Reading mode: Light Dark

Worried about the future of Canon's Txi/XXXD Line after seeing T5i...

Go to last post
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:
I would disagree. It does not appear that Canon has improved AF for the Rebel line. My old XSi focused much more reliably than my T3i which seems to hunt for focus a lot especially for closeups. I basically cannot use AF for macro and it used to work fairly well for my XSi.

--
Jim, AKA camperjim, formerly from liny, Long Island New York
Click to expand...
Actually, I had the opposite experience - the AF accuracy on my T3i is better than it was on XTi. May have something to do with particular body.

However, I was talking about T4i - starting with that model Canom introduced all cross type focus points, where it used to be that only the center point was cross-type.

I like my T3i and will not upgrade unless Canon comes up with something really spectacular. However I think Nikon cameras beat Canon in DR. Not as important to me since I mainly shoot portraits. But if I take a landscape shot in a high contrast situation, I wish I had more DR.
 
Amamba said:
Amamba wrote:

Actually, I had the opposite experience - the AF accuracy on my T3i is better than it was on XTi. May have something to do with particular body.

However, I was talking about T4i - starting with that model Canom introduced all cross type focus points, where it used to be that only the center point was cross-type.

I like my T3i and will not upgrade unless Canon comes up with something really spectacular. However I think Nikon cameras beat Canon in DR. Not as important to me since I mainly shoot portraits. But if I take a landscape shot in a high contrast situation, I wish I had more DR.
Click to expand...
Do you shoot RAW and use DPP as your RAW converter?
 
The technology that use the image sensor for focusing is nothing new. Granted that it is contrast detection, not phase detection, but the mirrorless camp has gotten it worked to perfection.

Canon was forced to come up with an AF technology using image sensor so the T4i camera can focus in movie mode. Panasonic had that since GH1.
 
DVT80111 said:
DVT80111 wrote:

The technology that use the image sensor for focusing is nothing new. Granted that it is contrast detection, not phase detection, but the mirrorless camp has gotten it worked to perfection.

Canon was forced to come up with an AF technology using image sensor so the T4i camera can focus in movie mode. Panasonic had that since GH1.
Click to expand...
Which means it is NEW sensor technology.

Why they had to come up with the new sensor technology, or that other companies do the same thing using different technology means nothing.
 
Is there any DSLR (non-mirrorless) that can actually focus, for example, on a dog running full blast toward and away from the camera?

As I been playing around with the 40mm STM on my T4i, focusing is a heck of a lot better than the T2i, but I have noticed focus hunt with fast panning. I think all DSLRs do this to some extent, but there is a limit to how fast any DSLR is going to be able to focus big, heavy lenses in video AF mode while panning fast on a subject that is moving toward or away from the camera.
 
If I were you, I would be more worried about being hit by car next week and killed, OR that you develop cancer, OR that you get ulcers due to your worrying, OR you should really go out and get drunk & oh, take your camera and take some bar shots!

You will NEVER ever be upward compatible, Nikon or Canon, so take the Canon back, buy a gun, shoot yourself in head OR settle down and learn to use your camera BETTER !

The lens elec. interface has adequate capability to use newer lens, especially with a newer camera. Canon is trying new lens tech so video will not pick up the noise of zooming.

So, go to bar, get drunk, think about something else! & ENJOY something??

Doug Pardee said:
Doug Pardee wrote:

Personally, and so far nobody's seen fit to post a comment agreeing with me, so maybe I'm alone in this...

I think Canon has decided that the future lies in video. Their recent DSLR updates have primarily been focused on improving the video performance of their cameras (and lenses: the STM AF drive). In the process, they've been ignoring the still photography capabilities.

Perhaps the updates to the 7D and 60D, if they ever materialize, will prove me wrong. One can hope. Until/unless that happens, I now consider Canon to be a high-end video camera manufacturer, whose cameras can also take still photographs.

My big concern — and again, maybe I'm alone in this — is that the EOS lens interface was never designed for video, and it sucks at it. If Canon truly is looking at video as the future, we may see an all-new lens mount in the next few years. If so, (and at this point the "ifs" are piling up pretty high), will EOS lenses work on the new lens mount, or will they join FD/FL lenses in the "antique" bin?

--
The open-source LightZone Project: http://lightzoneproject.org/
Click to expand...
 
JJ Rodin said:
JJ Rodin wrote:

If I were you, I would be more worried about being hit by car next week and killed, OR that you develop cancer, OR that you get ulcers due to your worrying, OR you should really go out and get drunk & oh, take your camera and take some bar shots!

You will NEVER ever be upward compatible, Nikon or Canon, so take the Canon back, buy a gun, shoot yourself in head OR settle down and learn to use your camera BETTER !
Click to expand...
As I saw this thread title this AM (and hadn't planned to post anymore) the same thought occurred to me - why be 'worried' about a model of digital camera? Worry about the economy, or your family, or your job, or your health, or the homeless, or something worth worrying about.

I have a Canon T3i, like it very much, and if Canon gives up making this series (and I see no evidence of that) I will buy something else. They are not abandoning the camera market.

Stop worrying about the gear, enjoy using it instead - and worry about something that's worth worrying about.
JJ Rodin said:
JJ Rodin said:
Doug Pardee wrote:

Personally, and so far nobody's seen fit to post a comment agreeing with me, so maybe I'm alone in this...

I think Canon has decided that the future lies in video. Their recent DSLR updates have primarily been focused on improving the video performance of their cameras (and lenses: the STM AF drive). In the process, they've been ignoring the still photography capabilities.

Perhaps the updates to the 7D and 60D, if they ever materialize, will prove me wrong. One can hope. Until/unless that happens, I now consider Canon to be a high-end video camera manufacturer, whose cameras can also take still photographs.

My big concern — and again, maybe I'm alone in this — is that the EOS lens interface was never designed for video, and it sucks at it. If Canon truly is looking at video as the future, we may see an all-new lens mount in the next few years. If so, (and at this point the "ifs" are piling up pretty high), will EOS lenses work on the new lens mount, or will they join FD/FL lenses in the "antique" bin?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Midwest said:
Midwest wrote:
As I saw this thread title this AM (and hadn't planned to post anymore) the same thought occurred to me - why be 'worried' about a model of digital camera? Worry about the economy, or your family, or your job, or your health, or the homeless, or something worth worrying about.

I have a Canon T3i, like it very much, and if Canon gives up making this series (and I see no evidence of that) I will buy something else. They are not abandoning the camera market.

Stop worrying about the gear, enjoy using it instead - and worry about something that's worth worrying about.
Click to expand...
Right, if you are worrying about your bag of Canon lenses, eBay is not going away anytime soon.
 
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:
jrkliny said:
. Nobody around here has shown one bit of proof beyond dxo scores. ..........

Nobody has to provide gallery photos as proof. I prefer to see something beyond chart scores.

--
It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice.
Click to expand...
You seem really stubborn about the possibility that a new 24 mpix sensor might outperform Canon's 4 year old 18 mpix sensor. I don't know anything about a DXO, but if you want to see another opinion I would suggest you read the DPR preliminary evaluation of the 7100. You can already see the studio comparison images. Or you could always wait until the final review when DPR spells it out bluntly.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying the new 24mp sensor might not outperform Canon's.There may well be test photos etc. that show differences between Canon and Nikon or whomever, but I'm not going to get into a lather over it with someone whose only real interest is in specs and test result charts. If they have nothing to show me of their own, I'm not worried enough to join them in fretting over what is working fine for me at present.

My interest is photography, not wringing my hands in despair that another camera's sensor might be better at the moment.

--
It's nice to say that nice pictures are nice.
 
Last edited:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:
jrkliny said:
Midwest wrote:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
.............
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
My interest is photography, not wringing my hands in despair that another camera's sensor might be better at the moment.

--
Click to expand...
It seems that this is a forum to discuss Canon Rebel cameras. To my way of thinking, the sensor is the heart of the camera and the the camera's image quality. If your interest is "photography" and not gear, I can recommend some other forums. Some are on DPR; others are elsewhere. I am not trying to be rude, but I am serious. If you are looking for more suitable forums, send me a private message and I can recommend a few. Actually, I don't participate here very often, but I am considering my next camera and printer acquisitons and DPR is the best for that type of discussion.

Jim, AKA camperjim, formerly from liny, Long Island New York
Click to expand...
This is the correct forum for Midwest. I'm interested in photography also. How to better my photography by better understanding my t4i.

the sensor is only one piece of the camera. To understand that try taking a picture without a lens. Like you, I'm not trying to be rude, but really trying to understand why my t4i is now a piece of garbage Because DXO rated a camera more highly than mine.
 
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:

It seems that this is a forum to discuss Canon Rebel cameras. To my way of thinking, the sensor is the heart of the camera and the the camera's image quality.
Click to expand...
It may be, but considering the $520 T3i, $750 60D, and $1250 7D (current body prices), a camera is a wee bit more than just a 'sensor holder box'.

Better sensor will not help you if you miss the shot fumbling with limited controls, or miss an action shot due to slow burst, or because you run out of buffer, or because your AF can't keep up, or because you are scared to take out your camera in a rain.

Of all things, I consider sensor to be the least limiting part of my camera at the moment. If the only 60D-70D update is a 36MP sensor with 3 stops more DR and 3 more stops of ISO performance, I have zero interest. But if 70D has same exact sensor, but all 9 high-precision (at f/2.8) AF points, dedicated video mode switch, a few extra custom modes, MFA, clean HDMI 1080p out and focus peak, I will be VERY, VERY tempted.
 
DSHAPK said:
DSHAPK wrote:
DSHAPK said:
DSHAPK said:
DSHAPK said:
DSHAPK said:
Like you, I'm not trying to be rude, but really trying to understand why my t4i is now a piece of garbage Because DXO rated a camera more highly than mine.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I don't know anyone who would call the T4i a piece of garbage. Unfortunately the sensor is now about 4 years old and still being used on the newest T5i.

Canon really started out with a head start building great introductory DSLR cameras but they seem to be having a real issue with improving the sensor. Personally I am hungry for an upgrade from the basic Rebel. I want more pixels so I can print larger. I want less noise and a better dynamic range. And I want more accurate focusing especially in low light and for closeup photography. My T3i does really badly with both of these conditions. I would also like a camera with better weather sealing and a more durable shutter. I literally burnt out the shutter on my XSi. I have spent months travelling in the national parks and, even with conservative use, my shutter count can get large in a few months. It is not that the older cameras are garbage but we should be able to see some IQ improvements after many years.
 
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:
jrkliny said:
Midwest wrote:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
.............
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
My interest is photography, not wringing my hands in despair that another camera's sensor might be better at the moment.

--
Click to expand...
It seems that this is a forum to discuss Canon Rebel cameras. To my way of thinking, the sensor is the heart of the camera and the the camera's image quality. If your interest is "photography" and not gear, I can recommend some other forums. Some are on DPR; others are elsewhere. I am not trying to be rude, but I am serious. If you are looking for more suitable forums, send me a private message and I can recommend a few. Actually, I don't participate here very often, but I am considering my next camera and printer acquisitons and DPR is the best for that type of discussion.
Click to expand...
I discuss cameras here frequently. Okay, Nikon may have a new and slightly better sensor. What am I supposed to do? Sell my camera and lenses, buy a Nikon and lenses, hoping I don't get a camera that has oil or dust on its improved sensor, and at least temporarily have a better sensor?

I print up to 13x19 and at that size I am not likely to see any difference. Should I toss all my stuff and switch brands to temporarily have a better sensor that will make no discernible difference in my prints?

Suppose Nikon has a better sensor at present. A sensor may be the 'heart' of the camera but it is not the only thing that matters. I have enough things worth worrying about in my life without making a series of grave posts about a camera with which I am still entirely satisfied. Would I like to see a new Canon sensor? Sure. Do I expect they will eventually release one? I am certain they will.

Is the camera I have now doing a great job for me so that I'm not worried about its sensor? YES.

I'll be glad to talk about equipment, but not to cry about it.
 
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:
jrkliny said:
DSHAPK wrote:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
Like you, I'm not trying to be rude, but really trying to understand why my t4i is now a piece of garbage Because DXO rated a camera more highly than mine.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I don't know anyone who would call the T4i a piece of garbage. Unfortunately the sensor is now about 4 years old . . .
Click to expand...
NOT
 
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:
jrkliny said:
DSHAPK wrote:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
jrkliny said:
Like you, I'm not trying to be rude, but really trying to understand why my t4i is now a piece of garbage Because DXO rated a camera more highly than mine.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I don't know anyone who would call the T4i a piece of garbage. Unfortunately the sensor is now about 4 years old and still being used on the newest T5i.

Canon really started out with a head start building great introductory DSLR cameras but they seem to be having a real issue with improving the sensor. Personally I am hungry for an upgrade from the basic Rebel. I want more pixels so I can print larger. I want less noise and a better dynamic range. And I want more accurate focusing especially in low light and for closeup photography. My T3i does really badly with both of these conditions.
Click to expand...
I'd love to see some of your photos, to get an idea of how the T3i is failing you so I can say 'yes, I see why you want (this or that).' I'm not saying you don't have any, I'm just saying it would be helpful to see them.
jrkliny said:
I would also like a camera with better weather sealing and a more durable shutter. I literally burnt out the shutter on my XSi.
Click to expand...
Canon does make more expensive models which have those things. You're not likely to get weather sealing or a more durable shutter in any Rebels coming down the road, nor do I expect Nikon's lower level models have those either, despite their sensor.
jrkliny said:
I have spent months travelling in the national parks and, even with conservative use, my shutter count can get large in a few months. It is not that the older cameras are garbage but we should be able to see some IQ improvements after many years.
Click to expand...
I don't discount that we all like to see improvements. I'm not dissatisfied at this point and am happy to stand with what I have. If it's time for you to change brands, then I say do what will work for your photography. I have no vested interest in any brand of camera, my interest is in the results. Of course I can't jump from brand to brand, that costs money, but down the road if I become unhappy with Canon, I would very likely make a change. This might be the right time for you to do so; only you know if Canon is holding you back.
 
Midwest, several times you have challenged me and other to post images which show the limitations of our current cameras. This makes no sense to me since I would only be able to post what worked, not what did not work. Anyway I rarely post on DPR but have a few old images still in the files. I post on a different forum but it would be inappropriate and against the forum rules for me to link to those images. I don't have a personal webpage so I can, again, only say that you can see the kinds of images I shoot by looking at my blurb.com books. All the pages are available for preview. Both books can be found by searching the bookstore for "special places". One book is subtitled landscapes and the other is subtitled flowers.

What are my current camera limitations? First I want to print larger and would like to see better resolution; i.e., more pixels.

My T3i and former XSi are also limited due to noise. This is a real issue with landscapes. Even when the entire dynamic range can be captured on a single image, shadow details often need to be enhanced. I use photoshop to pull out details and noise is instantly a problem. Of course, I can deal with the noise but then I again lose details. Often the entire dynamic range cannot be captured. That means I need to use exposure bracketing and then spend time with blending or hdr processing. Bottomline, less noise and a greater dynamic range would be a huge improvement. I know Nikon does not offer this either, but at least they seem to be moving in the right direction with some minimal improvement.

Beyond sensor performance, my photography is also limited due to AF performance. Often for landscapes I am on a tripod and using manual focus. As one of my blurb books shows, I also do lots of flower macros outdoors. Often it is not possible to setup a tripod and movement due to wind is a big problem. The problem is solved when AF works, but when it does not work I struggle to get the shot. Typically AF does not work with my macro lens as I approach 1:1. My T3i actually seems worse than the XSi but neither worked well.

I also shoot lots since I am a fulltime RV traveler. I would like a camera that would hold up to more use and has a longer shutter life and at least some minimal weather sealing. I realize I would need to upgrade to the XXD level for this. The upgrade does not seem worth it without at least some IQ improvement. I am seriously hoping for a decent 70D.

There are plenty of additional, altho minor, limitations. Auto exposure bracketing is minimal on my Rebel. I would like to be able to capture more than 3 brackets and go beyond +/- 2 ev. More than 3 images helps to achieve a more natural hdr look. I believe some Nikons use up to 9 exposures. I would be happy with 5
 
jrkliny said:
jrkliny wrote:

Midwest, several times you have challenged me and other to post images which show the limitations of our current cameras. This makes no sense to me since I would only be able to post what worked, not what did not work.
Click to expand...
This makes no sense to me: why can't you post a shot that "fails" due to a perceived sensor limitation? If we go by the numbers, you could post:
  • A shot where you simulate 24MP by optical zooming or moving closer. The linear ratio of resolution is roughly 5/6, i.e. ab object that is ~518 pixels wide with a Rebel would be then be 600 pixels wide. There would need to be some detail in the 600 pixel rendition that was not in the 500 pixel version. It might take a few shots slightly incrementing the zoom to get one the right size.
  • A shot at base ISO where the shadows needed to be pushed an extra couple of stops.
jrkliny said:
Anyway I rarely post on DPR but have a few old images still in the files.
Click to expand...
You can now upload images directly to the forums. Crops/resizes less than 800px wide are fine for this purpose.
jrkliny said:
I use photoshop to pull out details and noise is instantly a problem. Of course, I can deal with the noise but then I again lose details. Often the entire dynamic range cannot be captured.
Click to expand...
So you do have samples: simply post before/after noise reduction crops of the shadows and a reduced size overview to see what tonal range you are using for the entire image.
jrkliny said:
Bottomline, less noise and a greater dynamic range would be a huge improvement.
Click to expand...
The bottom line is to visually quantify "huge". If you cannot map the changes into real world results, then you will be disappointed by any upgrade.
jrkliny said:
Typically AF does not work with my macro lens as I approach 1:1.
Click to expand...
Handheld AF at 1:1 is tough for any camera - you not only have not only the wind, but fore/aft movement of the camera. It's easier to fix the magnification ratio using manual focus and then move yourself fore/aft until you get focus confirm.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

P
Upgrading from Canon 650D (Rebel T4i) to ...?
Replies
6
Views
305
PencilPanda
P
R
Canon EOS M6 II Analysis
5 6 7
Replies
127
Views
2K
R2D2
R2D2
R
EOS RP Q&A: My take on the questions and answers
Replies
7
Views
512
RLight
R
Fotap
  • For sale For sale
Canon EOS 650D ( Kiss X6i / Rebel T4i ) body only, PAL\NTSC, exc++, sht: 1165
Replies
0
Views
1
Fotap
Fotap
K
Beginner looking for the best camera around 600€ : Canon EOS 700D vs 750D vs Nikon D5300
2 3
Replies
42
Views
43
Kalopsiaaa
K

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top