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Im shocked, my tiny Sony NEX 5R delivers better pics than my 7D?
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R2D2
Forum Pro
Thanks Midwest. The bird was in the sunshine, but I just couldn't predict that a vertical branch would (at that precise moment) shade her face on the left side there. So I ended up underexposing the image by at least 1 1/2 stops, and had to bring the levels up in Post. I may have another go in Photoshop sometime.
Thanks again,
R2
R2D2
Forum Pro
Hi Danny. Many thanks.
We've been circling around the forums for quite some time now, and I wouldn't expect anything less coming from any camera you used. Beautiful photos. Happy shooting friend.
R2
ps.
Yin and Yang!
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Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
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R2D2
Forum Pro
Yep, I too shot for decades focusing only manually. It's an art all right. I just don't trust myself as much as I do the DSLRs now though. They're pretty darn good!
There are a couple of other very prominent BIF shooters around the fora who focus manually too. Kudos to them too.
I took this one with a 50D and the 400. Got lucky as several in the series were in focus, culminating with this one...
Easier to focus manually when they're further away though.
R2
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R2D2
Forum Pro
Many thanks FF.
That little Rebel indeed acquires focus very quickly and decisively. Increased my keeper rate over my 50D by at least 50%. Canon's great AF extends all the way down to the most entry level bodies.
R2
R2D2
Forum Pro
Thank you sir. But credit really goes to the bird here. Right place, right time.Danielvr wrote:
It's a very nice shot
I'm not really familiar with that camera (or lens). So I can't (and shouldn't) pass judgment yet.
I did have a nice Oly film SLR back in the day. About the only thing electronic in it was the meter though, LOL. Took fine pictures.
Hmm. Not sure where you're getting that. Just from my (web-sized) image? Or from the lens' paper specs?
I can tell you that the full-sized image is sharp at the pixel level. Makes an outstanding (Super-B) print too.
Again, from the spec? Because there are no "corners" in my image here. It's obvious that any blur in the image is due to either a: wingtip blur, or b: out-of-DOF blur.
You got me there. The 400 does exhibit some PF. If it's bothersome to you, I can remove it.
Sorry, I can't blame the equipment for that one. The eagle was in the direct sun and just by chance did the "face" slip into shadow. I underexposed it by at least 1 1/2 stops. I may have another go at post-processing though. Maybe extract multiple TIFFs from the RAW original, and stack.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Even though my monitor is calibrated, images can look different on other peoples' machines. I actually intended the underside to show just the barest hint of detail, as I like a lot of contrast in my (bald) eagle shots. Makes the head stand out more. You'd probably hate this one...
Maybe like the tonality of this one better?
Or here...
Well, of course Canon has a whole stable of Great Whites too. Whole volumes have been written regarding their capabilities. I paid $900 for this lens new, and the body I used was the "entriest" level Canon. It just delivers. Honestly. Go ahead and check my galleries (in my sig) for more images if you'd like.
Well not for what I like to shoot. That was my point. ;-)
Show me some very low percentage BIFs and I'm all ears.
The physics dictates that there's always degradation. Whether it matters to you or not depends entirely on what your intended output is.
Now I do believe that someday the technology will have advanced enough to make mirrorless competitive in the AF department (for BIFs like this).
Hey, I just might have to see how this new Oly shakes out!
Happy shooting,
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
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I wouldn't mind your Hummer shots and that's for real. I wish we had those here. Gorgeous birds and shots.
The NEX is not bad with MF lenses on the front of it. So maybe I just have a lot of flukes and I'm real lucky. Reminds me, I better get a lottery ticket this week.
http://birdsinaction.com/index.php/Birds
http://birdsinaction.com/index.php/Need-for-speed/Power-boats
All NEX-7 and MF
I shoot with FF Canon shooters most days and know what they can take and I also know that AF does not lock on a lot of the time as well. Much of that depends on the camera itself. Steve with his 1DX has very few problems with the 500 F/4. Just had Colin out from Aussie with a 7D and 500 F/4, he did have issues locking on sometimes, not a lot, but he still had issues and yep, he does know how to use the AF functions.
Anyway, all the best and I'll just carry on for sure.
Danny.
--
http://www.birdsinaction.com
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I might be wrong, but with a few of your comments you seemed to be thinking the NEX system is like the m4/3 mirrorless system and its actually totally different. The 7D sensor is actually slightly smaller than the NEX sensor, by a smidgeon. M4/3 is a lot smaller. So if you take as an example the shot you posted of the flower, I can mount the Canon 400mm F/5.6 on a NEX very easily and you will have exactly the same amount of DOF.
The NEX system adapts any lens ever made virtually. I choose to use the Canon FD mount for my 300 F/2.8L, 500 F/4.5L and the 800 F/5.6L for MF. What the NEX has is focus peaking and that shows what ever is in focus with a yellow, red or white tinge in the EVF. That can also be adjusted with different contrast settings.
Where a lot of the DSLR shooters get mixed up with MF lenses is that they don't understand about focus peaking. Its similar the the zebra stripes in magic lantern I think it is for Canon.
So when I take a shot of a BIF with the NEX, I manually focus and when the head or the wings shimmer in yellow, I fire off a shot. Its not perfect, but we both know that neither is PDAF.
If you take what I use, the NEX-7, it has a front curtain shutter which is basically instant, has 10 frames per seconds, same sensor size as the 7D with in reason and its 24 megapixel.
What the 7D does have that I don't have is 1/8000. For me I really want that. In fact I'm starting to need it.
If I wanted fast AF I would be going Canon, no doubt about it, but I prefer MF. For an old fart like me, it simply feels right and I have no issue with it, so why change.
What the NEX doesn't have is fast AF and a good range of lenses. It can however take all the Sony SLT lenses and Minolta. 300 F/2.8, 500 F/4 and even the 600 F/4. Add that PDAF adaptor and bang, fast PADF and an entire range of fast long lenses. Doesn't suit everyone though.
All the best, long and boring but a bit more insight into NEX.
Danny.
BTW, I do shoot with Canon users all the time using the 400 F/4 and the F/5.6, 400 F/2.8, 500 F/4 and the 600 F/4/ I know exactly what they can take ;-) Impressive stuff.
Danny.
Don't start me on birds going sideways mate, because I won't stopR2D2 wrote:
Yep, I too shot for decades focusing only manually. It's an art all right. I just don't trust myself as much as I do the DSLRs now though. They're pretty darn good!
There are a couple of other very prominent BIF shooters around the fora who focus manually too. Kudos to them too.
I took this one with a 50D and the 400. Got lucky as several in the series were in focus, culminating with this one...
Easier to focus manually when they're further away though.
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
LOLYes Eagles are a dream here along with Hummers. Its something I really wish we had. Alaska is in the wish list for sure. Homer I think it is I want to head to.
Wonderful shots and just love the last one mate, fantastic !!
All the best and maybe one day ;-)
Danny.
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Jerry-astro
Forum Pro
Yes, we're blessed here in the Pac NW with great wildlife. Hummers are my fave, but alas, last year I moved to a spot where they are a lot harder to find (no feeders allowed). So, not as many easy opportunities to capture these elusive little beauties.nzmacro wrote:
I wouldn't mind your Hummer shots and that's for real. I wish we had those here. Gorgeous birds and shots.
The NEX is not bad with MF lenses on the front of it. So maybe I just have a lot of flukes and I'm real lucky. Reminds me, I better get a lottery ticket this week.
http://birdsinaction.com/index.php/Birds
http://birdsinaction.com/index.php/Need-for-speed/Power-boats
All NEX-7 and MF
I shoot with FF Canon shooters most days and know what they can take and I also know that AF does not lock on a lot of the time as well. Much of that depends on the camera itself. Steve with his 1DX has very few problems with the 500 F/4. Just had Colin out from Aussie with a 7D and 500 F/4, he did have issues locking on sometimes, not a lot, but he still had issues and yep, he does know how to use the AF functions.
Anyway, all the best and I'll just carry on for sure.
Far as your images go, I don't think they are a fluke at all. Getting those sorts of shots (particularly birds), and doing them consistently with MF on any camera takes a ton of talent. Well beyond my capabilities. My comments were more aimed at those of us who rely heavily on AF to get the shot, and in those cases, I think a DSLR ends up being the tool of choice -- at least for now. If you take AF out of the equation, then it requires a much higher skill set IMHO. My hats off to you and others who are able to pull that off, regardless whether you're using DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, or whatever.
Cheers and apologies if my post came off as being overly critical.
No sweat, I'v been going through your gallery mate ;-) The lottery ticket is no joke BTW, my dream I've had for a long time now, is to travel the world taking shots mainly of Humming birds and Kingfisher. I find those two with the varieties there are, are amazing in the colours and details the two species have. We only have the Sacred Kingfisher here and no Hummers. Eagles would be in my sights as well, LOL. it better be a big lottery winJerry-astro wrote:
Yes, we're blessed here in the Pac NW with great wildlife. Hummers are my fave, but alas, last year I moved to a spot where they are a lot harder to find (no feeders allowed). So, not as many easy opportunities to capture these elusive little beauties.nzmacro wrote:
I wouldn't mind your Hummer shots and that's for real. I wish we had those here. Gorgeous birds and shots.
The NEX is not bad with MF lenses on the front of it. So maybe I just have a lot of flukes and I'm real lucky. Reminds me, I better get a lottery ticket this week.
http://birdsinaction.com/index.php/Birds
http://birdsinaction.com/index.php/Need-for-speed/Power-boats
All NEX-7 and MF
I shoot with FF Canon shooters most days and know what they can take and I also know that AF does not lock on a lot of the time as well. Much of that depends on the camera itself. Steve with his 1DX has very few problems with the 500 F/4. Just had Colin out from Aussie with a 7D and 500 F/4, he did have issues locking on sometimes, not a lot, but he still had issues and yep, he does know how to use the AF functions.
Anyway, all the best and I'll just carry on for sure.
Far as your images go, I don't think they are a fluke at all. Getting those sorts of shots (particularly birds), and doing them consistently with MF on any camera takes a ton of talent. Well beyond my capabilities. My comments were more aimed at those of us who rely heavily on AF to get the shot, and in those cases, I think a DSLR ends up being the tool of choice -- at least for now. If you take AF out of the equation, then it requires a much higher skill set IMHO. My hats off to you and others who are able to pull that off, regardless whether you're using DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, or whatever.
Cheers and apologies if my post came off as being overly critical.
All the best those Hummers are gorgeous, darn good work and shots !!.
Danny.
Flying Fish
Senior Member
Thanks, Danny, that's helpful. Given that MF works for you so well, why do you want AF?
FF
FF
Flying Fish
Senior Member
Broadtail hummingbird, male
I know I could never have got this shot with MF.
FF
Jerry-astro
Forum Pro
Thanks, Danny. I similarly dream of visiting NZ some day as well. High on the bucket list.No sweat, I'v been going through your gallery mate ;-) The lottery ticket is no joke BTW, my dream I've had for a long time now, is to travel the world taking shots mainly of Humming birds and Kingfisher. I find those two with the varieties there are, are amazing in the colours and details the two species have. We only have the Sacred Kingfisher here and no Hummers. Eagles would be in my sights as well, LOL. it better be a big lottery win
All the best those Hummers are gorgeous, darn good work and shots !!.
Danny
They are so erratic in flight unless they are hovering by a feeder. I feel lucky to catch them with AF. Trying MF on a hummer would drive a person to drink. Great shot!Flying Fish wrote:
Broadtail hummingbird, male
I know I could never have got this shot with MF.
FF
zackiedawg
Forum Pro
Riknash,
Unquestionably a DSLR with PDAF dedicated sensors will track focus better than most mirrorless cameras, at least at present. I wouldn't personally bother to try to compare my NEX-5N using AF-C mode to my DSLR, because I know my DSLR would stomp all over it. But that doesn't necessarily preclude shooting BIFs with a NEX using AF - generally you use AF-S mode and rely on the relatively fast AF focus in good light and cycle the shutter button yourself, refocusing between shots. It's a different technique, not terribly difficult, but does help to have some BIF experience.
I do shoot BIF with my NEX and DSLR - the NEX requires a little more effort and slightly different focus techniques, while the DSLR simply makes it easier, with its continuous focusing, tracking focus, and larger buffer.
Here are some BIFs shot with my NEX-5N, using the standard 55-210mm NEX lens and a 1.7x teleextender, all shot using autofocus...I tried to find some BIFs that were a little more challenging than slow, big birds going across the frame - some are coming towards the camera, some are smaller and faster...hopefully it can give at least some idea that BIF shooting can be done with AF on a mirrorless, but just with a little more effort and slightly different settings:
I admit I don't use my NEX as often for BIF work - the DSLR makes it easier because it can track and fire bursts for a target of any speed, so it makes it easier to get that 'perfect' position of the wings, shadows, etc. And generally my NEX is my second birding camera, on hot summer days when I don't feel like lugging 9Lbs of camera around the swamps in 100 degrees and 90% humidity...or sometimes as a second body to shoot different focal lengths. My DSLR remains my main birding rig...but with experience shooting BIFs and a little practice getting the settings and techniques down, it's still possible to get decent AF results with BIFs on the NEX and other mirrorless cameras.
--
Justin
galleries: www.pbase.com/zackiedawg
YehudaKatz
Senior Member
R2D2 wrote:
+1
Mirrorless will develop into a mature product at some point here (AF and EVF improvements will be forthcoming I'm sure). Esp with the advent of the DPAF sensor. Then the "action" shooter will finally be satisfied.
Until then, the DSLR and the mighty EF 400mm f/5.6L USM can still deliver the goods (did I hear someone request a head-n BIF shot? :-D ). Rebel T4i and the aforementioned 400...
Happy shooting!
R2
--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries
from SAR today:
"Here are a couple of A7/A7r info I got from many sources - AF is faster than the RX-series, but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world"
truly disappointing if true, esp. as this current thread amassed plenty of evidence that the AF for fast action shooting/tracking even on the best mirrorless bodies is lagging behind entry level DSLRs pretty miserably
!!
jpr2
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street candids (non-interactive):
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music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
"Here are a couple of A7/A7r info I got from many sources - AF is faster than the RX-series, but still not as fast as the best in the mirrorless world"
truly disappointing if true, esp. as this current thread amassed plenty of evidence that the AF for fast action shooting/tracking even on the best mirrorless bodies is lagging behind entry level DSLRs pretty miserably
!!jpr2
--
~
street candids (non-interactive):
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157609618638319/
music and dance:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341265280/
B&W:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623306407882/
wildlife & macro:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157600341377106/
interactive street:
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/qmusaget/sets/72157623181919323/
Comments and critique are always welcome!
~
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photog7320
Senior Member
You don't say how these were processed, but my first thought looking at the 7D images is that they need some NR, sharpening, and levels/contrast. I wouldn't necessarily conclude that the Sony sensor or lenses are better based on these. The differences could be camera settings and/or RAW processor related.
That said, it would not surprise me to find that the newer Sony sensor or the mirrorless lenses are indeed better. Newer sensor is newer, and I would say my EOS M sensor is better then my 7D sensor. Mirrorless lenses are easier to design then SLR lenses, so it's no surprise when a low cost or "consumer" mirrorless lens compares favorably against even higher cost SLR lenses.
Also, from my observations using a 7D and an EOS M, mirrorless has a big advantage in judging exposure and white balance, and also an advantage in judging focus in terms of accuracy (obviously not speed, at least not yet). All for the simple reason that the image sensor is the metering / WB / focusing sensor.
I'm certainly using my EOS M a lot. But my 7D still sees plenty of action. There are situations where the M just can't replace the 7D.
That said, it would not surprise me to find that the newer Sony sensor or the mirrorless lenses are indeed better. Newer sensor is newer, and I would say my EOS M sensor is better then my 7D sensor. Mirrorless lenses are easier to design then SLR lenses, so it's no surprise when a low cost or "consumer" mirrorless lens compares favorably against even higher cost SLR lenses.
Also, from my observations using a 7D and an EOS M, mirrorless has a big advantage in judging exposure and white balance, and also an advantage in judging focus in terms of accuracy (obviously not speed, at least not yet). All for the simple reason that the image sensor is the metering / WB / focusing sensor.
I'm certainly using my EOS M a lot. But my 7D still sees plenty of action. There are situations where the M just can't replace the 7D.
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