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Scanning film negatives with an ES-E28

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Bert_Fud

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I have a 5700 and recently I purchased the ES-E28 slide scanner and the UR-E8 adapter and together with the ES-E28 to UR-E8 modification from Next Photo Canada, I have a very nice slide copying setup.

Since I got this setup assembled a few days ago, I have scanned several slides with very good results.

Today however I tried to copy a film negative and I must admit I am at a loss as to how to do this properly.

I loaded up the negative strip in the holder that came with the ES-E28, pointed the camera at that white wall I have been using for the slide shots and took the photo.

The resulting image looked correct. That is, it looked just like the original negative (mostly red).

However, when I take it into Paint Shop Pro and use the ‘Negative’ option, the resulting image is very blue. VERY blue.

What am I doing wrong here? How do you use a slide scanner like this to scan film negatives?
 
I just had a thought. I am currently using the 'white balance preset' function on a white wall, to assure that the camera knows what white is when taking the shots. And using this same white wall for the shots.

Could I perhaps get the initial 'white' reading off a different color surface when i am doing shots of the negatives? Whast color would that be then?
 
I haven't tried this yet (plan to get an ES-E28 in the future) so I am not speaking from experience. I think you are on the right track with the white balance in the camera. What are you using for a light source. Peter iNova's book recommends your computer monitor with a blank Word or equivalent document on the screen. Do your white balance off that.

If you still have a problem, try taking a "no negative" shot. Process as you would a negative. If it comes out blue on your screen, use it to set your white balance and then try a negative.

I hope this helps. Let me know how it comes out.

George
Brother Jacob said:
I just had a thought. I am currently using the 'white balance
preset' function on a white wall, to assure that the camera knows
what white is when taking the shots. And using this same white wall
for the shots.

Could I perhaps get the initial 'white' reading off a different
color surface when i am doing shots of the negatives? Whast color
would that be then?
Click to expand...
 
Brother Jacob said:
I just had a thought. I am currently using the 'white balance
preset' function on a white wall, to assure that the camera knows
what white is when taking the shots. And using this same white wall
for the shots.

Could I perhaps get the initial 'white' reading off a different
color surface when i am doing shots of the negatives? Whast color
would that be then?
Click to expand...
I happened to buy an ES-E28, too, and made the first trial yesterday on some negatives (not yet tried slides). Got tremendous color cast (but magenta, not blue). Actually, I tried shooting against the sky, and therefore preset the white balance to the sky ... but this shall not be correct.

After that, however, i noted that the burnt negative is not transparent white (slide film is!). So my further experiment wil be: white balance preset aiming (correctly) to a white surface BUT through a burnt photogram.

I'll try and get back with the results. Meanwhile, if someone else could provide good tips ...
--
Rapick
http://www.pbase.com/rapick
My last work:
http://space.virgilio.it/[email protected]/index.html
 
I have had some success with this method..

1. Take a white reading off a white wall while holding a blank negative (one at the end of the film). This made the view throuh the camera look like it has a blue hue.

2. Take a shot of a negative and reverse (negative it in photoshop).

This almost worked, but was just not right.

I hate the guess work.

This orange mask used on negatives must be a documented standard color. Otherwise how would photo labs know how to compensate for it.

What is this color? What is it's oposite? And is there a filter that is that color?
 
Please read this http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/techniques/negative_film/ very complicated, but works.
Brother Jacob said:
I have a 5700 and recently I purchased the ES-E28 slide scanner and
the UR-E8 adapter and together with the ES-E28 to UR-E8
modification from Next Photo Canada, I have a very nice slide
copying setup.

Since I got this setup assembled a few days ago, I have scanned
several slides with very good results.

Today however I tried to copy a film negative and I must admit I am
at a loss as to how to do this properly.

I loaded up the negative strip in the holder that came with the
ES-E28, pointed the camera at that white wall I have been using for
the slide shots and took the photo.

The resulting image looked correct. That is, it looked just like
the original negative (mostly red).

However, when I take it into Paint Shop Pro and use the ‘Negative’
option, the resulting image is very blue. VERY blue.

What am I doing wrong here? How do you use a slide scanner like
this to scan film negatives?
Click to expand...
--
JL
http://www.termotronic.com/challenge/
FCAS Member
 
You are right. Complicated. I don't want to have to do that to every negative i photograph. i have 100s (maybe 1000s) to capture. It would take me years.

I want to set the camera, take the shot, and just do the regular tweaking to the image once I have it in the computer, with the addition of reversing it (negative wise).

Thanks for your input. I will give it a try, but I don't think it is a long term solution.
Jose Luis said:
Please read this
http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/techniques/negative_film/ very
complicated, but works.
Click to expand...
 
Do you just use the CP4500 negative setting and get good results.
Brother Jacob said:
I have a 5700 and recently I purchased the ES-E28 slide scanner and
the UR-E8 adapter and together with the ES-E28 to UR-E8
modification from Next Photo Canada, I have a very nice slide
copying setup.

Since I got this setup assembled a few days ago, I have scanned
several slides with very good results.

Today however I tried to copy a film negative and I must admit I am
at a loss as to how to do this properly.

I loaded up the negative strip in the holder that came with the
ES-E28, pointed the camera at that white wall I have been using for
the slide shots and took the photo.

The resulting image looked correct. That is, it looked just like
the original negative (mostly red).

However, when I take it into Paint Shop Pro and use the ‘Negative’
option, the resulting image is very blue. VERY blue.

What am I doing wrong here? How do you use a slide scanner like
this to scan film negatives?
Click to expand...
 
Brother Jacob said:
I have a 5700 and recently I purchased the ES-E28 slide scanner and
the UR-E8 adapter and together with the ES-E28 to UR-E8
modification from Next Photo Canada, I have a very nice slide
copying setup.

Since I got this setup assembled a few days ago, I have scanned
several slides with very good results.

Today however I tried to copy a film negative and I must admit I am
at a loss as to how to do this properly.

I loaded up the negative strip in the holder that came with the
ES-E28, pointed the camera at that white wall I have been using for
the slide shots and took the photo.

The resulting image looked correct. That is, it looked just like
the original negative (mostly red).

However, when I take it into Paint Shop Pro and use the ‘Negative’
option, the resulting image is very blue. VERY blue.

What am I doing wrong here? How do you use a slide scanner like
this to scan film negatives?
Click to expand...
From my days in a 35mm control lab I can offer the following:

In technical jargon the light orange unexposed leader in the film is called 'D-Min' and, as it is reversal film (C-41 process) it will yield 'black' on the print. We used to sample it regularly with a Macbeth densitometer in RGB, but I don't remember typical readings.

Similarly, the overexposed parts of the developed film is called 'D-Max' and it will yield 'white' on the print. We never checked D-Max but if we did it would yield very high numbers.

I wonder what would happen if you took unexposed, developed film on a light-table and took a macro digital pic of it. Then put it in PS or PSE and examine the histogram. Would that give you some idea of how to correct your white point?

In any event, knowing the 'words' to search on in Google will yield a wealth of information. Also, look for Nikon Film Scanner tutorials that go into it very thoroughly.

And when you find out how to do it, please post the results!!!

--
Jerry
CP4500 Canon i950
 
http://www.pbase.com/rrhodge/turkeypoint

Can't remember which were CP 995, and which were CP 4500. Both worked good.

I shoot against a blank page in MS Word.

BTW on the CP 4500 In the lens menus there's 2 options, Positive (transparencies/slides) and Inverse color (negatives). Don't know about the rest of the CP series, but probably similar.

Best Regards, Richard
wgm-cp4500 said:
Brother Jacob said:
I have a 5700 and recently I purchased the ES-E28 slide scanner and
the UR-E8 adapter and together with the ES-E28 to UR-E8
modification from Next Photo Canada, I have a very nice slide
copying setup.

Since I got this setup assembled a few days ago, I have scanned
several slides with very good results.

Today however I tried to copy a film negative and I must admit I am
at a loss as to how to do this properly.

I loaded up the negative strip in the holder that came with the
ES-E28, pointed the camera at that white wall I have been using for
the slide shots and took the photo.

The resulting image looked correct. That is, it looked just like
the original negative (mostly red).

However, when I take it into Paint Shop Pro and use the ‘Negative’
option, the resulting image is very blue. VERY blue.

What am I doing wrong here? How do you use a slide scanner like
this to scan film negatives?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
already do that...

Still end up having to do lots of colour correction post-processing!!!

Didn't you find strange colour casts when you copied negs?

My negs are mostly Kodacolor 200.

What sort of post-processing did you have to do on those examples?
Richard Hodge said:
http://www.pbase.com/rrhodge/turkeypoint

Can't remember which were CP 995, and which were CP 4500. Both
worked good.

I shoot against a blank page in MS Word.

BTW on the CP 4500 In the lens menus there's 2 options, Positive
(transparencies/slides) and Inverse color (negatives). Don't know
about the rest of the CP series, but probably similar.
Click to expand...
 
wgm-cp4500 said:
already do that...

Still end up having to do lots of colour correction post-processing!!!

Didn't you find strange colour casts when you copied negs?

My negs are mostly Kodacolor 200.

What sort of post-processing did you have to do on those examples?
Click to expand...
 
wgm-cp4500 said:
at that price its probably worth buying a dedicated film scanner...

0.8Eur x 1000 images!!!!
Click to expand...
Now, I posted my ES-E28 nagative scanning worksheet here:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1007&message=5409910

It is just a first trial, and therefore results are not excellent . But, after due refining, the method is likely to work! It is also rather stright-forward. And if you haven't got that large amount of film negs to digitalize (It is my case: I mostly shot slides) you will save let's say 700 Eur!.
Then everybody is warmly encouraged to try it out and suggest any improvement!
Thanks.
--
Rapick
http://www.pbase.com/rapick
My last work:
http://space.virgilio.it/[email protected]/index.html
 
Richard Hodge said:
http://www.pbase.com/rrhodge/turkeypoint

Can't remember which were CP 995, and which were CP 4500. Both
worked good.

I shoot against a blank page in MS Word.

BTW on the CP 4500 In the lens menus there's 2 options, Positive
(transparencies/slides) and Inverse color (negatives). Don't know
about the rest of the CP series, but probably similar.

Best Regards, Richard
Click to expand...
For setting the white point on the 4500 look here: http://www.nikon-euro.com/nikoneuro_en/faq/general/en/FAQ_gen_en_34.htm

Your pictures are very good. Just one question: How did you manage to eliminate the dust and dirt you normally find on old negs? Your pics are remarkabley clean.
--
Jerry
CP4500 Canon i950
 
I have the ES-E28, and have used it with my CP990 and my CP5000. My best bet was to use the outdoor sky in bright daylight. What I found was slides copied pretty well, but negatives were always a lot of work. I then bought a Minolta Dual lll film scanner. The Minolta does a fantastic job, and it is relatively inexpensive. The big thing is that it is consistent. So far, I have copied over 500 slides. I took the JPegs to Sams Club, and had them printed on a Fuji Frontier. The technician could not believe that they were copies of slides that were 30 - 40 years old.

If you have a lot of slides to copy, the film scanner is the way to go. Nikon makes some good ones, but they are more expensive.
Brother Jacob said:
I have a 5700 and recently I purchased the ES-E28 slide scanner and
the UR-E8 adapter and together with the ES-E28 to UR-E8
modification from Next Photo Canada, I have a very nice slide
copying setup.

Since I got this setup assembled a few days ago, I have scanned
several slides with very good results.

Today however I tried to copy a film negative and I must admit I am
at a loss as to how to do this properly.

I loaded up the negative strip in the holder that came with the
ES-E28, pointed the camera at that white wall I have been using for
the slide shots and took the photo.

The resulting image looked correct. That is, it looked just like
the original negative (mostly red).

However, when I take it into Paint Shop Pro and use the ‘Negative’
option, the resulting image is very blue. VERY blue.

What am I doing wrong here? How do you use a slide scanner like
this to scan film negatives?
Click to expand...
--
--Ed--

http://www.pbase.com/edmondm
PBase supporter
Member FCAS
 
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