Help with raptors, please. C&C welcome.

bathgate

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I just started trying to take photos of raptors in our area. I'm using a D7000 with the Nikon 70-300mm VR. These shots were the first ones with which I've used a monopod. I know i'm not really getting close enough to the birds to get great shots and I've got a lot to learn about how to do that. But that has left me having to severely crop my photos to get anything approaching decent images of the birds. With the combination of shooting at the far end of the zoom range on the 70-300, which many of you know can yield soft images and severe crops, I wind up with low resolution, soft images. Below are the best from my outing but none of them come close to the wonderful shots I see here every day. Other than having to spend $$$ on new, sharper, longer lenses, can any of you suggest techniques or other shooting advice to help me get better at this? I'd really like to do better.

Here are probably too many shots. C&C invited. Thanks in advance for your time and thoughts.

Michael








Hawk. Not sure what species.




Hawk 2




Hawk 3




Hawk 4




Hawk 5




White tailed kite




Kite 2




Kite 3




Kite 4
 
Sure! Set the self timer at 3 or maby 4 seconds. Get a firm grip of your D7000. Start the timer and in the same second you throw the camera at the bird. This may take a few tries but with a bit of practice and a little luck...

I´m sorry Michael - I just couldn´t help myself :-).

PS: Also "frustrated" when 300 is too little :-)

--
Regards 9ck
 
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I would say the primary issue is your distance, as you stated. It's not only a problem because of too few pixels on the bird, but also because your AF is less likely to be accurate at longer distance.

If you stay still in an area with quite a few of those birds, you have a decent chance of having them fly over you. If you get lucky, you will find an area where those birds aren't deathly afraid of humans.

It looks like your shots at high shutter speed are approaching the limit of the lens, but I think that shooting below 1/640 is too slow unless they are flying perpendicular to you and you have very good following technique. Also, it may be that VR is actually hurting you at shutter speeds generally required for BIFs. I don't know if that lens has an "active" VR mode.

Also, I would think the monopod would only make things more difficult for BIFs.
 
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Thanks for the laugh, 9ck! That was funny. But, hey -- maybe I'll try it sometime.

Michael
 
Thanks for the response, wildlifr. The monopod was an experiment. I think it helps with birds perched in trees more than it does for BIF. I tried shortening it and sticking the end into my belt to try to just give myself some additional support while panning or tracking, rather than having it on the ground but I'm not sure that worked. Handheld just feels like introducing so much camera shake, especially at the longer end of the lens, that I figured anything could help. I'm sure there's more for me to learn about good monopod technique.

The lens does have an active mode but I've never used it. I'll give that a try. Why would turning VR off completely help? Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by the higher SS approaching the limits of the lens. Is there something that you're seeing that suggests that? I was shooting in aperture priority, so the camera actually selected the SS.

Towards the end of my time there, I found a spot where I could sort of nestle into a stand of bushes and shoot outward rather than walking around. While that limited my potential field of vision from 360' to something less than 180', I do think it has some potential for having the birds come closer to me rather than trying to get closer to them but that starts to feel like throwing a bait into the water and just hoping that a fish happens by. I'm sure there are "stalking" techniques that could get me closer still. The lens is capable of pretty decent images. I have to get close enough to rely on it to do its job rather than cropping everything down to nothing.

Michael
 
bathgate wrote:

Thanks for the response, wildlifr. The monopod was an experiment. I think it helps with birds perched in trees more than it does for BIF. I tried shortening it and sticking the end into my belt to try to just give myself some additional support while panning or tracking, rather than having it on the ground but I'm not sure that worked. Handheld just feels like introducing so much camera shake, especially at the longer end of the lens, that I figured anything could help. I'm sure there's more for me to learn about good monopod technique.

The lens does have an active mode but I've never used it. I'll give that a try. Why would turning VR off completely help?
Some people say that VR can blur the image if you're trying to pan, but the active mode VR is supposed to take care of that. My wildlife lens doesn't have VR, so I don't have any experience with this.
Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by the higher SS approaching the limits of the lens. Is there something that you're seeing that suggests that? I was shooting in aperture priority, so the camera actually selected the SS.
I just meant that the images look pretty good at the faster shutter speeds, and whatever softness remains is probably a function of the lens limitations, and/or the distance. Also, I wouldn't shoot in aperture priority for BIFS. I use manual mode with auto-ISO. I can't recall if you can set a minimum shutter speed in aperture priority.
Towards the end of my time there, I found a spot where I could sort of nestle into a stand of bushes and shoot outward rather than walking around. While that limited my potential field of vision from 360' to something less than 180', I do think it has some potential for having the birds come closer to me rather than trying to get closer to them but that starts to feel like throwing a bait into the water and just hoping that a fish happens by. I'm sure there are "stalking" techniques that could get me closer still. The lens is capable of pretty decent images. I have to get close enough to rely on it to do its job rather than cropping everything down to nothing.

Michael
 
I think with that equipment you are not doing too badly. The images you have been seeing lately have often been with the d7100, with nearly twice the pixel density allowing for more cropping, and better lenses such as the 80-400mm af-s or Sigma 50-500 or Nikon 500mm f4.

Occasionally if the bird comes close and you are very quick you will get a god catch. Sometimes against the wind they move slowly. A coastal site is often a good place o start.
 
wildlifr wrote:
I just meant that the images look pretty good at the faster shutter speeds, and whatever softness remains is probably a function of the lens limitations, and/or the distance. Also, I wouldn't shoot in aperture priority for BIFS. I use manual mode with auto-ISO. I can't recall if you can set a minimum shutter speed in aperture priority.
Got it.

I've never shot in auto-ISO but I've been reading about it and will give it a try. So long as I can set the max ISO, I figure I'm ok.

I shoot RAW, so my files start out around 16MP. After cropping, some of these are little more than 1MP, even less as they posted here. I really need to get close enough to fill more of the frame. Thanks for the suggestions.

Michael
 
engbert wrote:

I think with that equipment you are not doing too badly. The images you have been seeing lately have often been with the d7100, with nearly twice the pixel density allowing for more cropping, and better lenses such as the 80-400mm af-s or Sigma 50-500 or Nikon 500mm f4.
Thanks, engbert. I may try renting the Sigma 50-500 to see what it is like to shoot with something like that. Unfortunately, the Nikon 500mm/f4 is way beyond me at the moment.
Occasionally if the bird comes close and you are very quick you will get a god catch. Sometimes against the wind they move slowly. A coastal site is often a good place o start.
The place where I was shooting is right on the coast. It was a very rare evening with no wind. The good news is that there was no fog. It was the first time we've had a golden hour locally in quite a while. Usually I feel like I'm shooting inside a big ball of cotton with nothing but diffuse, non-directional light. You can do some things with that but, ultimately, it gets boring.

Michael
 
Not a bad start especially the kites. As already said you are focal length limited, but there probably are places near you that raptors gather and you can get much closer. Ask a few birdwatchers, join a club or google it. Some raptors can be lured by food and camouflage helps then.

The 50-500 is a good idea for static birds but the AF is a little slow for birds in flight but clearly the next step up. Good luck.
 
I totally feel your pain, being in the same boat myself! I take a lot of bird pictures that I have to just sigh and say, Too far - too bad. Plus, I'm often doing it at dawn with low light, to boot.

What I have found that helps is taking full advantage of the low light capabilities of the camera and cranking the ISO up to 16 hundred if I have to to keep my shutter speed up. It doesn't work all the time, but sometimes it helps.

If I'm shooting at a shutter speed over 1000, I turn the VR off. It slows the AF down at that speed. You'll lock on much faster without it.

Have you tried shooting birds in flight in 3D yet? I've just started experimenting with it, and have gotten some good results. If you can get focus once, it tracks your subject around pretty successfully. Good luck and good hunting.

--

All the best,
Kit
 
Thanks, Brandon. I checked out your Flickr pages and you've got some great bird images. Congrats.

Good advice on talking to some local birders. I'm sure I can find some as the area definitely lends itself to that. I'm also quite intrigued by your suggestion of being able to lure in raptors with food. What do you use? Surely we're not talking about Purina Raptor Chow! Do I need dead rodents?

Michael
 
kithg wrote:

What I have found that helps is taking full advantage of the low light capabilities of the camera and cranking the ISO up to 16 hundred if I have to to keep my shutter speed up. It doesn't work all the time, but sometimes it helps.
Thanks, Kit. I was shooting at sunset and into dusk, so cranking ISO makes sense. An earlier responder suggested auto-ISO and I think I'll at least try that, probably setting max at either 1600 or even trying all the way to 3200 if necessary.
If I'm shooting at a shutter speed over 1000, I turn the VR off. It slows the AF down at that speed. You'll lock on much faster without it.
I'll try that. Have you used Active VR? My 70-300mm has it but I haven't used it yet. I believe it is suggested for panning shots.
Have you tried shooting birds in flight in 3D yet? I've just started experimenting with it, and have gotten some good results. If you can get focus once, it tracks your subject around pretty successfully. Good luck and good hunting.
Haven't tried 3D, but I will. I've generally been shooting in AF-C with release set for focus. Pretty good for locking on to movement across the frame but probably not as good for things moving towards the camera. Thanks for the suggestion.

You've got some nice images on your Flickr page. I love the Osprey with catch.

Michael

 
9b681af8c8f34e928b9d4fb8b2dd422d.jpg


here a few i took 3 weeks ago

--
Robert McNeil
 
bathgate wrote:

Thanks, Brandon. I checked out your Flickr pages and you've got some great bird images. Congrats.

Good advice on talking to some local birders. I'm sure I can find some as the area definitely lends itself to that. I'm also quite intrigued by your suggestion of being able to lure in raptors with food. What do you use? Surely we're not talking about Purina Raptor Chow! Do I need dead rodents?

Michael
Michael, thank you for you kind comments. I was talking about Red Kites in the UK. There are lots of them in a number of places and I lay trails of sausages or apples which bring them down in droves. I hide against a nearby bush and shoot them coming in and flying out. I'm not sure what raptors are bold enough for this but certainly the scavenging ones are like kites.
 
Great idea, Brandon. I've got an area near me with a lot of white-tailed kites. I'll try sausages and apples and see if they come for them. We've been in dense fog since the last time I shot them a few days ago, which is about right for this place at this time of year. But we should start seeing more sun within the next few weeks. I'll post some shots if luring them with food gets me close. Can't wait.

Michael
 
Beautiful shot, Robert. Thanks.

I live on the coast, too, but I've never seen any local raptors hunting fish. We have lots of hawks that typically hunt rodents and snakes in the fields and scrub on the bluffs overlooking the ocean. I've also just recently found an area with lots of white-tailed kites but I've yet to see what they eat. I'm very intrigued by the notion of using food to lure them closer to get better images. I suspect, though, that if I tried fish I'd quickly be overwhelmed by gulls and pelicans.

Michael
 
The lens does have an active mode but I've never used it. I'll give that a try. Why would turning VR off completely help?
Some people argue that the VR system actually causes blur, especially at high shutter speeds, and/or that at high shutter speeds you should just turn it off as it does at best nothing. I disagree with this, based on my own experience and testing, as does Nikon, Canon, Sigma and probably Tamron (haven't checked their manuals). With modern camera bodies and modern lenses the manufacturer's recommendation is almost always to keep VR on permanently, including at high shutter speeds.

There is something to be said for the quality of the blur, granted. When VR doesn't work perfectly - typically because you're just pushing it too hard - VR tends to produce more ghosting-like effects where you have multiple sharp edges slightly out of alignment, vs a more smeared, softer look without VR. Some people just prefer the latter, which is fine [as a subjective choice].

But be aware that particularly for small targets, the use of VR can be invaluable if for no other reason than it keeps the viewfinder image more stable and can help you keep the focus point centred on your target. Provided you have camera shake at least mostly under control, you'll then actually more often find that your distant birds are blurry not because of vestigial motion blur, but because the focus just wasn't spot on. Even with VR you'll probably find this occurs more often than you'd like. I recommend deliberately focusing on something else, then go back to the bird and repeat your shot. It simply increases your odds that the camera will focus perfectly. And/or use AF-C mode and just take many exposures while the camera tweaks AF back and forth slightly (this is useful even for close subjects that are furry, feathery, etc, as the AF can't necessarily tell which bit is the eye or the beak or the ear or whatever it is that you're really intending to hit).
Some people say that VR can blur the image if you're trying to pan, but the active mode VR is supposed to take care of that. My wildlife lens doesn't have VR, so I don't have any experience with this.
You have that backwards, at least for Nikon lenses - "Normal" mode is for typical use, where you are stationary but may or may not be panning, while "Active" is intended only for when you are moving (and as such it doesn't try to detect panning, but rather assumes any such perceived effect is a result of your own motion, and tries to stabilise it anyway). If you don't believe me, check your manual - it'll probably say something like the following, which comes from the AF-S 80-400's:

"Slide the vibration reduction mode switch to NORMAL for panning shots. When the camera is panned, vibration reduction applies only to motion that is not part of the pan (if the camera is panned horizontally, for ex- ample, vibration reduction will be applied only to vertical shake), making it much easier to pan the camera smoothly in a wide arc."

Backing up to the original topic, I recommend simple persistence for bird of prey photos. If you're out there enough, watching them and being patient, you'll eventually get one fly close by, or even land nearby. I've had a few red-tailed hawks happily sit there on a fence post or in the grass while I walk up to them, all of five feet away, and snap off a hundred photos (I get excited in these situations, as they are rare and precious :) ).

You'll also just get more familiar with their patterns, habits, hang-outs, etc. These differ by species and geographical location, so it's probably best to just observe for yourself.
 
Great idea, Brandon. I've got an area near me with a lot of white-tailed kites. I'll try sausages and apples and see if they come for them. We've been in dense fog since the last time I shot them a few days ago, which is about right for this place at this time of year. But we should start seeing more sun within the next few weeks. I'll post some shots if luring them with food gets me close. Can't wait.
I caution you not to bait them. As wild animals it's not good for them to be encouraged to associate with humans, nor to eat human food like sausages that may simply not be good for them at all. It can also lead to over-consumption and loss of natural hunting skills, if it happens too often.

I feel your pain of wishing they'd just fly down close and pose nicely, but please respect them and put their best interests ahead of yours.
 

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