EM1 vs Fuji XE-2

RichRMA said:

RichRMA wrote:

The Nikon D7000 with the 16-85mm should produce outstanding images that none of the Olympus cameras will match, if your goal is ultimate image quality.

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Not true for me. I have had both the em5 and d7000. I print rather large and can't tell the difference. Sold the d7000. Just my opinion.

You can expect arguments.You write somehting and someone else does not agree with you at all. It seems to be commonplace on a forum....

I can only suggest going to a camera store that has what your looking at and try before you buy. Take a memory card with you, shoot some shots in the store, take the card home and look for yourself. Maybe you can get one of the camera guys to dance for you

I have found that any EVF's I've used on a m43 camera to be very usable in bright light, my EM5 no exception so the EM1 should be better.

I also agree with a previous post that Panasonic’s focusing is better in lower light than my EM5. This is just my feeling when I traded my Panasonic G3 for my EM5, which I didn't do a direct comparison.

Cheers,

The OP wants a small rig and hasn't said anything about video or weddings, so I'm not sure how your suggestion is in anyway relevant to his request.

The D7000 is an excellent camera with a better, more modern sensor than the 70D, which is still using a recycled design that's growing very long in the tooth.

Your advice is out of place and incorrect at the same time.

To cut everyone else down.

Such gall!

I don't have a lot to add. I think your analysis is pretty much correct. You just need to make a decision one way or another. I haven't used Fuji equipment. Some comments below.

robinchee said:

robinchee wrote:

While I missed the speed of the Nikon when shooting ballroom dance competitions, which the Fuji were too slow, I eventually gave up shooting those.

I was excited with the Olympus EM-1, so I pre-ordered it with the 12-40mm. With the Fuji, I was shooting around F4 indoors mainly due to the zoom. With the EM-1 I was hoping to shoot at F2.8, offset the superior high ISO noise control of the Fuji.

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It's about 2/3s of a stop different, so f2.8 would give you a little more narrow depth of field vs F4 on the fuji.

robinchee said:

Now the Fuji XE-2 is out, with supposedly faster focus, I'm in two minds about the EM-1. Some reasons.

2. I'm used to the superb high ISO of the Fuji. Not sure if the Fuji is just one stop better, if so, its equally due to the F2.8 I probably would shoot with Olympus vs F4 on Fuji. But if its two stops better, the Fuji would still hold an advantage. I would typically require around ISO 3200-6400 for shooting indoor ballroom dance competitions.

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High ISO tolerance is a pretty personal thing, but you can make pretty decent 8x10s at ISO 6400 and a bit bigger at ISO 3200. Web images will probably look good. You can get away with about a stop wider aperture with similar DoF.

robinchee said:

3. Not sure if the Fuji XE-2 would be fast enough for ballroom dance competitions.

4. Not sure how well the Face detection of the Fuji XE-2 is .. heard the eye detection of the Olympus is really good.

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Can't comment on Fuji AF. The eye detection on the E-M5 is pretty good, probably better on the E-M1. It isn't fast enough to work in a ballroom dance competition, but face detection make work. Considering your distance and shooting at f2.8, it probably won't be an issue though. I assume you are thinking of portraits.

robinchee said:

5. The Olympus is kind of heavy for a 4/3 by the time u include the small flash. The Fuji combination even with lens is probably a bit lighter.

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Might be, but it's still fairly light. Are you looking at the FL-300R or FL-600R? The 300R is probably a little weak for dance and might take a while to charge up if you are using lower ISOs. The FL-600R is quite small (for what it is) and makes a nice combo with m43s bodies. The FL-50R is fairly large and you'll probably find yourself wanting a grip of some type on the camera.

robinchee said:

6. The Olympus IBIS will allow me to use the 17mmF1.8 with stabilisation, whereas the Fuji with 18mmF2 would not have stabilisation. I would think the Olympus IBIS would still be better than the Fuji OIS of the zooms.

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The IBIS is really impressive. If you want to capture motion during the dance competitions it would probably be useful. I'm sure you'd have other situations you can use it.

robinchee said:

8. Not sure how well the EM-1 EVF would door outdoors in bright sunlight. The Fuji XE1 is hopeless, and the XE-2 don't seem to have anything improving on the respect. The faster frame rate is more for indoors.

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I'll prefix this by saying on the E-M5 I have no issues with the EVF in sunlight. It's bright and easy to see. The E-M1 has some nice improvements to the EVF beyond resolution. It alters the brightness in daylight or dim light to more closely mimic an OVF. People seem to like it a lot.

robinchee said:

Any thoughts on this?

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The Photo Ninja said:

The Photo Ninja wrote:

Such gall!

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The OP stated that he wants a lightweight camera since he is older and has a bad back.

The OP was thorough in describing his requirements for a camera, and he never once mentioned video or weddings.

You come into the thread and recommend a camera that the OP has not asked about and that does not fit his weight and bulk requirements, and your reasons (video and weddings) for recommending that camera (the 70D) in no way match any of the OP's other requirements.

Then you follow up by saying that the Nikon D7000, an excellent camera by all accounts, is 'nothing special' in comparison to the 70D, which is using recycled sensor technology that's less modern than what's in the D7000.

When Mark Twain wrote, "it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt", he was referring to you.

I never said anything about Nikon.

Owning the EM5 and having owned the XE1+a few lenses (and selling it) I think its safe to say that even if the XE2 has improved responsiveness over the XE1 its still not going to be as responsive as the EM1, which is a very mature camera at this point. By responsiveness I mean EVF lag, AF performance and general controls/usability.

Things we know as facts:

EM1 has IBIS which means IS in all lenses, good for low light shooting with mostly static subjects. If you're shooting fast motion, the IS is less of a factor a factor, you'll need a fast shutter speed/high ISO

M34rds has multiple F2.8 constant zooms (12-35, 12-40m, 35-100, and 40-150 soon). This should in practice negate the sensor size/high ISO advantage of the Fuji, unless the XE2 has a new sensor which is significantly better than the XE1

EM1 build is better, weather sealed to a very high degree.

EM1 has a larger EVF, reported to have very low lag, same unit as the Sony A7

M43rds system has a larger selection of lenses

X-E2 will give you narrower DOF at equivalent focal length and same aperture, to the tune of about 2/3rds a stop.

X system has more F1.4 AF lenses (23mm and 35mm, vs the 25/1.4 Panasonic). Both systems will have a F1.2 portrait lens (Fuji 56/1.4, Pana 42/1.2), eventually. If you want a fast 35mm equiv for narrow DOF shooting the Fuji is a better choice at 35/2.1 vs 34/3.6 or 40/3.4 FF equiv for FL and DOF.

Things that are likely:

EM1 will have faster and more reliable AF, and significantly faster/better AF tracking.

X-E2 will have a better sensor to some degree

Poor auto ISO implementation was also pretty much a deal break for me with the XE1, I assume that will be improved with the XE2 which is essential for a camera w/o IS.

The Photo Ninja said:

The Photo Ninja wrote:

I never said anything about Nikon.

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The OP wrote (in the first sentence in his first post): I've got the [snip] Nikon D7000 with 16-85mm.

The Photo Ninja wrote (in response): The d7000 is nothing special

I assumed you were referring to the same Nikon D7000 that the OP referred to in his first post. Is there another D7000 that I'm not familiar with, or have you, yet again, opened your mouth and proved yourself to be a Twainian fool?

I think you are being over sensitivie hear. I was not ad hominem. I wondered where that advice could come from if someone clearly states DSLRS like the D7000 are not gor him anymore etc.

robinchee said:

robinchee wrote:

I've got the Fuji X100, X100s, XE1 with 18mm and 18-55mm F2.8-4. Sony RX100Mk2. Nikon D7000 with 16-85mm.

Any thoughts on this?

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Too much worrying about cameras, not enough worrying about lenses. You're becoming an expert in kit zooms!

EricWN said:

EricWN wrote:

My first thought is that you have too many cameras already...
To each his own but I think this much stuff would distract me from just taking pictures.

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I don't think I myself could properly come to grips with all the features and settings and idiosyncrasies of that many cameras to where I'd be much good at using or getting the best from them.

Midwest said:

Midwest wrote:

Midwest said:

EricWN wrote:

My first thought is that you have too many cameras already...
To each his own but I think this much stuff would distract me from just taking pictures.

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I don't think I myself could properly come to grips with all the features and settings and idiosyncrasies of that many cameras to where I'd be much good at using or getting the best from them.

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Well .. some are on the way out like the Nikon D7000 which is too heavy for me.

So its basically a few Fuji and one Sony. The Fujis have similar behaviour, so once you know one well, the rest are easy.

Member said:

MarkJH wrote:

Member said:

robinchee wrote:

I've got the Fuji X100, X100s, XE1 with 18mm and 18-55mm F2.8-4. Sony RX100Mk2. Nikon D7000 with 16-85mm.

Any thoughts on this?

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Too much worrying about cameras, not enough worrying about lenses. You're becoming an expert in kit zooms!

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I started in photography more than 30 years ago, starting with cameras like Olympus OM3, OM4 with only prime lens. I moved on to Nikon F100, F5 with prime and pro zoom lens with large hammer head flashes. When the digital age came, I started with Fuji S2Pro and then Nikon D70. I did shoot professionally for a while, covering weddings and commercial still life, just as means to fund my hobby and to get experience to learn how the pros shot.

But now many years older .. and with a bad back, my aims are very different. I don't profuse to be a great photographer nor do I intend to be one. I'm am now mainly a holiday and event (which I attend, not to go there to shoot on purpose or be paid to do so) photographer. My aim is to have great shots of my friends and family with the minimum of equipment and least fuss and without looking like the official photographer. Which means I don't want to carry more than one lens, so I end up with zooms, but a high quality but still reasonably light zoom.

And of course given enough experience with a particular camera even with limitations you could make it work. I managed to shoot with manual cameras (OM3, OM4), prime non AF lens to shot action ballroom .. But it was definitely more difficult. So if the technology is here that can make our life easier, I would take it. Life is too short to be wasting time trying to get unsuitable cameras to do their job, even though it could be done.

Anyway, I don't shoot that often, so I don't practice enough to get a slow focusing camera to work for me well enough with less stress.

I own both Canon 7D and Sony Nex-5n, Both cameras are great for outside shooting, but when push comes to show with low light ISO, I REALLY despise my Canon. At 3200 Lightroom deals with the noise, but picture do lose on sharpness.

Also, 7D is a brick to carry around, especially when paired with 2-3 lenses.

Sony is a little better in iso performance, but not by much. Lack of viewfinder is a ***** too. One good thing about it is its weight. Can carry it around with no much fuss.

So know, I am in exact dilemma: I want something small and better low light iso performance and light. If the weight was not a concern, I'd be carrying 5DMkIII or 6D by now, but this is not what I am willing to do.

Sony A7 seems to be the answer, but with only 2 lenses available today, it is a joke. It's like selling a car with no tires, or a toy with no batteries. I do not trust Sony as a company to remedy the situation, so I will wait at least one year to see what they do.

In a meantime, I am thinking... what to do? Fujifilm x-e2 or Olympus OMD-e1..

Well I'm back. Thanks for all the input. I finally decided that the XE2 was a cheaper way to go and less risk.

Unfortunately, so far its not been that great.

- ISO 6400 with JPEG sucks with people. Faces are smeared waxy very obviously even at normal viewing sizes. And since I don't have the time and energy to handle RAW, I'm sticking to ISO 3200. So any other camera I consider need only be as good at ISO3200, noting that I only need relative noise free ISO3200 images at around 6mp, enough for 8x10 prints and full screen viewing on a iPad retina display.

- Focus is faster but even with Face detection missed a few shots out of focus again. Those were snap shots of friends in a dinner and dance with fairly low light. I had no such problem with my Sony RX100MkII under same circumstances. I absolutely need a reliable autofocus camera, especially if someone handles it. I feel frustrated that I am leaving it to luck for someone to take a good shot of me and my wife that just needs to be in focus.

- While its more responsive, its not like the EM1. The short period of handing an EM1 at the shop just made me want to shot due to its responsiveness.

I'm inclined to sell the XE2 and get the Olympus EM1. Any updated thoughts?

robinchee said:

Well I'm back. Thanks for all the input. I finally decided that the XE2 was a cheaper way to go and less risk.

Unfortunately, so far its not been that great.

- ISO 6400 with JPEG sucks with people. Faces are smeared waxy very obviously even at normal viewing sizes. And since I don't have the time and energy to handle RAW, I'm sticking to ISO 3200. So any other camera I consider need only be as good at ISO3200, noting that I only need relative noise free ISO3200 images at around 6mp, enough for 8x10 prints and full screen viewing on a iPad retina display.

- Focus is faster but even with Face detection missed a few shots out of focus again. Those were snap shots of friends in a dinner and dance with fairly low light. I had no such problem with my Sony RX100MkII under same circumstances. I absolutely need a reliable autofocus camera, especially if someone handles it. I feel frustrated that I am leaving it to luck for someone to take a good shot of me and my wife that just needs to be in focus.

- While its more responsive, its not like the EM1. The short period of handing an EM1 at the shop just made me want to shot due to its responsiveness.

I'm inclined to sell the XE2 and get the Olympus EM1. Any updated thoughts?

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Vaguely related.

I use an E-M5 and E-M1 for all my photography. Here's a few examples showing what these can do in situations vaguely similar to your ballroom dancing.

I'd have no issue using either of my O-MD's for ballroom dance. I probably wouldn't use face detect though, as it's a uncontrolled variable and may get distracted by people in background, costumes, etc. I'd just set a small focus point.

Dusk Horse Polo with the E-M1 and 75mm

75mm is great – Roller Derby

Adelaide Roller Derby. Grand Final

For this sort of stuff the 75mm is awesome. However, if you've got the light, then the f2.8 zooms would be great offering a lot more framing flexibility.

Martin.au said:

Martin.au said:

nd get the Olympus EM1. Any updated thoughts?

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Vaguely related.

I use an E-M5 and E-M1 for all my photography. Here's a few examples showing what these can do in situations vaguely similar to your ballroom dancing.

I'd have no issue using either of my O-MD's for ballroom dance. I probably wouldn't use face detect though, as it's a uncontrolled variable and may get distracted by people in background, costumes, etc. I'd just set a small focus point.

Dusk Horse Polo with the E-M1 and 75mm

75mm is great – Roller Derby

Adelaide Roller Derby. Grand Final

For this sort of stuff the 75mm is awesome. However, if you've got the light, then the f2.8 zooms would be great offering a lot more framing flexibility.

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I'm leaning towards the 12-40mm F2.8 and 35-100mmF2.8 zooms. I figured that with Fuji 18-55, I'm losing a stop at the long end, while with the Fuji 55-200 I'm losing even more. So while the Fuji has a bit better ISO performance, its partially negated by the zoom apertures and also notice that both for the EM1 and EM5 with dpreview comparisons, the EM images appear crisper and sharper than the Fuji XE2, even though the Fuji has better noise control. Hopefully the EM1 can give me a stop better lower shutter speed (for non action) shots than Fuji (which I normally shot around 1/30 and no lower). Then Fuji's ISO performance won't be an advantage anymore.

Great shots.