Things about photographers that tick me off: From a photographer's point of view.

StayClassy

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*All pictures in this thread were shot with my Sony A99.

So I'm writing this because of an experience I had today at B&H. While waiting on line for the used department to scoop up a 35-105mm Minolta lens for my A99, a Canon guy started to guffaw at my A99 hanging around my shoulder. Mind you, I have never been formally trained in the art of photography. I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him. Which brings me to my first point:

1) The brand doesn't F*&%$#G matter, it's the man behind the lens that does!

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There is an insufferable attitude with most photographers that the gear = photographic skill. That couldn't be further from the truth. While the camera does have some importance in terms of performance (ISO performance, noise capabilities, OSS, etc.), a crappy camera can return better shots than the most expensive setup with someone with little to no skill. It's a lot like being a motorcycle rider: you can have an 1100cc Kawasaki, and some guy on a 400cc Yamaha can still outpace you. Why? Skill of the rider, not so much the ability of the bike. However, when a photographer believes that they are truly "skilled", they bring me to point #2:

2) You are not the best, and being famous/highly paid is nary a mark of success or skill.

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As a 22 year young, inexperienced photographer (in terms of years on this planet), I'm still coming across situations where the perfect moment eluded me simply because I made a bad judgment call on my settings. I don't claim to be the best, nor do I claim to be "good". I only claim to be "competent". Yet, time and time again, I run across photographers who insist that because they are working for (insert company here) or that they have (insert trust fund here) in the bank, that they are superior to you and therefore, have credible information. Now, I'm open to tips and pointers. But when the person giving those tips and pointers has the attitude of someone who you'd swear just fell out of Prince William's porcelain throne, you can't help but just blank them out. Why? I'd rather learn the hard way, practicing and perfecting my art the hard way (shot by shot). Being someone of status and credibility is a very respectable thing, of course. However, if pop music is to teach us anything, it's that talent often comes second to who you know. Why would photography be anything different? So let's move to point #3:

3) Once you have enough skill, equipment does matter. But for reasons you might not think.

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You'd be forgiven if your first thought was, "wait, didn't you just say that equipment doesn't matter?!". That still holds true. But there is a certain point where you reach a level of photographic ability that warrants you having to purchase a better camera and lens for better DOF/high ISO/OSS capabilities (among other features). But this brings me directly to my last point:

4) You don't know me from a hole in the wall, so how can you judge me based on my brand of camera?



Miss Universe, 2013.
Miss Universe, 2013.

So now that we've established that skill versus equipment are linked, but not to the degree that most photographers like to pretend it is, why do many photographers still insist on judging someone based on their brand of camera? If I bought a camera, it is most likely because that camera has certain features which suit my needs. At that point, can't we just agree to enjoy the art of shooting photos, and not shooting at each other because you're afraid that someone else might have a bigger lens than you? One of my fondest experiences was shooting a concert alongside a Canon buff with the 1DX. We spent the latter part of our pre-concert setup with me silently ignoring his sales pitch on how the 1DX is superior to the Sony in every way, and ended with my photos being picked for internal use. Why? I chose equipment that suited my style: EVF for the ability to change settings on the fly without needing test shots, Full Frame for high-ISO handling, and the ability to shoot with vintage Minolta glass, which saves me money but gives me great optical ability. Sure, the 1DX outclasses my Sony in almost every category, but in reality, the world doesn't work on spec sheets.

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--
When people ask me whether I'm a photographer, I tell them that I'm more of a time artist. After all, my art is my ability to freeze time and capture a moment forever.
 
Man, you take one crazy guy as a universal truth. I've never cared or paid attention to what the guy next to me was shooting. It's fun to mess around on the boards, but in the field, who cares?

If a guy laughs at the camera you have, he's an insecure idiot. End of story, don't let it get to you.
 
Very true, but keep in mind that I was shooting on Sony since the A57 first came out, and I've tolerated this kind of pigheaded nonsense for far too long. Today was the straw that broke the camel's back.

But I totally agree with you :D
 
StayClassy wrote:

I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him.
The one that continues to mystify me is "the rule of halves". What the hey were they thinkin' ? I tend to defer maximal credit to the existence of interesting subject-matter and favorable lighting. That way, nobody is tempted to grow a fat head about stuff. I just point and then polish later.

:P
 
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Detail Man wrote:
StayClassy wrote:

I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him.
The one that continues to mystify me is "the rule of halves". What the hey were they thinkin' ? I tend to defer maximal credit to the existence of interesting subject-matter and favorable lighting. That way, nobody in tempted to grow a fat head about stuff. I just point and then polish later.

:P
THANK YOU. I'd rather see a moment that has something interesting going on, and just "point and spray" then spend an hour framing according to some arbitrary rules, only to have the moment vanish as fast as my shutter speed.
 
StayClassy wrote:
Detail Man wrote:
StayClassy wrote:

I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him.
The one that continues to mystify me is "the rule of halves". What the hey were they thinkin' ? I tend to defer maximal credit to the existence of interesting subject-matter and favorable lighting. That way, nobody in tempted to grow a fat head about stuff. I just point and then polish later.
THANK YOU. I'd rather see a moment that has something interesting going on, and just "point and spray" then spend an hour framing according to some arbitrary rules, only to have the moment vanish as fast as my shutter speed.
One's own eyes are the "golden mean" in the end where it comes to desired eventual framing.

In this digital age, I am a firm believer in the "gatling gun" approach. The stars (perspective on subject-matter, lighting conditions and distribution, possible subject movement, focus-integrity, and camera-stability) only align for brief moments in some situations (and on a statistical basis). I usually shoot quite a few in order to hopefully ensure just a handful of candidates for later processing.

Framing (in my approach) is a combination of guessing at the point of capture while intentionally leaving some margin, and later investigating the resulting desired "balances" in processing.

Shooting RAW (at least with decent equipment) helps to free one from obsessing over setting recorded image-brightness at the point of capture. What counts for SNR is to maximize sensor-level Exposure (minimizing F-Number and Shutter Speed as much as considerations allow). Ditto for white balance. The last thing that I want is to "torpedo" what may be a "keeper".

As in learning a musical instrument, "borrowing" can be educational, but one must eventually find their own "voice", and learn to make their instrument "speak" from one's own heart.

In photography, the process is more distributed over time and is far more like "listening" than it is about "speaking". The best that one can do is to attempt to witness what already exists in the world, and hope that the perspective, framing, and polish-ability inspire the mind's eye later.
When people ask me whether I'm a photographer, I tell them that I'm more of a time artist. After all, my art is my ability to freeze time and capture a moment forever.
(Perhaps) the moments capture you ? My shots often seem to find me - not the other way around.

DM ... :P
 
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Hi,

Photographers are firstly human and photography is a walk of life where gear seems to play a huge role in some people's egos and insecurities. It's the reason that brands like today's Hassleblad can command prices beyond their worth as a tool and why DPR forums are full of gear arguments. There are others - real estate, cars, fashion, exclusive wrist watches, etc. In amongst it all are people who genuinely love photography and aren't fazed by all that BS. You just struck someone who was prepared to scoff at your choices in order to feel good himself. Shoot what you like and what works for you.

Rod
 
...I've never judged a photo by the merits of the equipment it was shot with or the credentials of the photographer.

I've seen brilliant shots from any number of systems, including cell phones, and, much more commonly, I've seen POS pics from any number of systems, including FF.

For some people, the camera is a tool. For some camera's, the person using it is a tool. Considering how many have cameras, you're bound to run into a few of each. ;-)
 
Detail Man wrote:
StayClassy wrote:

I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him.
The one that continues to mystify me is "the rule of halves". What the hey were they thinkin' ? I tend to defer maximal credit to the existence of interesting subject-matter and favorable lighting. That way, nobody is tempted to grow a fat head about stuff. I just point and then polish later.

:P

Wait, rule of halves?

We need one rule: Rule of "Shoot whatever looks good".

I can understand the necessity of composition when teaching inexperienced photographers about the art of photography, but as someone who was born being irked by a crooked horizon or a photo that has half of the subject irresponsibly chopped off, I can't help but feel at times as though you either have the eye, or you don't.

I'm not implying that we're elitist for having "the eye", but just like how some people are natural born chefs, or natural born athletes, some people are just not cut out to be photographers.

At some point, you have to just break the rules.
 
"So, I'm a non-conformist."

"I bought a camera, not a sexual fetish"

"My camera sees more action than your Johnson gets from your right hand."

"My camera is not a penile substitute."
 
StayClassy wrote:
Detail Man wrote:
StayClassy wrote:

I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him.
The one that continues to mystify me is "the rule of halves". What the hey were they thinkin' ? I tend to defer maximal credit to the existence of interesting subject-matter and favorable lighting. That way, nobody is tempted to grow a fat head about stuff. I just point and then polish later.
Wait, rule of halves?
Tongue place firmly in cheek, of course. Some things have a tendency to be self-evident.
We need one rule: Rule of "Shoot whatever looks good".
That could possibly result in a rather long prison sentence ... ;)
I can understand the necessity of composition when teaching inexperienced photographers about the art of photography, but as someone who was born being irked by a crooked horizon or a photo that has half of the subject irresponsibly chopped off, I can't help but feel at times as though you either have the eye, or you don't.

I'm not implying that we're elitist for having "the eye", but just like how some people are natural born chefs, or natural born athletes, some people are just not cut out to be photographers.
"Talent" seems to me like a judgment that others may make when they fail to understand how much patience, perspiration, and prior eliminations took place. "Pros" may be folks who know how to be highly self-critical of their results, and who are wise enough to present only their best efforts.

Nobody really controls the aesthetic druthers of an "audience". Perhaps better not to try to second-guess or cater to such mysteries. Nothing seems more flummoxing than when they fawn over and rave about the particular ones that you personally despise. Reminds one of the limitations surrounding subjective concepts regarding, as well as imposing, "templates of taste".
At some point, you have to just break the rules.
A horizon is a phenomena of vision. One cannot look at the horizon; it is simply the point beyond which we can see. There is nothing in the horizon itself, however, that limits vision, for the horizon opens onto all that lies beyond itself. What limits vision is rather the incompleteness of that vision.

We are never somewhere in relation to the horizon since the horizon moves with our vision. We can only be somewhere by turning away from the horizon, by replacing vision with opposition, by declaring the place on which we stand to be timeless - a sacred region, a holy land, a body of truth, a code of inviolable commandments. To be somewhere is to absolutize time, space, and number.

- James P Carese, Finite and Infinite Games
 
You don't think a new Leica would make that butt-ugly Rolls-Royce look better? :-)

And, looking at the Ferrari photo, am surprised there isn't a Ferrari-branded bra, with the straps sort of like the seat belts. Girls could wear it outside their tops. Sizes like F-34, F-36, F-38... or, for McDonalds devotees, the über-status F-50.

Good writing. Agree with your thoughts but hope they are not accepted -- I'd like to see the camera industry flourish, in the face of smartphone improvements, and so I'm hoping that they can keep the new-gear cycle alive and well. I have a Sony RX100, and am looking at a Ricoh GR... saving up for Christmas! Need, no... want, yes.

[Free advice] from a retired ad agency guy, then a multimedia design guy -- it's all about words and pictures. ALWAYS keep writing and photographing. For your generation, learn how to tell simple stories with video. If you can sketch, keep practicing. Because there will be many key points in your career when you will want to 'sell the car' ... to get your point across ... or to help others do so. Don't get locked into being just a 'picture guy' or just a 'words guy'. Be both, and you'll always add value to whatever you end up doing, and be the last person laid off in the periodic crashes that seem to be the new normal. [/end free advice]
 
Time ago I decided I wanted to buy a DSLR. At the time I was using Sony compacts (F828 to be precise, which wasn't that "compact" at all but which I still remember with fondness), but Sony was not an option then (as in the first Alpha DSLR hit the shops a couple of years later) and my choice was essentially between Canon and Nikon.

For various reasons I went for Canon, and shortly got locked-in, as in I spent too much money on lenses to make a brand swap a viable option. But even if it was a viable option... I wouldn't be interested. Not because I think the other brands are inferior - I would probably pick Nikon if I were to start from scratch nowadays (with Canon as the second choice).... but because the gear I have does not hinder me in any way shape or form.

So to me gear is nothing more than tools that allow me to translate my vision into photographs. When I am not successful in doing that, I know it's usually my fault (or of the model or of the creative team, since I am interested in fashion photography), not the fault of my camera or lenses. It certainly does not depend on what other photographers are using to shoot.

I agree with most of what you say. It irks me to no end when someone tells me something along the lines of "great photo, you must have a very good camera and/or lens". Yes I do have good gear. But a) I could have achieved similar results with other brands' gear and... b) there's always better gear :) So I find those discussions fairly pointless.



I have to ask though... what's up with Sony shooters being "victimized" by nasty Canon owners? you're not the first one I read about in these forums, not by a long shot :)
 
StayClassy wrote:

*All pictures in this thread were shot with my Sony A99.

So I'm writing this because of an experience I had today at B&H. While waiting on line for the used department to scoop up a 35-105mm Minolta lens for my A99, a Canon guy started to guffaw at my A99 hanging around my shoulder.
There is nothing wrong about your A99, it is one of the most capable cameras in the world for the kind of photography, nothing to lough about, especially not from a guy having a Canon.

;)
 
I'm afraid the only real option is to toughen up.

Photography has always had a bit of gear snobbery to it. It seems easy to fall into the trap of confusing your camera with YOU! In the 1960's, if you didn't shoot a Leica or a Rollie, or a Hasselblad, you were considered somehow a lesser photographer. Even guys with Nikon F's aspired to a Leica, it was a badge of 'seriousness'. This attitude has been around a long time. Those of us who walk on the "wild side" will always be misunderstood.

Now I'm an older, recently retired guy myself so I'm not ragging on them as an outsider, but I DO see this behavior in the recently retired. They retire, have nothing better to do, and decide to take up photography. So they go out and blow 3-4 grand on whatever they think will impress their brother-in-law, who they never liked anyway.

I shoot with an Olympus E30 and an E500, I don't care what anyone thinks, I have yet to find anything that I like better. A couple of years ago, on vacation in North Carolina, I encountered a guy with a Canon of some sort, and a HUGE white lens. And in spite of my reluctance and strong signals, he wanted to talk 'cameras'.

The condescension on his part was idiotic. He had nothing with him that would allow him to SEE, much less focus on anything less than a mile away. He was unable to even be aware of this scene , much less take its picture. (Sorry for the low IQ, The original is on a backup disk, so I took it from a photo showcase website and I'm not sure the simple copy method I used was adequate.)

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My advice? Ignore them.

--
I still like soup. . .
Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
 
Glen Barrington wrote:

I'm afraid the only real option is to toughen up.

Photography has always had a bit of gear snobbery to it. It seems easy to fall into the trap of confusing your camera with YOU! In the 1960's, if you didn't shoot a Leica or a Rollie, or a Hasselblad, you were considered somehow a lesser photographer. Even guys with Nikon F's aspired to a Leica, it was a badge of 'seriousness'. This attitude has been around a long time. Those of us who walk on the "wild side" will always be misunderstood.

Now I'm an older, recently retired guy myself so I'm not ragging on them as an outsider, but I DO see this behavior in the recently retired. They retire, have nothing better to do, and decide to take up photography. So they go out and blow 3-4 grand on whatever they think will impress their brother-in-law, who they never liked anyway.

I shoot with an Olympus E30 and an E500, I don't care what anyone thinks, I have yet to find anything that I like better. A couple of years ago, on vacation in North Carolina, I encountered a guy with a Canon of some sort, and a HUGE white lens. And in spite of my reluctance and strong signals, he wanted to talk 'cameras'.

The condescension on his part was idiotic. My advice? Ignore them.
 
StayClassy wrote:
Detail Man wrote:
StayClassy wrote:

I don't really understand the rules of thirds. I'm what I like to call a "mutt photographer"- someone who looks at the picture through his viewfinder, and composes on what looks the best to him.
The one that continues to mystify me is "the rule of halves". What the hey were they thinkin' ? I tend to defer maximal credit to the existence of interesting subject-matter and favorable lighting. That way, nobody is tempted to grow a fat head about stuff. I just point and then polish later.

:P
Wait, rule of halves?
We need one rule: Rule of "Shoot whatever looks good".
This I disagree with. All art is built on choices, it is more than a reaction to what is going on around you. I bet if you think about your best shots, you were in a sort of contemplative mood that allowed you to SEE your environment in a specific manner. You are bringing an editorial approach to what you shoot whether you realize it or not. You are doing more than shooting what "looks good".
I can understand the necessity of composition when teaching inexperienced photographers about the art of photography, but as someone who was born being irked by a crooked horizon or a photo that has half of the subject irresponsibly chopped off, I can't help but feel at times as though you either have the eye, or you don't.
see my comments above.
I'm not implying that we're elitist for having "the eye", but just like how some people are natural born chefs, or natural born athletes, some people are just not cut out to be photographers.
At some point, you have to just break the rules.
You can't break the rules if you don't know what the rules are. The difference between a monkey at a typewriter and an author is intent. If you don't know the rules, you can't choose to follow them. And sometimes, some photos, do work better following the rules than not. It is knowing the difference that makes one an artist.

I have yet to find a single artist of any field that regrets his or her training. There are plenty who felt frustration at not being able to shoot/paint/sculpt what they want at the time, but none who regret the knowledge they gained.
 
Cope wrote:

I don't think it's a Canon or Nikon thing, there are just arrogant people in this world. I used Minolta/Konica Minolta from 1975 until 2006. I switched to Nikon because I wasn't sure where Sony was going, but I have several good friends who still shoot A Mount, and I think it's the camera holder and not the camera that matters.

--
Never ask a man where he's from. If he is from Texas, he'll tell you. Otherwise, don't embarrass him.
Well the kind of people I refer to DO buy Canon and Nikon exclusively (and if they are wealthy enough, Leica), and it has nothing to do with the quality of the gear. It's the bragging rights, its the ability to define your own worth by the perceived value of the stuff they own.

I am by no means trying to imply all Canon or Nikon (or even Leica) users are like this. However this sort of person is part of the social baggage all Canon and Nikon users have to deal with. The grass is always greener. . .

--
I still like soup. . .
Now that you've judged the quality of my typing, take a look at my photos. . .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7267302@N03/
 
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roby17269 wrote:
...
I have to ask though... what's up with Sony shooters being "victimized" by nasty Canon owners? you're not the first one I read about in these forums, not by a long shot :)
...
If Sony owners get victimised in this forum - I speak as owner of an A55, and therefore whereof I know - there is a very good forum for Alpha/SLT and another one for NEX. And if someone said something stupid to me in a camera shop, I'd answer him back in one of my other languages; followed by the observation that since even babies can learn <fill in the blank>, he must be a real cretin not to understand me. Canoninstas who frequent the camera shops in Milan, Turin, and Genova, you have been warned!
 

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