Which of ultra zoom cameras?

Hi,

I am thinking of buying a camera with let's say at least 8x zoom. It has to have at least 3mp (but I prefer 4).

I would use it for holidays, familly pictures and exploring my back yard. The zoom is important as I have been to Kenya last year on safari and lacked zoom.

Don't want to spent a fortune so I give it a limit of 1000$ (including extra rechargable bateries, memory card 256mb and maybe also some other adds).

Also, can anyone tell me how much zoom can I use without using tripod to get a still photo?

I am interesting in your opinion as different rewies don't offer me comparison.
Thank you

Hi, Irena.

Let me begin for the end: a golden rule says: to avoid blurred image from camera shake (handheld) you shall use shutter speed 1/x equal or higher than focal length in mm (35 mm camera equivalent). that's to say, you shall use at least 1/250 s with a 250 mm tele, 1/500 with a 500 mm, etc.

But, if you are aiming to a moving subject, you shall go 2 or 3 times faster. I.e., using a 10x zoom at full tele, you shall go to 1/1000 s.

The result is that you need a fast lens (means a lens having a wide maximum iris aperture: f/3.5 or so at max tele) or you will be limited to use telephoto only in good light.
Camera choice:
Olympus C740UZ (3 Mp) and C750UZ (4 Mp) have 10x zoom (380 mm)
Nikon CP5700 (5 Mp) has 8x zoom (280 mm)
Also others! click on Buying Guide here on the left and make your own search.

Last - consider an alternative: buying a normal zoom camera (3x to 5x) plus a teleconverter add-on lens (2x). Why? You will get a lighter and smaller camera, and add weight and bulk of long telephoto only when you need (e.g.: when you go for a Safari). Example:
Nikon CP4500 + TC-E2 (154 - 308 mm)
Hope this helps.
--
Rapick
http://www.pbase.com/rapick
My last work:
http://space.virgilio.it/[email protected]/index.html

irena said:

Hi,
I am thinking of buying a camera with let's say at least 8x zoom.
It has to have at least 3mp (but I prefer 4).
I would use it for holidays, familly pictures and exploring my back
yard. The zoom is important as I have been to Kenya last year on
safari and lacked zoom.
Don't want to spent a fortune so I give it a limit of 1000$
(including extra rechargable bateries, memory card 256mb and maybe
also some other adds).
Also, can anyone tell me how much zoom can I use without using
tripod to get a still photo?

I am interesting in your opinion as different rewies don't offer me
comparison.
Thank you

Click to expand...

Panasonic DMC FZ1. - 12x optical zoom 35-420mm in 35mm equivalent - (+3x digital too). Image stablised Leica lens with a CONSTANT f2.8 all the way through. Nominally 2mp but with the quality of 3mp. Rated 91/100 by "What Digital Camera Magazine" July edition.

Rapic's data on necessary shutter speeds is absolutely vital, and the Image Stablisation will make life a lot easier for you. I would expect you to get better wildlife shots with this camera than a one of the 4mp alternatives without IS.

+++++
John.
Visitors welcome to browse
http://www.pbase.com/johnfr/galleries

rapick said:

Last - consider an alternative: buying a normal zoom camera (3x
to 5x) plus a teleconverter add-on lens (2x). Why? You will get a
lighter and smaller camera, and add weight and bulk of long
telephoto only when you need (e.g.: when you go for a Safari).
Example:
Nikon CP4500 + TC-E2 (154 - 308 mm)
Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Hm, I never thought of it this way. I guess this would also do the trick. But I think it's much more expensive so I would rather stick to a camera with more zoom.

I could live with the size and weight of ultra zoom models as they are already much smaller than non-digital cameras.

Yes, thank you for your answer, it helped.

john farrar said:

Panasonic DMC FZ1. - 12x optical zoom 35-420mm in 35mm equivalent -
(+3x digital too). Image stablised Leica lens with a CONSTANT f2.8
all the way through. Nominally 2mp but with the quality of 3mp.

Click to expand...

Is this a new model? (by the way, I am from Slovenia so it takes longer for cameras to appear on our market - and unfortunatelly they are more expensive).

Just a comparison (reference: current NY Camera - Germany - price list).
Olympus C-750 UZ + 256 Mb CF = 695 EUR
Nikon CP-4500 + TC-E2 +256 Mb CF = 836 EUR

I would say the difference is justified by superior Nikon's construction quality (full metal body!) but ... have a direct look, hold in your hands, and decide yourself!

Definitely, I shall agree with John F., IS (Image Stabilization) is a great feature for an ultra-zoom. It allows you to use twice the shutter time (e.g. 1/500 instead of 1/1000). You can get the same using Nikon's BSS (Best Shot Selection), most of the times, though. And the new Toshiba ... well I guess it a wrongly designed camera: extraordinary lens, but just point-and-shoot operation (no manual control at all!), so you can't take full advantage of what the Leica 12x IS lens could provide.
Ciao.
--
Rapick
http://www.pbase.com/rapick
My last work:
http://space.virgilio.it/[email protected]/index.html

irena said:

irena said:

Last - consider an alternative: buying a normal zoom camera (3x
to 5x) plus a teleconverter add-on lens (2x). Why? You will get a
lighter and smaller camera, and add weight and bulk of long
telephoto only when you need (e.g.: when you go for a Safari).
Example:
Nikon CP4500 + TC-E2 (154 - 308 mm)
Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Hm, I never thought of it this way. I guess this would also do the
trick. But I think it's much more expensive so I would rather stick
to a camera with more zoom.
I could live with the size and weight of ultra zoom models as they
are already much smaller than non-digital cameras.

Yes, thank you for your answer, it helped.

Click to expand...

irena said:

Is this a new model? (by the way, I am from Slovenia so it takes
longer for cameras to appear on our market - and unfortunatelly
they are more expensive).

Click to expand...

Yes, it's new. Here is a European site which stocks it and lists the technical specifications

http://www.nomatica.com

Search within the site for Panasonic FZ1. They have a picture of a black camera there.

You may also find it listed at at Amazon.co.uk

Regards,
John.

Has no manual controls, and is stuck at F2.8. Yup. 2.8 for macro shots, landscape shots, all shots. Aperature priority? Shutter Priority? Any manual controls? Nope. Well, ISO I guess. And threads for lenses? Nope. Any manual focus once you've found a range? Nope. It's good at one thing, and one thing only.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/CAMDB/compare_results.php?sections%5B%5D=411

As for getting a Nikon with a 2X lens? That's way bulkier than my Olympus C700, which can add a 1.7 telephoto to give me 646mm.

IS is very nice, but not always necessary, especially in African sunlight. I've often used an open window as a brace for my camera shooting. If not, even a monopod does the trick for many shots. Most of my 10X zoom shots are handheld though. You can see them here when you select the birds section.

http://www.skulpt.com

I'm not saying get the C700 (which I just got for $240 mind you). If you can, look at the C740 or 750. Not sure about Toshiba image quality, but it does have full manual controls and more. If you need IS, I'd rather look at some older cameras with full manual like the Olympus C2100 and the Canon Pro90IS.

Here are 3 pics taken with my C700 recently. All 3 are handheld and shot in the wild.... Sorry about the file sizes..







Brianos 2.1

Rapick said:

irena said:

rapick said:

Last - consider an alternative: buying a normal zoom camera (3x
to 5x) plus a teleconverter add-on lens (2x). Why? You will get a
lighter and smaller camera, and add weight and bulk of long
telephoto only when you need (e.g.: when you go for a Safari).
Example:
Nikon CP4500 + TC-E2 (154 - 308 mm)
Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Hm, I never thought of it this way. I guess this would also do the
trick. But I think it's much more expensive so I would rather stick
to a camera with more zoom.
I could live with the size and weight of ultra zoom models as they
are already much smaller than non-digital cameras.

Yes, thank you for your answer, it helped.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

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Maybe have a look at the Fuji S60Z (6xzoom) + Tele converter ? Full manual control.

Cheers
mips

irena said:

Hi,
I am thinking of buying a camera with let's say at least 8x zoom.
It has to have at least 3mp (but I prefer 4).
I would use it for holidays, familly pictures and exploring my back
yard. The zoom is important as I have been to Kenya last year on
safari and lacked zoom.
Don't want to spent a fortune so I give it a limit of 1000$
(including extra rechargable bateries, memory card 256mb and maybe
also some other adds).
Also, can anyone tell me how much zoom can I use without using
tripod to get a still photo?

I am interesting in your opinion as different rewies don't offer me
comparison.
Thank you

Click to expand...

BrianOS 2.1 said:

Has no manual controls, and is stuck at F2.8. Yup. 2.8 for macro
shots, landscape shots, all shots. Aperature priority? Shutter
Priority? Any manual controls? Nope. Well, ISO I guess. And threads
for lenses? Nope. Any manual focus once you've found a range? Nope.
It's good at one thing, and one thing only.

Click to expand...

Brian, it was my understand that the constant F2.8 meant that you did not loose any light (f stops) when zooming throughout the entire range like most other zooms do. Most loose at least one f stop. It was my belief that the Panasonic did in fact have smaller lens openings available and could be somewhat controlled by changing modes.

... may be found here:

http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz1-review/index.shtml

irena said:

Hi,
I am thinking of buying a camera with let's say at least 8x zoom.
It has to have at least 3mp (but I prefer 4).
I would use it for holidays, familly pictures and exploring my back
yard. The zoom is important as I have been to Kenya last year on
safari and lacked zoom.
Don't want to spent a fortune so I give it a limit of 1000$
(including extra rechargable bateries, memory card 256mb and maybe
also some other adds).
Also, can anyone tell me how much zoom can I use without using
tripod to get a still photo?

I am interesting in your opinion as different rewies don't offer me
comparison.
Thank you

Click to expand...

another possibility is to go back in time to the Olympus C2100. It is a 2 megapixel camera with a 10x zoom, and it has image stabilization, a great feature which eliminates camera shake when handholding the camera. The extra zoom capability (i.e. above 8x) makes up for the low pixel count. Add a B300 teleconverter and you have a great camera for long distance pictures. I think the 2100 sells for $200-400 on ebay...

--
bayview

Hi RAL. That is true that there is no light lost throughout the telephoto range. This is a good thing. But it also shows (at least on the Imaging Resource site), that there is only 1 Fstop for all shots. Just 2.8. No control over more depth of field, no manual controls for shutterspeed or anything.

I think this can be a great telephoto camera, but not much else. It seems extremely limited. It might and should be very good at the long range telephoto shots. Just don't expect any kind of flexible macro shooting at F2.8 or landscape shots.

Brianos 2.1

RAL said:

BrianOS 2.1 said:

Has no manual controls, and is stuck at F2.8. Yup. 2.8 for macro
shots, landscape shots, all shots. Aperature priority? Shutter
Priority? Any manual controls? Nope. Well, ISO I guess. And threads
for lenses? Nope. Any manual focus once you've found a range? Nope.
It's good at one thing, and one thing only.

Click to expand...

Brian, it was my understand that the constant F2.8 meant that you
did not loose any light (f stops) when zooming throughout the
entire range like most other zooms do. Most loose at least one f
stop. It was my belief that the Panasonic did in fact have smaller
lens openings available and could be somewhat controlled by
changing modes.

Click to expand...

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------------------------------------------------------------------
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It seems to be more around the $450 mark. They are still in very strong demand even though they are dated cameras. Still a great camera.

Brianos 2.1

bayview wrote:
I think the 2100

bayview said:

sells for $200-400 on ebay...

--
bayview

Click to expand...

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http://www.thehungersite.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
My New 2003 Portfolio:
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Irena,

The old fashioned, or classic, name for an image stabilisation device is a tripod.

Whatever you end up buying, you should add a tripod to the shopping list. Look at it as though it was a gadget to enable you to get sharp photographs, use slower speeds and hence smaller apertures and get marvellous panoramic shots...

As for the camera, I'd go for the Olympus UZ or something more modern like the 5050 with an Olympus tele extender.

Lastly, if you are going away on a once in a life time trip or safari, then you'll need to budget for lots of storeage media (CF Cards or similar) or else take along a laptop and download you pictures every night. Then have a good look at them and plan the re-takes for the next day. If you can burn them on to a CD-R in the laptop, then even better.

Have fun, David.

Minolta 7i.

You can pick up the Fuji 602Z for around $600. Pemeraal has the Tcon 17 for $113. That would leave you enough to get a Micro Drive.

mips said:

Cheers
mips

irena said:

Hi,
I am thinking of buying a camera with let's say at least 8x zoom.
It has to have at least 3mp (but I prefer 4).
I would use it for holidays, familly pictures and exploring my back
yard. The zoom is important as I have been to Kenya last year on
safari and lacked zoom.
Don't want to spent a fortune so I give it a limit of 1000$
(including extra rechargable bateries, memory card 256mb and maybe
also some other adds).
Also, can anyone tell me how much zoom can I use without using
tripod to get a still photo?

I am interesting in your opinion as different rewies don't offer me
comparison.
Thank you

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

David Hughes said:

Irena,

The old fashioned, or classic, name for an image stabilisation
device is a tripod.

Whatever you end up buying, you should add a tripod to the shopping
list. Look at it as though it was a gadget to enable you to get
sharp photographs, use slower speeds and hence smaller apertures
and get marvellous panoramic shots...

As for the camera, I'd go for the Olympus UZ or something more
modern like the 5050 with an Olympus tele extender.

Lastly, if you are going away on a once in a life time trip or
safari, then you'll need to budget for lots of storeage media (CF
Cards or similar) or else take along a laptop and download you
pictures every night. Then have a good look at them and plan the
re-takes for the next day. If you can burn them on to a CD-R in the
laptop, then even better.

Have fun, David.

Click to expand...

Instead, I say: go light and slim!

No doubt a tripod is the BEST stabilisation device, but ... how can you set it up in a crowded 4WD or coach? what help would you get from it while shooting from a boat? How much nervous will become your group trip fellows while you cause delay with it, and steal the best viewpoint in front of a goregeous landscape?

Carrying a laptop on a safari or a long range tour??? An encouragement to burglars and pocketpickers. 4-6 lbs constantly hanged to your shoulders. 1,000 to 2,000 USD value exposed to dust, moisture, shakes, extreme temperature! OK for as much memory cards as you can afford to buy. And a spare battery. You can discover that electric power is shut down at 10 PM in your hotel or lodge, and your charger, as well, eventually, your laptop, will become a useless piece of plastic.

Last, but not least: any additional piece of unknown stuff you are carrying is a potential annoyance with Customs and Security: last time, in some Indian airport, I spent 15 minutes, and risked to miss the flight, to make the security guys sure that my tiny spare li-ion battery couldn't be a bomb!
--
Rapick
http://www.pbase.com/rapick
My last work:
http://space.virgilio.it/[email protected]/index.html

Good points. I think middle ground can be a monopod, although I doubt any kind of monopod/tripod would do the trick on a rocking boat. : )

As for being in a 4WD, I've used the door as a place to secure my camera down to take pics. This of course only works when the car engine is off.

As for storage, I took a 12gb Sima Image Bank to the tropics for a month. The small size kept it out of view and kept me taking pictures. Boy could I have used my C700 on that trip. : )

Brianos 2.1

Rapick said:

David Hughes said:

Irena,

The old fashioned, or classic, name for an image stabilisation
device is a tripod.

Whatever you end up buying, you should add a tripod to the shopping
list. Look at it as though it was a gadget to enable you to get
sharp photographs, use slower speeds and hence smaller apertures
and get marvellous panoramic shots...

As for the camera, I'd go for the Olympus UZ or something more
modern like the 5050 with an Olympus tele extender.

Lastly, if you are going away on a once in a life time trip or
safari, then you'll need to budget for lots of storeage media (CF
Cards or similar) or else take along a laptop and download you
pictures every night. Then have a good look at them and plan the
re-takes for the next day. If you can burn them on to a CD-R in the
laptop, then even better.

Have fun, David.

Click to expand...

Instead, I say: go light and slim!
No doubt a tripod is the BEST stabilisation device, but ... how can
you set it up in a crowded 4WD or coach? what help would you get
from it while shooting from a boat? How much nervous will become
your group trip fellows while you cause delay with it, and steal
the best viewpoint in front of a goregeous landscape?
Carrying a laptop on a safari or a long range tour??? An
encouragement to burglars and pocketpickers. 4-6 lbs constantly
hanged to your shoulders. 1,000 to 2,000 USD value exposed to dust,
moisture, shakes, extreme temperature! OK for as much memory cards
as you can afford to buy. And a spare battery. You can discover
that electric power is shut down at 10 PM in your hotel or lodge,
and your charger, as well, eventually, your laptop, will become a
useless piece of plastic.
Last, but not least: any additional piece of unknown stuff you
are carrying is a potential annoyance with Customs and Security:
last time, in some Indian airport, I spent 15 minutes, and risked
to miss the flight, to make the security guys sure that my tiny
spare li-ion battery couldn't be a bomb!
--
Rapick
http://www.pbase.com/rapick
My last work:
http://space.virgilio.it/[email protected]/index.html

Click to expand...

--
http://www.thehungersite.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
My New 2003 Portfolio:
http://www.skulpt.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
'THE' graphic design directory...
http://www.adigitaldreamer.com

The Panasonic DMC-FZ1 has a f-stop range from 2.8 through 8. Maximum apiture stays at f2.8 through-out the zoom range. The actual f-stop selected depends on lighting with the camera usually at f5 or so. It seems to select f2.8 only when necessary (i.e. low light).

Mike