I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator

Started May 30, 2013 | Discussions
Anders W
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I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
May 30, 2013

See here for further info and here for the offer on German Amazon that I took advantage of.

I have only done rather limited testing so far, but my initial results with the 75/1.8 on the E-M5 are very promising. Sharper shots at 1/125 that I can ever remember getting at that speed before. I just hope I am not shouting "hey" too early.

Sometimes you come across solutions by chance, but in this case it was actually a matter of deductive logic.

Question: Why does the shutter shock cause blur?

Answer: Because the camera moves (rather than vibrates; it's a shock we are talking about) a little bit, because it is virtually impossible to eliminate that movement (according to the laws of physics, momentum must be preserved and it is likely to be absorbed by your hands rather than by something bigger and heavier, like your whole body), and because the movement is too fast for (most) stabilization systems to correct for it.

Question: How does the camera move?

Answer: Principally, the movement can be of two different kinds: Translational (in this case vertical shift) or rotational (change of vertical angle, i.e. change of pitch).

Question: How do these two types of movement relate to blur?

Answer: Translational movement will hardly cause any blur at normal shooting distances unless it is large (and it isn't in this case). It becomes of significance only when shooting at very close distances. Rotational movement, by contrast, will cause significant blur at any distance even if the movement is rather limited.

Question: How do you hold the camera so a to maximize the likelihood that the inescapable movement takes the form of translational rather than rotational movement.

Answer: By holding it so as to prevent the shutter from forming part of a moment arm similar to the moment arm that makes the tip of the barrel of a pistol (or rifle) move upwards when it recoils. In the case of the pistol, the barrel is above the grip and the recoil effect towards the rear. This yields a moment arm. In the case of the pistol grip on a camera, by contrast, the grip is directly underneath the shutter and the movement of the shutter up/down so that no moment arm is created.

Now I am just hoping that my logic is in order.

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walkaround
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

Yeah, that'll be unobtrusive.

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Anders W
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to walkaround, May 30, 2013

walkaround wrote:

Yeah, that'll be unobtrusive.

Right. No problem in that regard except possibly with you.

Got any good idea about alternative and less obtrusive solutions you'd like to share?

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s_grins
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

I'm smarter, I use monopod.

Edited: when camera moves, suspended sensor vibrates.

 

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Anders W
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to s_grins, May 30, 2013

s_grins wrote:

I'm smarter, I use monopod.

Smarter? You mean bigger is better or what?

Edited: when camera moves, suspended sensor vibrates.

 

Fortunately it doesn't as I've demonstrated already long ago.

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Ulric
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

Oh My. I have a wooden one similar to that, made 35 years ago. Don't remember using it much.

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papillon_65
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I have an easier answer....
In reply to walkaround, May 30, 2013

why not just use a camera that doesn't have this problem? I mean the whole point of m4/3's was smaller form factor and now you're attaching a pistol grip to it?

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Art_P
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Simpler solution?
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

For those who already have a remote shutter release, why not hold the camera w right hand, but trip the shutter w left hand on remote- if it's the act of pushing the shutter button that is causing the movement.

Or bolt a block of lead to the bottom of the camera to add mass

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s_grins
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

Anders W wrote:

s_grins wrote:

I'm smarter, I use monopod.

Smarter? You mean bigger is better or what?

"Or what?" means that you do not have to take all your shots with extended monopod. Extend it only when it is necessary. In all other situations I use camera with collapsed monopod that is not as big as you imagine

Edited: when camera moves, suspended sensor vibrates.

 

Fortunately it doesn't as I've demonstrated already long ago.

You can't persuade me with your demonstrations. I've seen a lot   

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Anders W
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Re: I have an easier answer....
In reply to papillon_65, May 30, 2013

papillon_65 wrote:

why not just use a camera that doesn't have this problem?

Which camera with a mechanical shutter doesn't? DSLRs have it too (and shock due to mirror-flap on top of that).

http://falklumo.blogspot.se/2010/07/lumolabs-shutter-induced-blur-with-slr.html

http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/k7shutter/index.html

http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/k5shutter/index.html

I mean the whole point of m4/3's was smaller form factor and now you're attaching a pistol grip to it?

It remains smaller and lighter even if you use the grip than other cameras on which you would have to mount the same grip in order to eliminate the blur.

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hmzppz
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

How about soft release button? Has anyone tried?

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Anders W
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Re: Simpler solution?
In reply to Art_P, May 30, 2013

Art_P wrote:

For those who already have a remote shutter release, why not hold the camera w right hand, but trip the shutter w left hand on remote- if it's the act of pushing the shutter button that is causing the movement.

No it isn't. It's the movement of the shutter blades that causes the shutter shock, not that due to pressing the shutter button (which the stabilization system can deal with without any major problem).

Or bolt a block of lead to the bottom of the camera to add mass

If you had read my entire post, you'd know that it isn't the weight that is the key here (although it might provide a bit of extra help). It's the way you can hold the camera with the grip. Of course, you can try to hold it by means of a sufficiently large block of lead too, but it would certainly be less convenient and you might find it somewhat difficult to release the shutter by pushing that block with your index finger or thumb.

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Anders W
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to hmzppz, May 30, 2013

hmzppz wrote:

How about soft release button? Has anyone tried?

What's a "soft release button"?

And if you read my entire post, you'll see that it isn't about the way you push the button. It's about the way you hold the camera.

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Anders W
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to s_grins, May 30, 2013

s_grins wrote:

Anders W wrote:

s_grins wrote:

I'm smarter, I use monopod.

Smarter? You mean bigger is better or what?

"Or what?" means that you do not have to take all your shots with extended monopod. Extend it only when it is necessary. In all other situations I use camera with collapsed monopod that is not as big as you imagine

So how big and heavy is the monopod when folded? And how flexible is it with regard to choice of shooting position (and quick changes between positions). What about shooting above your head or leaning out a window, for example?

Edited: when camera moves, suspended sensor vibrates.

 

Fortunately it doesn't as I've demonstrated already long ago.

You can't persuade me with your demonstrations. I've seen a lot   

As I've already told you, you are of course free to dream on as you wish.

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Anders W
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Ulric, May 30, 2013

Ulric wrote:

Oh My. I have a wooden one similar to that, made 35 years ago. Don't remember using it much.

I had one made of rubber with a mechanical cable release that I had fitted to a shoulder support for use with my Vivitar 400/5.6 on Konica Autoreflex bodies. But mechanical cable releases are out of fashion, regrettably, so it isn't of much use any more.

One nice thing about the JJC grip I bought (its shutter shock resistance aside) is that it works with pretty much any camera body. If you get a body from another manufacturer, you just have to replace the cable, not the entire grip. Same solution as my Aputure Co-worker remote release.

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fotophool
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Or fix it in software...
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013
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s_grins
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

Anders W wrote:

s_grins wrote:

Anders W wrote:

s_grins wrote:

I'm smarter, I use monopod.

Smarter? You mean bigger is better or what?

"Or what?" means that you do not have to take all your shots with extended monopod. Extend it only when it is necessary. In all other situations I use camera with collapsed monopod that is not as big as you imagine

So how big and heavy is the monopod when folded? And how flexible is it with regard to choice of shooting position (and quick changes between positions). What about shooting above your head or leaning out a window, for example?

Thank you for asking:

Monopod is indispensible when shooting above the head because even folded monopod is in you hand gives you more reach (I did not try extended monopod yet). Also you can use it for low level shots - just stretch your hand down. You can do shots out from window without leaning or hanging out. You can do many tricks. Or, yes, you also need remote wireless trigger that I have and camera with articulated LCD that I have.

Edited: when camera moves, suspended sensor vibrates.

 

Fortunately it doesn't as I've demonstrated already long ago.

You can't persuade me with your demonstrations. I've seen a lot   

As I've already told you, you are of course free to dream on as you wish.

Likewise

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Anders W
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to s_grins, May 30, 2013

s_grins wrote:

Anders W wrote:

s_grins wrote:

Anders W wrote:

s_grins wrote:

I'm smarter, I use monopod.

Smarter? You mean bigger is better or what?

"Or what?" means that you do not have to take all your shots with extended monopod. Extend it only when it is necessary. In all other situations I use camera with collapsed monopod that is not as big as you imagine

So how big and heavy is the monopod when folded? And how flexible is it with regard to choice of shooting position (and quick changes between positions). What about shooting above your head or leaning out a window, for example?

Thank you for asking:

Monopod is indispensible when shooting above the head because even folded monopod is in you hand gives you more reach (I did not try extended monopod yet). Also you can use it for low level shots - just stretch your hand down. You can do shots out from window without leaning or hanging out. You can do many tricks. Or, yes, you also need remote wireless trigger that I have and camera with articulated LCD that I have.

You can't shoot sideways from a window without hanging out from it. How how do you press the shutter button via your monopod in the situations we are talking about? And what about the length and weight that I asked about?

Edited: when camera moves, suspended sensor vibrates.

 

Fortunately it doesn't as I've demonstrated already long ago.

You can't persuade me with your demonstrations. I've seen a lot   

As I've already told you, you are of course free to dream on as you wish.

Likewise

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Anders W
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Re: Or fix it in software...
In reply to fotophool, May 30, 2013

fotophool wrote:

Of course you'll have to pay Adobe:

http://www.tricedesigns.com/2013/05/24/shake-reduction-in-adobe-photoshop-cc/

Yes there's a price to be paid, and not only to Adobe. While their solution is certainly welcome, it has its downsides. And I'd rather not have the blur in the first place.

Sooner or later we'll have an electronic first curtain or a global electronic shutter, but until then, I think I'll be happy to have my grip.

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Bob Tullis
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Re: I think I might have found the ultimate shutter-shock terminator
In reply to Anders W, May 30, 2013

There's a veteran photographer somewhere that uses a vertical grip like that with his right hand, and wraps the inside of his left elbow over the right forearm or wrist while activating the shutter with his left hand (I hope that's a picture that can be pictured).  It keeps elbows in, very tight to the body, while keeping the camera tight to the eye as well.

I believe this was his own stabilization technique with film. . . very reminiscent, anyway, of your s.shock findings.   I've always thought that approach pretty neat.

I don't encounter shutter shock unless I get technique sloppy, but I will be taking a mini tripod with me later this week to practice your and that veteran's technique.  It won't be the same, activating the shutter directly instead of through the grip itself, granted.

You ARE quite the ressource here, Anders.   Bless you, and thanks in general.

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