge camera.

Click to expand...

Ok that means no big sensor or large aperture lens but those are the prices one pays for ultimate convenience.

Click to expand...

A compact is a compact no matter its focal length. Compared to the XS1 or the HS50 its really just a travel compact with a small sensor. I'm not looking for a camera that's not much bigger than a matchbox, and I imagine that most others aren't either , that's one reason why we own bridge cameras.

My hand fully open from little fingertip to thumb tip is 200 mm across (8-1/2 inches). Trying to hold onto something as tiny as a F900 or the canon SX700 and do serious photography would be laughable. There is not compact made that is a decent replacement for a current Fuji Bridge camera.

The size of the new Sony and Panny only reinforces this as does the design or these cameras. Large high quality lenses coupled with larger sensor will generally require larger body. Its difficult to defeat basic physics, although the backroom boffins will be giving it a good try.

Love dat Fuji
http://akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

Click to expand...

I can see your point of view. Bridges do have great handling and so on. It will be interesting to see whether Panny have hit the sweet spot between sensor size and zoom range with the FZ1000. I think they have, I still have my S100fs with the same length of zoom as the new Panny and it does the job.

I think this may be the one that finally tempts me away from my S100fs. I think Panny have taken over from Fuji when it comes to innovative and bridge compact cameras. All Fuji's efforts are going into their APS-C cameras.

alexisgreat · Jun 16, 2014

I dont like what I'm seeing where the superzoom market is going. Canon and Nikon are coming out with 1200+mm cameras that are really slow at the tele end- f/5.9 is barely acceptable, but I find f/6.5 and the newer specs for f/7-f/9 max apertures truly horrendous. I guess they believe all consumers will look at is the zoom ratio. I think the superzoom camera peaked already at 1000mm f/5.6...and based on how these new lenses are being made, I dont hold out much hope that they will be any faster at 700-1000mm than they are at max tele.

The Nikon P600 has some really bad reviews, lots of noise and bad DR.

Larger sensors are the way to go- 1" (I'm still wary of the stability of the XS-1 lens). Nikon 1 ILC might be the best bet right now.

The new Panny at 400mm may not be enough tele for me (why not go higher when 4/3 cameras are fine with up to 600mm f/5.6 lenses?), but the new Nikon 1" superzoom with a (possibly) 2400mm lens at f/9 definitely isn't the way to go either..... I'd like to see a 1" sensor coupled with a 24-1000mm f/5.6 lens.

--
https://supermanalexthegreat.shutterfly.com/

photoreddi · Jun 16, 2014

alexisgreat said:
I dont like what I'm seeing where the superzoom market is going. Canon and Nikon are coming out with 1200+mm cameras that are really slow at the tele end- f/5.9 is barely acceptable, but I find f/6.5 and the newer specs for f/7-f/9 max apertures truly horrendous. I guess they believe all consumers will look at is the zoom ratio. I think the superzoom camera peaked already at 1000mm f/5.6...and based on how these new lenses are being made, I dont hold out much hope that they will be any faster at 700-1000mm than they are at max tele.

The Nikon P600 has some really bad reviews, lots of noise and bad DR.

Larger sensors are the way to go- 1" (I'm still wary of the stability of the XS-1 lens). Nikon 1 ILC might be the best bet right now.

The new Panny at 400mm may not be enough tele for me (why not go higher when 4/3 cameras are fine with up to 600mm f/5.6 lenses?), but the new Nikon 1" superzoom with a (possibly) 2400mm lens at f/9 definitely isn't the way to go either..... I'd like to see a 1" sensor coupled with a 24-1000mm f/5.6 lens.

I agree that f/9 isn't particularly useful, but that's for shooting hand held. For most shots nobody in their right mind would be shooting with a 2400mm focal length so they'd be using a tripod and a slower shutter speed (with appropriately slow moving subjects). But what if the 2400mm lens is zoomed out to 1000mm, wouldn't it have a faster aperture than f/9, maybe even close to f/5.6 or f/6.5? It should be easy to check within seconds when these cameras become available in camera shops, even with no memory cards in the cameras.

alexisgreat · Jun 16, 2014

I'd hope so PR, I'd love to see a faster aperture at 1000mm. We were expecting such an outcome with the HS50 at around 500-700mm but that lens basically flatlined at f/5.6 at an even shorter focal length than the HS10/20/30 lens. Maybe Nikon can do better. Or Canon with that new 20-1900mm lens.

Ralph McKenzie · Jun 17, 2014

alexisgreat said:
Larger sensors are the way to go- 1" (I'm still wary of the stability of the XS-1 lens). Nikon 1 ILC might be the best bet right now.

Larger sensor is definitely a step in the right direction. I would prefer better IQ and AF speed than extra Fl.

alexisgreat said:
The new Panny at 400mm may not be enough tele for me (why not go higher when 4/3 cameras are fine with up to 600mm f/5.6 lenses?), but the new Nikon 1" superzoom with a (possibly) 2400mm lens at f/9 definitely isn't the way to go either..... I'd like to see a 1" sensor coupled with a 24-1000mm f/5.6 lens.

Another reason I really like the look of the Panny. F4.0 at the long end is much better than f5.6 or worse.

Bigger sensor means better cropping. I'd wager you could crop the Panny FZ1000 to 600mm and don't forget that you can use the digital zoom as well, so you may not be as disadvantaged as it may first appear.

Love dat Fuji

A-KiwiRetrospective

Capturing Moments In Time.

akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com

Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

J o m s · Jun 17, 2014

Ralph McKenzie said:
alexisgreat said:

Larger sensors are the way to go- 1" (I'm still wary of the stability of the XS-1 lens). Nikon 1 ILC might be the best bet right now.

Click to expand...

Larger sensor is definitely a step in the right direction. I would prefer better IQ and AF speed than extra Fl.

Ralph McKenzie said:

The new Panny at 400mm may not be enough tele for me (why not go higher when 4/3 cameras are fine with up to 600mm f/5.6 lenses?), but the new Nikon 1" superzoom with a (possibly) 2400mm lens at f/9 definitely isn't the way to go either..... I'd like to see a 1" sensor coupled with a 24-1000mm f/5.6 lens.

Click to expand...

Another reason I really like the look of the Panny. F4.0 at the long end is much better than f5.6 or worse.

Bigger sensor means better cropping. I'd wager you could crop the Panny FZ1000 to 600mm and don't forget that you can use the digital zoom as well, so you may not be as disadvantaged as it may first appear.

Love dat Fuji
http://akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

I'd like to see a configurable sensor size so for example you can set it to 2/3 or 1/1.7 or 1/2.3

and produce longer FL if needed.

Take FZ1000 lens as an example

147mm x 3.93 (for 2/3 mode) = 577mm EFL

147mm x 5.64 (for 1/2.3 mode) = 829mm EFL

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joms_birding
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

photoreddi · Jun 17, 2014

J o m s said:
Ralph McKenzie said:

alexisgreat said:

Larger sensors are the way to go- 1" (I'm still wary of the stability of the XS-1 lens). Nikon 1 ILC might be the best bet right now.

Click to expand...

Larger sensor is definitely a step in the right direction. I would prefer better IQ and AF speed than extra Fl.

J o m s said:

The new Panny at 400mm may not be enough tele for me (why not go higher when 4/3 cameras are fine with up to 600mm f/5.6 lenses?), but the new Nikon 1" superzoom with a (possibly) 2400mm lens at f/9 definitely isn't the way to go either..... I'd like to see a 1" sensor coupled with a 24-1000mm f/5.6 lens.

Click to expand...

Another reason I really like the look of the Panny. F4.0 at the long end is much better than f5.6 or worse.

Bigger sensor means better cropping. I'd wager you could crop the Panny FZ1000 to 600mm and don't forget that you can use the digital zoom as well, so you may not be as disadvantaged as it may first appear.

Love dat Fuji
http://akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

Click to expand...

I'd like to see a configurable sensor size so for example you can set it to 2/3 or 1/1.7 or 1/2.3

Bad idea Joms. It's hard enough for any manufacturer to assemble the sensor precisely enough, let alone Fuji. The tiniest error produces decentered lenses, so Fuji tries to deal with it by putting the lens and sensors together as a unified lens module. Assemble them properly and they stay in alignment.

Make the sensors swappable and that's just asking for trouble. Can't you imagine people asking questions like "why are my photos sometimes ok, but at times the left side is blurry and at other times the right side is blurry?" And multiple sensors would cost more too.

.

J o m s said:
and produce longer FL if needed.

Take FZ1000 lens as an example

147mm x 3.93 (for 2/3 mode) = 577mm EFL

147mm x 5.64 (for 1/2.3 mode) = 829mm EFL

Just because you can imagine it doesn't mean the any camera manufacturer will ever do it. At least they wouldn't do it when designing a quality camera. Maybe if they were designing toy-cams like the $19.95 telescopes they sell in stores like Walgreens, CVS and Rite-Aid.

Lightpath48 · Jun 17, 2014

J o m s said:
Ralph McKenzie said:

alexisgreat said:

Larger sensors are the way to go- 1" (I'm still wary of the stability of the XS-1 lens). Nikon 1 ILC might be the best bet right now.

Click to expand...

Larger sensor is definitely a step in the right direction. I would prefer better IQ and AF speed than extra Fl.

J o m s said:

The new Panny at 400mm may not be enough tele for me (why not go higher when 4/3 cameras are fine with up to 600mm f/5.6 lenses?), but the new Nikon 1" superzoom with a (possibly) 2400mm lens at f/9 definitely isn't the way to go either..... I'd like to see a 1" sensor coupled with a 24-1000mm f/5.6 lens.

Click to expand...

Another reason I really like the look of the Panny. F4.0 at the long end is much better than f5.6 or worse.

Bigger sensor means better cropping. I'd wager you could crop the Panny FZ1000 to 600mm and don't forget that you can use the digital zoom as well, so you may not be as disadvantaged as it may first appear.

Love dat Fuji
http://akiwiretrospective.wordpress.com/
Fuji HS20EXR
Fuji HS10,
Pentax sf7, Pentax zx-50

Click to expand...

I'd like to see a configurable sensor size so for example you can set it to 2/3 or 1/1.7 or 1/2.3

and produce longer FL if needed.

Take FZ1000 lens as an example

147mm x 3.93 (for 2/3 mode) = 577mm EFL

147mm x 5.64 (for 1/2.3 mode) = 829mm EFL

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/joms_birding
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Seems that just using part of the larger 2/3 sensor, by cropping in post would be a simpler answer.

Fuji and the road ahead for bridge cameras

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Veteran Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Forum Enthusiast

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Veteran Member

Lightpath48

Guest

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts