Mikedigi
Forum Pro
OK.
Thanks, I'll look up your settings if i get an HS.
I only shoot JPEGs with the FZ200, mostly I am pretty happy with them, and am not expecting perfection.
Mike
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Fuji v. Panasonic superzooms
- Thread starter Mikedigi
- Start date
I only shoot JPEGs with the FZ200, mostly I am pretty happy with them, and am not expecting perfection.
Mike
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
What's wrong with your X-S1? I already checked one in the Used market and it had the drooping lens problem. What an atrocity that is!AdamT wrote:
I`ve got a near minter with the original Fuji HS leather case which will be going for that amount (if the XS1 comes back in one piece from Fuji)I'm tempted because I could probably find a new one for £200 or a little-used one for £160, and easily re-sell it if I don't bond with it . . .
Mike
Adam-T
Forum Pro
its got the usual orb sensor / ultra soft at the long end issue . the droop doesn`t bother me unless it affects the image (which it would seem it doesn't) ..
PM me if you`re interested in the HS30, it`s a really good sample which is noticably sharper at full zoom than my HS20 was, taken less than 1500 shots ..
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Thanks Adam. I'll try to find your HS30-->X-S1 thread.
I think you mean the thread "Got an X-S1 coming", is that right? You hadn't got it yet.
Mike
I think you mean the thread "Got an X-S1 coming", is that right? You hadn't got it yet.
Mike
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Adam-T
Forum Pro
Yeah , that`s the thread - I posted findings there and comparisons with the HS30 ....... it`s not all in the favour of the XS1 , these things are all a compromise
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Yes, e.g. there would be gains and losses about going from the FZ200 to the HS30 or X-S1 . . . or vice versa.
Mike
Adam-T
Forum Pro
Again, you`d lose F2.8 , but from what I saw, the FZ200 wasn`t amazingly sharp at F2.8 anyway and is rather noisy , both negating the aperture a bit - the IS is better than the HS30, the XS1 has excellent lens IS like the panny - the handling of the Fujis is in a different universe IMO, the manual zoom alone makes you want to use them and the XS1 adds extra buttons over the HS30 .. I don`t like panny colour so see them as RAW only cameras, this is where the XS1 and HS30 are excellent - Colour, also you`ve got the DR trick with EXR ..
I`ve a lot of respect for the FZ200, F2.8 is some feat but I`ve had it with lever zooming Megazooms "Bridges" which handle poorly, YMMV of course . you could do with trying an HS30 - don`t touch an XS1 as you`ll want one unless there`s a D7100 sitting next to it ..
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Coming from the FZ5 and steadily and reluctantly climbing the size/weight ladder up to the FZ200, I have tended to get rid of heavier/larger cameras not long after buying them - Oly E-410, Sony A200, Oly E-600, Nikon D90. All with manual zooms of course.
If the HS and X offerings were less brick-like, and if Fuji had not hung back on IS, purple fringing and AA batteries, I might have looked at them earlier. I got where I am here through looking at the Fuji S range and being directed towards the HS and X.
I have no doubt about the attraction of the manual zoom and we're in What-If country - what if Panny resurrected the FZ50 type of lens, non-extending, with a modest zoom range around 25-450 . . . I might go there, if it was more like an FZ8 update than an FZ50 update (weight/size again).
I only shoot JPEGs with the FZ200 and even the RAW enthusiasts admit that most of the time they cannot do better with RAW, or at least, not easily. And I don't shoot in the dark much!
I have enjoyed my reconnaissance into the Fuji Forum - I am watching out for an HS or X bargain, in an uncommitted kind of way, as I do like to try different things, I am intrigued by your comments about colour and I don't mind re-selling cameras if I don't bond with them. It's all fun.
Mike
Orion12
Senior Member
Hi Mike,
Selecting cameras has almost too many options these days. . .
Being that You're in the Hunt Mode I'll Suggest Something that relates to More than Cameras. . .
Don't be Too Certain about Exactly What You Want. . . Just Collect Data from Several Angles. . .
For Example IF You Hold Your "Weight Consideration" as a Be All & End All. . . You May End Up Sacrificing Camera Experiences & Levels of Creativity for Years to Come. . .
After being in a Similar Position several months ago I started Researching the Current Market and Ended Up with a Fuji HS50EXR. . . It's Not a PERFECT Camera but I have to Say it's the Most Fun & Versatile camera I've ever owned. I Love My Little HS50EXR - Yes I Called it LITTLE as One of the things it does for me is REPLACE and a Full Size Pentax K10D DSLR with a BAG FULL OF LENSES.
Don't get me wrong the HS50EXR does not Fully Compete with the Current Generation of DSLR's but it comes Close Enough for ME and for the $413 I Paid for it - It was a Steal. . .
Fuji Color - Y E S - Indeed - Fuji Color. . .
Here's a few things note worthy about the HS50EXR :
Manual Zoom / focal length f=4.4 - 185mm, equivalent to 24 - 1000mm on a 35mm format
full-aperture F2.8 (Wide) - F5.6 (Telephoto) FAST for the Ranges Involved
Electronic Viewfinder 0.26-inch., approx. 920K-dot, color LCD viewfinder approx. 100% coverage
LCD monitor 3.0-inch, approx. 920K-dot, TFT color LCD monitor, Vari-Angle, approx. 100% coverage
Extremely FAST Auto Focus & Enough Processing Power to Keep Up with EVF & LCD Monitor
Movie recording 1920 x 1080 pixels / 1280 x 720 pixels (60 fps) / 640 x 480 pixels (30 fps) with stereo sound
Shutter speed (Auto mode) 1/4sec. to 1/4000sec., (All other modes) 30sec. to 1/4000sec.
Continuous shooting
H : approx. 11fps (max. 5 frames)
M : approx. 6.0fps (max. 5 frames)
L : approx. 3.0fps (max. 11 frames)
SH : approx. 16fps (max. 13 frames ; Size M,S)
Everyone including Myself is all Tweaked about a Camera's Lens IQ & It IS Important BUT IS NOT Everything Important about Cameras. . .
At ANY ONE TIME - ONLY ONE Camera in a Specific Class Will Hold the #1 Position in a Particular Spec. Like Lens IQ. How MANY AREAS are WINNERS is a More Basic Question. . .
Currently the SuperZoom or Bridge-Camera world is IQ Championed by the Canon SX-50. . .
The SX-50 DOES HAVE the BEST IQ I've Seen of ALL the Bridge-Cameras. . . BUT It Sucks in Other Areas for Example it has a 202k dot EVF which is Next to Worthless for Manual Focusing Tasks.
The HS50EXR can Also Be Excellent in Low Light. . .
Bend City Lights from atop Pilot Butte Oregon
For Some Odd Reason You Ended Up in the HS50EXR Section of this Forum. . . Maybe their's a Reason for that. . .
Cheers from Orion
HS50EXR @ 1,000mm - Seemingly Enough IQ for a Decent Moon Shot. . . :-D
Selecting cameras has almost too many options these days. . .
Being that You're in the Hunt Mode I'll Suggest Something that relates to More than Cameras. . .
Don't be Too Certain about Exactly What You Want. . . Just Collect Data from Several Angles. . .
For Example IF You Hold Your "Weight Consideration" as a Be All & End All. . . You May End Up Sacrificing Camera Experiences & Levels of Creativity for Years to Come. . .
After being in a Similar Position several months ago I started Researching the Current Market and Ended Up with a Fuji HS50EXR. . . It's Not a PERFECT Camera but I have to Say it's the Most Fun & Versatile camera I've ever owned. I Love My Little HS50EXR - Yes I Called it LITTLE as One of the things it does for me is REPLACE and a Full Size Pentax K10D DSLR with a BAG FULL OF LENSES.
Don't get me wrong the HS50EXR does not Fully Compete with the Current Generation of DSLR's but it comes Close Enough for ME and for the $413 I Paid for it - It was a Steal. . .
Fuji Color - Y E S - Indeed - Fuji Color. . .
Here's a few things note worthy about the HS50EXR :
Manual Zoom / focal length f=4.4 - 185mm, equivalent to 24 - 1000mm on a 35mm format
full-aperture F2.8 (Wide) - F5.6 (Telephoto) FAST for the Ranges Involved
Electronic Viewfinder 0.26-inch., approx. 920K-dot, color LCD viewfinder approx. 100% coverage
LCD monitor 3.0-inch, approx. 920K-dot, TFT color LCD monitor, Vari-Angle, approx. 100% coverage
Extremely FAST Auto Focus & Enough Processing Power to Keep Up with EVF & LCD Monitor
Movie recording 1920 x 1080 pixels / 1280 x 720 pixels (60 fps) / 640 x 480 pixels (30 fps) with stereo sound
Shutter speed (Auto mode) 1/4sec. to 1/4000sec., (All other modes) 30sec. to 1/4000sec.
Continuous shooting
H : approx. 11fps (max. 5 frames)
M : approx. 6.0fps (max. 5 frames)
L : approx. 3.0fps (max. 11 frames)
SH : approx. 16fps (max. 13 frames ; Size M,S)
Everyone including Myself is all Tweaked about a Camera's Lens IQ & It IS Important BUT IS NOT Everything Important about Cameras. . .
At ANY ONE TIME - ONLY ONE Camera in a Specific Class Will Hold the #1 Position in a Particular Spec. Like Lens IQ. How MANY AREAS are WINNERS is a More Basic Question. . .
Currently the SuperZoom or Bridge-Camera world is IQ Championed by the Canon SX-50. . .
The SX-50 DOES HAVE the BEST IQ I've Seen of ALL the Bridge-Cameras. . . BUT It Sucks in Other Areas for Example it has a 202k dot EVF which is Next to Worthless for Manual Focusing Tasks.
The HS50EXR can Also Be Excellent in Low Light. . .
Bend City Lights from atop Pilot Butte Oregon
For Some Odd Reason You Ended Up in the HS50EXR Section of this Forum. . . Maybe their's a Reason for that. . .
Cheers from Orion
HS50EXR @ 1,000mm - Seemingly Enough IQ for a Decent Moon Shot. . . :-D
Last edited:
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Wow!!!!! Enthusiasm can be infectious!
OK, so my recent brief forays into four heavier (DSLR) cameras, outside my Weight Limit, are not comparable with an HS30/50 or X-S1 expedition, because they are light and small for their zoom range and versatility. So let's forget about weight and size.
I must be a Limited Person, there is another Limit - I only shoot JPEGs, and when necessary I do a minimum of PP in Picasa, FastStone or PSE5.
So is your enthusiasm for the HS50 about SOOC JPEGs, or about heavy PP, or about RAW?
And is the EXR concept something you call in for poor light conditions, or do you shoot with it all the time? I am thinking about simplicity of use here. Yes, I know that it is about the sensor technology.
With the FZ200 JPEGs and light PP (when necessary), I am not seriously disadvantaged against the FZ200 RAW enthusiasts, by my simple standards, in the reasonable conditions I shoot in.
And, briefly, why HS50 not X-S1? The HS50 seems to be more popular, if prices and availability on the Used Market are any kind of guide. Fuji seem to have terminated the X-S1 line as well.
[ I would not acquire an X-S1 unless Fuji UK undertook to treat any Droop, Orb or soft long zoom focus issues as a General Recall matter. But that's my problem . . .
]Mike
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Adam-T
Forum Pro
I`d look into this first as the XS1 is a very worthy step up from the HS series in both sensor and lens quality - either get a new one (which is likely to be OK - they`re £375 new) so has to be OK one way or another, a used one from a dealer you get to try OR return if has issues[ I would not acquire an X-S1 unless Fuji UK undertook to treat any Droop, Orb or soft long zoom focus issues as a General Recall matter. But that's my problem . . .
Or a used one IF Fuji UK agree to undertake the acknowledged sensor orb issue - I`d ring them first .
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
Yes - thanks, Adam.
Mike
Mike
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
Hmm according to my own comparison, it is not. See how close the two in IQ even on the long zoom end where SX50 should be a clear winner.Orion12 wrote:
Hi Mike,
Selecting cameras has almost too many options these days. . .
Being that You're in the Hunt Mode I'll Suggest Something that relates to More than Cameras. . .
Don't be Too Certain about Exactly What You Want. . . Just Collect Data from Several Angles. . .
For Example IF You Hold Your "Weight Consideration" as a Be All & End All. . . You May End Up Sacrificing Camera Experiences & Levels of Creativity for Years to Come. . .
After being in a Similar Position several months ago I started Researching the Current Market and Ended Up with a Fuji HS50EXR. . . It's Not a PERFECT Camera but I have to Say it's the Most Fun & Versatile camera I've ever owned. I Love My Little HS50EXR - Yes I Called it LITTLE as One of the things it does for me is REPLACE and a Full Size Pentax K10D DSLR with a BAG FULL OF LENSES.
Don't get me wrong the HS50EXR does not Fully Compete with the Current Generation of DSLR's but it comes Close Enough for ME and for the $413 I Paid for it - It was a Steal. . .
Fuji Color - Y E S - Indeed - Fuji Color. . .
Here's a few things note worthy about the HS50EXR :
Manual Zoom / focal length f=4.4 - 185mm, equivalent to 24 - 1000mm on a 35mm format
full-aperture F2.8 (Wide) - F5.6 (Telephoto) FAST for the Ranges Involved
Electronic Viewfinder 0.26-inch., approx. 920K-dot, color LCD viewfinder approx. 100% coverage
LCD monitor 3.0-inch, approx. 920K-dot, TFT color LCD monitor, Vari-Angle, approx. 100% coverage
Extremely FAST Auto Focus & Enough Processing Power to Keep Up with EVF & LCD Monitor
Movie recording 1920 x 1080 pixels / 1280 x 720 pixels (60 fps) / 640 x 480 pixels (30 fps) with stereo sound
Shutter speed (Auto mode) 1/4sec. to 1/4000sec., (All other modes) 30sec. to 1/4000sec.
Continuous shooting
H : approx. 11fps (max. 5 frames)
M : approx. 6.0fps (max. 5 frames)
L : approx. 3.0fps (max. 11 frames)
SH : approx. 16fps (max. 13 frames ; Size M,S)
Everyone including Myself is all Tweaked about a Camera's Lens IQ & It IS Important BUT IS NOT Everything Important about Cameras. . .
At ANY ONE TIME - ONLY ONE Camera in a Specific Class Will Hold the #1 Position in a Particular Spec. Like Lens IQ. How MANY AREAS are WINNERS is a More Basic Question. . .
Currently the SuperZoom or Bridge-Camera world is IQ Championed by the Canon SX-50. . .
The SX-50 DOES HAVE the BEST IQ I've Seen of ALL the Bridge-Cameras. . .
Other than image stabilization and reach, there is nothing left to love about SX50 when compared to HS50. Lemme see, oh it is sub $300 now.
Adam-T
Forum Pro
It`s got a better sensor too (try it in RAW - it Rocks even at high ISOs for a pinhead and has good DR) - I`d love that sensor in a HS30 sized fuji (though with a better quality lens and Canon IS ) .
I dumped the SX50 because I found the awful handling drove me nuts after a while (as did the CA which was highlighted in RAW as it was with the HS20) and I ended up not using it as a consequence - it handles better than the SX30/40 but that`s not saying much .
Orion12
Senior Member
I Dreamed About and Looked Hard at the X-S1 to but was Never Taken by it's Softer IQ Look at it's Telephoto End. . . I Wanted to Force it into Something I couldn't See in Many of the Long Reach Shots. ( Because in Many Ways - The X-S1 is a Very Cool Camera )
This Kept Me LOOKING for More. . . Plus 26x Optical Zoom just Wasn't Enough to do FULL FRAME Moon Shots IN-CAMERA without Cropping - Maybe a Silly Fascination but STILL Something I wanted.
Here's a recent example of my HS50EXR @ 1000mm with a 1.54x Raynox Lens Attached giving 1,540mm Optical Equiv. and using the 2x Fuji Digital Intelli-Zoom for 3,080mm Large File Size / Full Framed In-Camera Capture. . .
It's Not the Most Awesome Moon Shot Ever but Maybe Not too Bad for a Digital Pixel Battle in Space. . .
So Far I've Shot Nothing but Jpegs with my HS50EXR BUT Have Just Recently Gotten some Interest in Doing Some RAW Processing - Just to See HOW FAR I Can Push the Detail.
As a General Rule I don't want to HAVE TO Process TOO MUCH !
I Have to Admit that in the End. . . IF it's a Photo I'm Going to Post to the Public I Will Tweak 1st in FastStone Image Viewer 4.8 OR LightZone. That's part of the Perfectionist Driver in me & Part the Lazy Photographer as I seen what some other Talented Shooters have done with SOOC Shots.
A Major Selling Point for ME was SEEING some SOOC HS50EXR Shots that I Thought Were Pretty Awesome. . . Here's one of the SOOC Collections I looked at http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/8449375668/albums/hs50-exr-sooc
Admittedly I've Gotten Better Shots AFTER Doing a Bunch of Experimental Shots which TAUGHT Me About some the Different Shooting Modes of the HS50EXR. This is Also Just Related to Basic Photographic Skills - Which I'm Still Picking Up as I go.
I do use EXR Modes a LOT as It's Easy for Me to UnderStand HOW the Sensor is Setting Up.
The Selectable (3) EXR Primary Modes of Sensor Operation are :
1. Resolution Priority / 16Mp Individual Pixel Sensor Sites
2. High ISO Low Noise / 8Mp Twin Pixel Sensor Sites
3. D-Range Priority / 8 Mp Twin Pixel Sensor Sites
Too Make a Long Story Shorter, the (2) 8Mp Modes let you Shorten & Enhance the Sensor Capture Times in Lower Light Conditions While Increasing the Quality which Makes it EASIER to Handle Lower Light Conditions. At Least that's ONE of It's Functions Relative as to how I use it.
Seems to Me the X-S1 was developed EARLIER and Because of Market Competitions Fuji had to Push the Envelope of the Less Expensive HS50EXR just to Compete with the SX-50 and Other STIFF Competition in the Bridge-Camera Scene. ( This Forced them to EXTEND the Lens to 42x / Which is a BIG PLUS to Me )
I wouldn't suggest WAITING for that to Happen ( I really don't have Any Insider Data here but - It Evidently HASN'T Happened YET ) May NEVER Happen. . . AND Still Only has a Relatively Soft 26x Lens. ( I Say Soft Compared to for Example the SX-50 at the 1200mm Range ). Call me Crazy but the HS50EXR in Some Types of Photos appears SHARPER at the TelePhoto End than the X-S1.[ I would not acquire an X-S1 unless Fuji UK undertook to treat any Droop, Orb or soft long zoom focus issues as a General Recall matter. But that's my problem . . .
Hope that Helps in some fashion or at least gives a reasonable perspective.
Good Luck & Choose Wisely. . .
Cheers from Orion
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Adam-T
Forum Pro
That`s a faulty lens - the early ones suffered and it gets fixed along with the ORBs - Paul Till has shown that the XS1`s long end is as sharp as an S100FS or S6500 if the lens isn`t faulty ........ I`ve seen this softness at the long end, it`s attrocious and no one would accept that.
Orion12
Senior Member
I had a Difficult Time trying Not to See this Fault & Kept Looking for a Few Months but NEVER Saw the Fix - I Eventually Decided on the HS50EXR & Have Been Really Happy with it. . .
It Great to Hear they Finally Fixed it - I'll have to Look for some RECENT Examples.
Cheers from Orion
C
cantanima
Guest
D-Range also allows one to lengthen sensor capture times, getting more shadow detail while preserving more highlights.
Mikedigi
Forum Pro
I've heard here that early X-S1s have had issues with image softness at the long end, sensor Orbs, purple patches, drooping lens etc, so as a cheapskate buyer I would have to try to get an X-S1 with a valid UK warranty or find a used one in a reputable store. HS50s do not appear to have had such issues.
Good Moon shot!
That's very encouraging!
Good to meet another FastStone devotee.
Yes, and he shares my obsession with rust, rope and flaking paint.
Thanks for the explanation of the EXR function.
The X-S1 reminds me of the Sony R1 concept - same ambitions, same short life. Brilliant, a bit off-piste, but in the case of the X-S1, Quality Control did not always do its job.
I've spoken to Fuji UK. The Orbs are a regular reason for sensor replacement free of charge. The lens softness, droop and other issues are rarer, according to Fuji, though they seem high-profile on this Forum. As I said above, I would have to tread carefully and ensure that I have got a valid UK warranty.I wouldn't suggest WAITING for that to Happen ( I really don't have Any Insider Data here but - It Evidently HASN'T Happened YET ) May NEVER Happen. . . AND Still Only has a Relatively Soft 26x Lens. ( I Say Soft Compared to for Example the SX-50 at the 1200mm Range ). Call me Crazy but the HS50EXR in Some Types of Photos appears SHARPER at the TelePhoto End than the X-S1.[ I would not acquire an X-S1 unless Fuji UK undertook to treat any Droop, Orb or soft long zoom focus issues as a General Recall matter. But that's my problem . . .
Yes, excellent, thanks very much.
Mike
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