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Zeiss touit - a business case study for future students?

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Canadianguy

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What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.

But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?

Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?

Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.

Be interesting to see if they release any other products in this line or is it end of the line.

Sigma always went where the big boys weren't. Only recently, have they started to take on the big boys head to head in the 35mm, 50mm, 85mm F1.4 series lenses and they priced them below the big boys.

I don't think they would have had much success with their F1.4 lenses if they priced them at a premium compared to C&N.
 
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.

But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?

Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?

Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.

Be interesting to see if they release any other products in this line or is it end of the line.

Sigma always went where the big boys weren't. Only recently, have they started to take on the big boys head to head in the 35mm, 50mm, 85mm F1.4 series lenses and they priced them below the big boys.

I don't think they would have had much success with their F1.4 lenses if they priced them at a premium compared to C&N.
Click to expand...
I think the Touits were principally devised for the Sony e-mount market. A 12mm lens is a significantly wider step from 16mm than Fuji's 14mm (and the Sony 16mm is far from a standout). I'm not sure of the rationale for the 32mm given decent 35mm lenses in both brands. You may well be right about their product positioning and marketing. I don't know how well they've sold, but the discounts are certainly substantial.

Sigma's Art Series lenses are so far only large, fast FF DSLR lenses. I doubt we're going to see another line of premium primes from Sigma for mirror-less. I'm happy to be proven wrong. Samyang may be the one to watch.

Rod
 
Part of the problem for Zeiss in this case is the build quality. Most reviews aren't that impressed by the build quality, particularly the aperture ring.

Given the premium price, the lenses have underperformed, at least in build. Image quality is probably still stellar.
 
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.

But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?

Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?

Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.

Be interesting to see if they release any other products in this line or is it end of the line.

Sigma always went where the big boys weren't. Only recently, have they started to take on the big boys head to head in the 35mm, 50mm, 85mm F1.4 series lenses and they priced them below the big boys.

I don't think they would have had much success with their F1.4 lenses if they priced them at a premium compared to C&N.
Click to expand...
There's recently lunched Zeiss Touit 50mm Macro for $999 - which is a very (no, make it VERY) good lens. Excellent sharpness, color, bokeh etc. So this line is far from end. It basically just started. Now the thing is, regardless the price (which is fair price for premium lenses) we can have 3 touit lenses for under $1800 new. 12, 32 and 50mm. If they will (and I think they will do it) make a 85mm Touit later this year or in the beginning of 2015 - then there will be a perfect lineup of Zeiss Touit lenses for both Fuji ans Sony cameras.
 
Touits make more sense when you consider Sony is no longer making lenses for their Nex/A6000 line.

Sony would be the bigger player compared to Fuji but making a Fuji version makes sense as it has almost the same flange distance as Sony E mount.

Greg.
 
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.
Click to expand...
Those were lenses designed for short flange, so they could only release them in mirrorless mounts, which is primarily Sony and secondarily Fuji. But why would they go ahead with those designs is a mystery.
Canadianguy said:
But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, and it looks like Fuji lenses are better in all respects as well.
Canadianguy said:
Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, but neither is great. Though the Zeiss offerings aren't much better either.
Canadianguy said:
Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.
Click to expand...
Zeiss badge became quite tarnished for the last 10 or so years. Both because of very few stellar products they produced themselves, but also because of licensing their name to rather unremarkable Sony lenses.
 
Donny out of Element here said:
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.

But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?

Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?

Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.

Be interesting to see if they release any other products in this line or is it end of the line.

Sigma always went where the big boys weren't. Only recently, have they started to take on the big boys head to head in the 35mm, 50mm, 85mm F1.4 series lenses and they priced them below the big boys.

I don't think they would have had much success with their F1.4 lenses if they priced them at a premium compared to C&N.
Click to expand...
There's recently lunched Zeiss Touit 50mm Macro for $999 - which is a very (no, make it VERY) good lens.
Click to expand...
How do you know that? Apart from some samples there are no formal tests. And those samples don't look very convincing either.
Donny out of Element here said:
Excellent sharpness, color, bokeh etc. So this line is far from end.
Click to expand...
Again, how do you know that? The fact that the lens was released this year doesn't mean it was just designed. It probably has been planed two years ago. They well may curb all their plans for the new mirrorless designs due to unfavorable market conditions.
 
Will find out in 2 weeks (2 days if I don't have to make a trip). If does not work out, BH will take it back.

But I have several Zeiss and always impressed with their micro contrast and T*. Fuji 35mm is not bad, but color is not that great compared to Zeiss. Brokeh is smooth but somehow I like what I can get with the Nikkor 35/F2.
 
forpetessake said:
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.
Click to expand...
Those were lenses designed for short flange, so they could only release them in mirrorless mounts, which is primarily Sony and secondarily Fuji. But why would they go ahead with those designs is a mystery.
forpetessake said:
But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, and it looks like Fuji lenses are better in all respects as well.
forpetessake said:
Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, but neither is great. Though the Zeiss offerings aren't much better either.
forpetessake said:
Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.
Click to expand...
Zeiss badge became quite tarnished for the last 10 or so years. Both because of very few stellar products they produced themselves, but also because of licensing their name to rather unremarkable Sony lenses.
Click to expand...
Sorry man, but I've got to disagree. The Sony Zeiss lenses are exceptional, particularly the 135.
I've used the 135, 85, and 24-70 and they are excellent in every way. The reviews, and there are many, say the same.

Perhaps there are some losers somewhere, but certainly not with Sony.
 
forpetessake said:
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.
Click to expand...
Those were lenses designed for short flange, so they could only release them in mirrorless mounts, which is primarily Sony and secondarily Fuji. But why would they go ahead with those designs is a mystery.
forpetessake said:
But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, and it looks like Fuji lenses are better in all respects as well.
forpetessake said:
Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, but neither is great. Though the Zeiss offerings aren't much better either.
forpetessake said:
Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.
Click to expand...
Zeiss badge became quite tarnished for the last 10 or so years. Both because of very few stellar products they produced themselves, but also because of licensing their name to rather unremarkable Sony lenses.
Click to expand...
Tarnished? I'd disagree. I don't know how a brand can put out a lens like the 55mm Otus that has been widely praised for it's IQ/resolution. Yes the Otus is outrageously large and expensive, but if you're shooting a Nikon D800E then it terrific.

These Touit lenses are quite good. I have owned the Fuji 35 and Zeiss 32. I sold both, but only regret selling one...the Zeiss. Yes technically they are both close in sharpness, but I like the micro contrast on the zeiss and especially like the colors better. The Fuji definitely has what most would consider better bokeh though.

At these current prices I think the Zeiss is worth choosing over the Fuji, but it's personal preference I think.
 
howieb101 said:
Part of the problem for Zeiss in this case is the build quality. Most reviews aren't that impressed by the build quality, particularly the aperture ring.

Given the premium price, the lenses have underperformed, at least in build. Image quality is probably still stellar.
Click to expand...
Dont throw down such a negative blanket statement. My 32's BQ is robust and tight, and the images it delivers are stellar. it is better than the two 35 fujinons i bought and returned because one had a decentered element and the other an aperture ring that literally broke in my hand. So dont preach about CZ BQ when Fujifilm has their share of problems.
 
Last edited:
jzzmusician said:
jzzmusician said:
Zeiss badge became quite tarnished for the last 10 or so years. Both because of very few stellar products they produced themselves, but also because of licensing their name to rather unremarkable Sony lenses.
Click to expand...
Sorry man, but I've got to disagree. The Sony Zeiss lenses are exceptional, particularly the 135.
I've used the 135, 85, and 24-70 and they are excellent in every way. The reviews, and there are many, say the same.

Perhaps there are some losers somewhere, but certainly not with Sony.
Click to expand...
Its interesting that most of Zeiss's best releases both for Sony and generally in recent years have tended to be on SLR's.

I notice as well that Zeiss SLR lenses that offer exceptional performance do tend to be a bit larger/heavier than rivals so perhaps its a case of there designs not being as well suited for mirrorless?
 
NTNphoto said:
NTNphoto said:
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.
Click to expand...
Those were lenses designed for short flange, so they could only release them in mirrorless mounts, which is primarily Sony and secondarily Fuji. But why would they go ahead with those designs is a mystery.
NTNphoto said:
But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, and it looks like Fuji lenses are better in all respects as well.
NTNphoto said:
Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, but neither is great. Though the Zeiss offerings aren't much better either.
NTNphoto said:
Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.
Click to expand...
Zeiss badge became quite tarnished for the last 10 or so years. Both because of very few stellar products they produced themselves, but also because of licensing their name to rather unremarkable Sony lenses.
Click to expand...
Tarnished? I'd disagree. I don't know how a brand can put out a lens like the 55mm Otus that has been widely praised for it's IQ/resolution. Yes the Otus is outrageously large and expensive, but if you're shooting a Nikon D800E then it terrific.

These Touit lenses are quite good. I have owned the Fuji 35 and Zeiss 32. I sold both, but only regret selling one...the Zeiss. Yes technically they are both close in sharpness, but I like the micro contrast on the zeiss and especially like the colors better. The Fuji definitely has what most would consider better bokeh though.
Click to expand...
I carefully compared the lenses before making my decision. I finally went for Fuji 35/1.4 and Rokinon 12/2.0. The price of this combo was almost the same, but image quality is quite a bit better than Zeiss, not to mention that they are a stop faster than Zeiss.
NTNphoto said:
At these current prices I think the Zeiss is worth choosing over the Fuji, but it's personal preference I think.
Click to expand...
Tests show that Zeiss 32/1.8 is almost as good (bad) as Sony 35/1.8, i.e unremarkable wide open, good at f/5.6. And the 12/2.8 is simply a rather average lens, acceptable at the center at f/8 and edges are never really sharp.

All that woodoo nonsense people ascribe to Zeiss like microcontrast and better colors simply doesn't exist.
 
forpetessake said:
NTNphoto said:
forpetessake said:
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.
Click to expand...
Those were lenses designed for short flange, so they could only release them in mirrorless mounts, which is primarily Sony and secondarily Fuji. But why would they go ahead with those designs is a mystery.
forpetessake said:
But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, and it looks like Fuji lenses are better in all respects as well.
forpetessake said:
Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?
Click to expand...
Yes, but neither is great. Though the Zeiss offerings aren't much better either.
forpetessake said:
Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.
Click to expand...
Zeiss badge became quite tarnished for the last 10 or so years. Both because of very few stellar products they produced themselves, but also because of licensing their name to rather unremarkable Sony lenses.
Click to expand...
Tarnished? I'd disagree. I don't know how a brand can put out a lens like the 55mm Otus that has been widely praised for it's IQ/resolution. Yes the Otus is outrageously large and expensive, but if you're shooting a Nikon D800E then it terrific.

These Touit lenses are quite good. I have owned the Fuji 35 and Zeiss 32. I sold both, but only regret selling one...the Zeiss. Yes technically they are both close in sharpness, but I like the micro contrast on the zeiss and especially like the colors better. The Fuji definitely has what most would consider better bokeh though.
Click to expand...
I carefully compared the lenses before making my decision. I finally went for Fuji 35/1.4 and Rokinon 12/2.0. The price of this combo was almost the same, but image quality is quite a bit better than Zeiss, not to mention that they are a stop faster than Zeiss.
forpetessake said:
At these current prices I think the Zeiss is worth choosing over the Fuji, but it's personal preference I think.
Click to expand...
Tests show that Zeiss 32/1.8 is almost as good (bad) as Sony 35/1.8, i.e unremarkable wide open, good at f/5.6. And the 12/2.8 is simply a rather average lens, acceptable at the center at f/8 and edges are never really sharp.

All that woodoo nonsense people ascribe to Zeiss like microcontrast and better colors simply doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
What tests? You're just throwing stuff out there. You carefully compared them? How? Via online samples? Not through you own experience of using both the zeiss and fuji?

Even the comparison at fuji rumors that is typically biased to Fuji said the zeiss is sharper at 1.8 at closer distances than the Fuji. At further distances it evens up and stopped down it's harder to tell the difference.

Have you ever owned any Zeiss lenses? No ? Then you can't really say anything about the color performance. I've owned two(not including old medium format lenses) The 32mm and a manual focus 50mm M mount and both of these were stellar performers and the color rendition was warmer than that of other lenses. I believe it has to do with their T* coating. Now that doesn't seem to make a difference to you which is fine, but don't ascribe your own personal needs to other peoples needs especially if you haven't personally used the items your talking about.
 
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.

But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?

Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?

Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.

Be interesting to see if they release any other products in this line or is it end of the line.

Sigma always went where the big boys weren't. Only recently, have they started to take on the big boys head to head in the 35mm, 50mm, 85mm F1.4 series lenses and they priced them below the big boys.

I don't think they would have had much success with their F1.4 lenses if they priced them at a premium compared to C&N.
Click to expand...
Fully agree. You could add further weight considering the Zeiss 50mm macro. OK, its 1:1 but is close to the 60mm Fuji which is optically very good. I can't understand why zeiss did not release a 85/90/100mm 1:1 macro - given there is no Fuji equivalent it would have had me reaching for my wallet!
 
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?
Click to expand...

I don't think Zeiss counted on Fuji lenses being so damn good. I think they figured they'd easily beat Fuji's lenses in overall IQ.
 
forpetessake said:
Donny out of Element here said:
Canadianguy said:
What were they thinking when they launched this line?

Hey lets build 2 lenses for a low volume mount (compared to C&N) - 32mm F1.8 and a 12mm F2.8 lens and lets price is at about double what other people charge because we build premium products.

But hey doesn't Fuji already have a 35mm F1.4 & a 14mm F2.8 lens?

Doesn't Sony have a 35mm F1.8 & 16mm F2.8 lens?

Looks like someone lost their nerve and doesn't want to sit on these in their warehouse anymore. Fire sale time! Only problem - premium products NEVER go on sale. If they do - it only to special people and never advertised. Otherwise you lose your premium status.

Be interesting to see if they release any other products in this line or is it end of the line.

Sigma always went where the big boys weren't. Only recently, have they started to take on the big boys head to head in the 35mm, 50mm, 85mm F1.4 series lenses and they priced them below the big boys.

I don't think they would have had much success with their F1.4 lenses if they priced them at a premium compared to C&N.
Click to expand...
There's recently lunched Zeiss Touit 50mm Macro for $999 - which is a very (no, make it VERY) good lens.
Click to expand...
How do you know that? Apart from some samples there are no formal tests. And those samples don't look very convincing either.
Click to expand...

Loading…

photomadd.com

there are more samples around and I would say it is at least the only Macro lens with such 1:1 abilities in Fuji X mount.
forpetessake said:
forpetessake said:
Excellent sharpness, color, bokeh etc. So this line is far from end.
Click to expand...
Again, how do you know that? The fact that the lens was released this year doesn't mean it was just designed. It probably has been planed two years ago. They well may curb all their plans for the new mirrorless designs due to unfavorable market conditions.
Click to expand...
Market conditions are unfavorable most of time I can remember, except a small period in the past. Nevertheless if there are people who will buy it, we will have lenses.
 
It's a pity to see so many fanboys fanatically protecting Fuji lenses, just to diminish quality of Zeiss. So many bad words have been thrown by folks here about Zeiss. And yet there are people who know true value and what Zeiss really is. The fact is by blindly bashing any other manufacturer, except Fuji - you guys will be the first to suffer in the long run. Those who don't understand that are prone to future failures.
 
I started the topic not to bash the quality of Zeiss lenses but just to point out that Zeiss marketing seems to be sucking and blowing at the same time.

If you want to market your product as a Premium item - NEVER EVER put it on sale to the general public. It will devalue your brand over night.

If you want to position yourself as a premium brand - you must have the intestinal fortitude to hold the line and sit on inventory even if it doesn't move and they should never have had build so much inventory that they are forced into selling it at such a high discount.
Donny out of Element here said:
It's a pity to see so many fanboys fanatically protecting Fuji lenses, just to diminish quality of Zeiss. So many bad words have been thrown by folks here about Zeiss. And yet there are people who know true value and what Zeiss really is. The fact is by blindly bashing any other manufacturer, except Fuji - you guys will be the first to suffer in the long run. Those who don't understand that are prone to future failures.
Click to expand...
 
Regarding the Zeiss 12mm vs. the Fuji 14mm - what no one brought up so far is that, for wide angles, 'only' 2mm makes a significant difference in viewing angle. So they're not really comparable. I truly appreciate the extreme wide angle effect, and since the Fuji 10-24mm simply is too bulky and heavy for me, and I didn't want a Samyang because it's MF only, and I've always liked the Zeiss glass with my Contax G2 (which I still have but don't use - what a shame) I decided to go for the Touit 12/2.8. Before the rebate, unfortunately. So far I have no regrets but I haven't had much chance trying it out in the 3 weeks that I own it...
 
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