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Don't be afraid of Shuttershock : here's why
- Thread starter Pixnat2
- Start date
Anders W
Forum Pro
Very good summary! I agree in every respect.
I'm not surprised
Actually, I wondered when you would chime in. It's done And yes, I'm interested about what you think.
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Cheers,
Frederic
http://azurphoto.com/blog/
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SHood
Veteran Member
I shoot mostly wildlife with m43 and shutter shock has a big impact on how much I can crop. You definitely need to watch your shutterspeed and/or take bursts so that you have at least one sharp shot to crop.
exdeejjjaaaa
Veteran Member
indeed, what is not normal and what you apparently fail to comprehend that in some cases with IS (IBIS, OIS) you have blur @ exposure speeds that 'd be otherwise perfectly safe (w/ a great margin of safety) on a camera w/ any moving/suspended parts... like you know shooting P20/1.7 @ 1/200...
Interesting. I've never encountered this issue nor read about it. Maybe I spend too much time taking pictures and not enough time reading the forum
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Cheers,
Frederic
Anders W
Forum Pro
No. That's not correct. To the extent tested, the blur results from the shock due to shutter action rather than by vibrations. Two different things physically speaking.
Anders W
Forum Pro
Well, I think just what Alien from Mars already said. So he saved me most of the trouble.I'm not surprised
And yes, I'm interested about what you think.
But I just posted a reply to you on the question of vibration, which, as far as we can now tell, is not the key mechanism (at least not as a rule).
exdeejjjaaaa
Veteran Member
true... and hell lot of people were perfectly fine w/ a notion that Earth if flat some time ago... it "was" indeed for their humble purposes...Interesting. I've never encountered this issue nor read about it. Maybe I spend too much time taking pictures and not enough time reading the forum
Wow, that's the most immensely pretentious answer I've read, Mister Eratosthenestrue... and hell lot of people were perfectly fine w/ a notion that Earth if flat some time ago... it "was" indeed for their humble purposes...Interesting. I've never encountered this issue nor read about it. Maybe I spend too much time taking pictures and not enough time reading the forum
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Cheers,
Frederic
Anders W
Forum Pro
It isn't particularly interesting since Mr. ex cannot offer any evidence in support of his contentions. I have asked him for that on some ten occasions already and always come up empty-handed. It's just a speculation of his that he is mistaking for a fact.Interesting. I've never encountered this issue nor read about it. Maybe I spend too much time taking pictures and not enough time reading the forum
Personally, I am open to the possibility that there is sometimes (e.g., with certain Power OIS lenses) a negative interaction between the stabilization system and the shock caused by the shutter (i.e., that the stabilization system makes the effect worse than it would otherwise be). But shutter-shock is well-known to occur with cameras having fixed sensors and with lenses having no OIS.
Thanks to correct me. I respect your findings as you're very knowledgeable on this matter. I've read your shock theory, and it makes a lot of sense to me. Other knowledgeable sources are speaking about vibrations, but you could be more to the point than them.
Alien from Mars
Leading Member
BS. There's a determined sequence of events. If you are too lazy to look into it don't think others are as lame. There's no need for "multiple theories" here. Just a sequence of events and the consequences of those. High school physics classes (if not ignored or forgotten) are enough to clearly understand what and when happens. But that only works if you really want to understand it and not just pretend to be a smart*** and pepper your posts with "vibrations" of unknown origin.
How much was your bet? You've lost.
It's impossible to use it on GX1 since it's not there, but on E-M5 I have it on or off depending on situation.
BS. anti-shock does not exist on some cameras at all and no holding technique can mitigate SS on poorly designed shutter. The only "holding technique" that will help is a tripod with infinite mass
It's not always possible to use it.Finally you acknowledged you have nothing to say. Thanks.
Brian Caslis
Senior Member
This is really nice. It duplicates the drives with and without anti-shock. Very nice, much easier than diving into menus.
Alien from Mars
Leading Member
Re-read my post and realized it's not very polite if not to say quite rude.
I'd like to apologize for that, Mr. Pixnat.
That doesn't change my point of view though.
I'd like to apologize for that, Mr. Pixnat.
That doesn't change my point of view though.
Anders W
Forum Pro
You are welcome. I have tested it with MFT and Falk Lumo has tested it with Pentax DSLRs. The test is very simple. You put the camera on what Falk Lumo calls a "class A tripod", i.e., a stone floor or some other perfectly rigid and very heavy surface. This prevents the camera from moving (in the sense of being displaced) but not from vibrating. If vibration were the mechanism, you would see blur in this situation too. But you don't. Consequently, vibration is not the mechanism. Brute shock, causing camera displacement, is.
When I tested this, I did so with the E-M5 and the Pany 100-300 at 300 mm (where I get clear signs of shutter-shock when shooting from a tripod). I tried with both stabilization systems off, with IBIS on, and with OIS on. No difference. Everything fine. So vibration didn't fool the stabilization systems into misbehaving either.
Anders W
Forum Pro
Although we agree about nearly everything here, I do think proper "holding technique" helps. No, it won't prevent the camera from moving. But if you hold right, the movement will be translational rather than rotational, which will make the consequences in terms of blur much less prominent. See here for a development of these ideas.BS. There's a determined sequence of events. If you are too lazy to look into it don't think others are as lame. There's no need for "multiple theories" here. Just a sequence of events and the consequences of those. High school physics classes (if not ignored or forgotten) are enough to clearly understand what and when happens. But that only works if you really want to understand it and not just pretend to be a smart*** and pepper your posts with "vibrations" of unknown origin.
How much was your bet? You've lost.
It's impossible to use it on GX1 since it's not there, but on E-M5 I have it on or off depending on situation.
BS. anti-shock does not exist on some cameras at all and no holding technique can mitigate SS on poorly designed shutter. The only "holding technique" that will help is a tripod with infinite mass
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3496076
In that post, I am discussing a pistol grip. But even if you don't use that, holding the camera so as to minimize the risk that the shutter forms part of a moment arm helps. With a short and light lens, this means that you should support the camera via the body only, not under the lens, and use little or no head support. With a longer lens, you should support the lens at a point close to the body.
Alien from Mars
Leading Member
Yeah, and I told Mr. ex... about such an example numerous times, but he prefers to ignore it since it's ruining his nice theory.
Well, if facts do not fit with the theory let's ignore facts?There was another nice theory about the origin of some sensors I remember...
exdeejjjaaaa
Veteran Member
I did, but you as usual were lazy to look for them in this very forum, yawn... and not only mine.It isn't particularly interesting since Mr. ex cannot offer any evidence in support of his contentions.Interesting. I've never encountered this issue nor read about it. Maybe I spend too much time taking pictures and not enough time reading the forum
going in circles
who cares about what you are open to ? just one example (feel free to use google to find my posting in this forums, do some legwork) is enough... P20/1.7 @ 1/200
and you also fail (or rather pretend) to comprehend that the issue is not a shutter shock itself, but that cameras with IBIS (and lenses with OIS) are more prone to blut @ shutter speeds that otherwise are safe with cameras w/o suspended details
... but carry on.
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Alien from Mars
Leading Member
Don't worry, Anders. I usually read your posts (when you do not abuse "answer with quote" option too much)
The pistol grip is a smart solution but you do understand it's altering shooting experience a lot. Not to mention increased camera bulk.I think it would be quite useful if you'd give a link again to that article about SS study (from Falkumo, right?) with very detailed explanation and measurements on every step of shutter action. That's a great educational piece of work.
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