Upgrade 60D > 6D: Right Now or Rather Later??

DVT80111 wrote:

Dream comes every 2 years. Buy now does not mean you will stop dreaming when next model come out.

Your dream only ends when you die, and you are not dying anytime next 6 months or a year. But for any reason you do, you wouldn't have time to think about camera.
"Yeah, I'm a great quitter. It's one of the few things I do well. I come from a long line of quitters. My father was a quitter, my grandfather was a quitter... I was raised to give up."

George Costanza (Seinfeld, "The Old Man")

 
BigBen08 wrote:
db. wrote:
Press Correspondent wrote:

You need to move fast. Judging by your avatar, "later" may just be too late. Seriously, man, do you think you gonna live firever? Say thanks to God that your dream camera is here while you still remember your name. Taking time to make a decision has long passed. Jump in to never look back and enjoy your dream while you still can!
db, I've got underwear older than you.
No, you just can't remember how long ago you got it.
 
db. wrote:

If that is the alternative,

I shall buy the 6D. Because

I don't like caviar at all! :-)

Or could we have a nice

steak together?
 
Is it just me that's seeing this, but why do all your forum posts appear as a narrow column with double line spacing on the left of the text window ?

I have to continually scroll down your post in order to read it, which is quite annoying.

Are you posting from some tablet or mobile device? in which case there would appear to be something wrong with the way it formats text.
 
No, MisterBG, I write on an ordinary laptop,

not on a tablet. I do adhere to narrow lines,

because according to the «reading ergonom-

ics gurus» they make for an *easier reading*

(I wrote for decades for a newspaper, where

we used to learn things like that :-)). The

new forum software here, OTOH, displays

every line feed as "double line spacing" (as

you call it) which I am unable to avoid. I

appreciate your pointing your «unease»

with my way of formatting out to me: I

might have to write off my writing hab-

it
—pun intended—for the dpr-foums...

--
db.
MisterBG wrote:

Is it just me that's seeing this, but why do all your forum posts appear as a narrow column with double line spacing on the left of the text window ?

I have to continually scroll down your post in order to read it, which is quite annoying.

Are you posting from some tablet or mobile device? in which case there would appear to be something wrong with the way it formats text.

--
>The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
 
Last edited:
MisterBG wrote:

Is it just me that's seeing this, but why do all your forum posts appear as a narrow column with double line spacing on the left of the text window ?

I have to continually scroll down your post in order to read it, which is quite annoying.
I agree with MisterBG.
 
db. wrote:

No, MisterBG, I write on an ordinary laptop,

not on a tablet. I do adhere to narrow lines,

because according to the «reading ergonom-

ics gurus» they make for an *easier reading*

(I wrote for decades for a newspaper, where

we used to learn things like that :-)). The

new forum software here, OTOH, displays

every line feed as "double line spacing" (as

you call it) which I am unable to avoid. I

appreciate your pointing your «unease»

with my way of formatting out to me: I

might have to write off my writing hab-

it
—pun intended—for the dpr-foums...
 
Last edited:
db.: Have you made a "pro's & con's" list on 6D vs 60D vs your needs vs costs? Might be a good start. Even though the 6D is better, it might not fit you and your kind of photography any better than the 60D.

Pär
 
You share a number of interesting points to think about on upgrading to the latest and greatest. Thank you
 
db. wrote:
And I probably will be able to live without a swivel screen




It does have remote liveview using wifi and a phone, so for very low or high-angle architecture shots it might be more useful especially if you use a tripod.




3) Therefore, I would have to buy a full set of new lenses,




There's the new Tamron 24-70 and the Canon 24-70 F4 and good
inexpensive primes and also legacy manual primes.





the im-provement of of image-quality at base ISO may not be as big over all? Or is it??




The 6D's high iso would allow more night photography.
Compare pictures from people with a similar skill level to
see the difference at iso 100. Once you have FF you'll
probably not need to think about upgrading for a long while.

The next big thing will probably be a stop or two more DR,
if that's worth waiting for. The longer you wait the less your
current gear will be worth.

Since your changing lenses there's the Nikon D600.

I like the FF smoothness I see especially on skies but if your
not going to use iso6400 then the difference is more subtle.









--
In the beginning was the rhythm but I had forgotten and was waiting for the beat.
 
From my perspective, I would encourage you to adopt a long range plan for where you would like to be given your current and future financial situation.

By that I mean, if you have the funds now for a FF but will be struggling for the next year(s) to buy lenses that will bring out the best in your new camera, it seems like it would be better to invest in a few good L lenses now that will alway be useful with any camera in the future.

Perhaps be realistic as to what your budget for camera equipment will be for the next few years. Then map out your plan and start working at making it a goal.

If you have a consistent ability to save or earn money, maybe hold off a few months and wait for a 7D MKII when it comes out. You should be able to use your existing lenses for it. Sell your 60D once you have the 7D and buy one or more L lenses. Keep saving and eventually sell your 10-22 and 17-55 and 7D MKII when you want to go FF.

You won't quite have the instant gratification that seems so important to everyone now, but it would allow you incremental improvements with long term progress as opposed to buying a 6D now and not having the lenses to use with it.

I know it's hard to be patient, but there are some long term benefits. I know most people will reject this approach and that's fine, but someone, like me, needs to say it, and this has been the approach I've used.
 
DB I started with the FF 5D2 and then picked up the 7D and 60D as backups. I've only bought EF lenses since I'm waiting for a better than 5D3 body to retire my 5D2 to backup duty.

Firstly the difference between CanonAPS-C sensors and FF is tremendous when pushing past 800 ISO. This is really where the low noise high light gathering FF sensor runs circles around the crops. However in bright light the advantagr is small and crop also provides more reach for long lenses. I really appreciate the 60D swivelscreen and hope the next prosumer FF will have this. So I agree with the other poster who wrote invest in an EF lens or two until you can afford the body and full range of FF lenses you may need. You might even consider a new or slightly used 5D2 since the IQ is nearly equiv to the 6D and the price is approx 2/3rds. Plus it's a magnesium weather sealed body with shutter life < 150K.
 
If you're upgrading for better image quality a lone I would not upgrade to Full Frame.

You will be hard pressed to tell the difference between a Full Frame photo and Crop Factor photo even while pixel peeping and especially at small to medium sized prints a long with viewing on the internet.

Full Frame is going to be more useful for getting cleaner photos at higher iso but other than that the differences are going to be small.

You might ask me well how do I know that the differences are going to be small between crop and FF image quality wise?

Reason is that I was in the same boat as you and decided to get a 40D instead of a 5Dc as the differences in image quality at low isos are negligible as I pixel pepped photos from full frame and compared both formats myself through photo viewing and the difference from crop to FF is very minor (I couldn't tell a difference unless a shot was taken at a high iso)

The cons to going with FF is that you will be putting out more money for lenses.

I'd only go with FF if you have the money for the top 2 best zooms as well (Canon 24-70L 2.8 II and 70-200 2.8L II) otherwise it's going to be a waste in my opinion.

So with that said, since you photograph mainly architecture I'd just get a tripod and use long exposures at base iso and you won't be able to tell the difference.
 
Last edited:
Thanks a lot, MisterBG, for your
"Shift" and "Enter" hint; it does the
trick perfectly. So this is where I do
start improving my writing here in
the forum.

Maybe not only my formatting but
also *my* use of *your* language
irritates you, at least in your British
Gentleman's selfesteem? (something
I could perfectly understand). As a
"nonnative" English speaker/writer
I often invent vocabulary where I
ignore the «write» words... ;-)

--

db.





MisterBG wrote:
just press "Shift" and "Enter"
and the new line cont-
inu-
es on
the line
immediately below,
without generating the extra line space.
 
Yes, barba, I made such a list.
And I do know that my next
camera will be the 6D.

But thoughts like yours show
that there is no need to rush.
I'll wait until I'll have the op-
portunity to sell my 60D and
EF-S lenses for a good price
(hopefully before the 70D
will hit the shelfs...).

Posts like yours have helped
me to understand there is
no hurry. Thanks!
 
pgb wrote:
db. wrote:
And I probably will be able to live without a swivel screen

It does have remote liveview using wifi and a phone, so for very low or high-angle architecture shots it might be more useful especially if you use a tripod.





The remote live-view will be
very useful, indeed. But less
convenient than the "built-in"
solution of the articulated
screen.




Therefore, I would have to buy a full set of new lenses,

There's the new Tamron 24-70 and the Canon 24-70 F4 and good
inexpensive primes and also legacy manual primes.




I think of buying—once I'll own
the 6D—Canon's 24-70 f4 (I am
waiting for more reviews; Photo-
zone.de promises theirs for early
March) and the 70-200 f4L IS
(not really "inexpensive"!) be-
fore testing which primes will
suit my needs best. I do doubt,
for instance, which of the two
TS-E will serve me better.




the improvement of of image-quality at base ISO may not be as big over all? Or is it??

The 6D's high iso would allow more night photography.
Compare pictures from people with a similar skill level to
see the difference at iso 100. Once you have FF you'll
probably not need to think about upgrading for a long while.
The next big thing will probably be a stop or two more DR,
if that's worth waiting for. The longer you wait the less your
current gear will be worth.




You mention it yourself: the ad-
vance of DR will most probably
be the next temptation of up-
grading, not too far in the future.
I agree with you.




Since you're changing lenses there's the Nikon D600.




No, thank you: I've been loyal to
Canon for some fifteen years and
their gear has always served me
well so far (though I'm not a "fan-
boy" either ;-))




I like the FF smoothness I see especially on skies but if your
not going to use iso6400 then the difference is more subtle.




That's why I *shall* upgrade some-
when this year. But I understand
now that there is no real need to
rush *right now*.
--

db.
 
John Vant Land wrote:

From my perspective, I would encourage you to adopt a long range plan for where you would like to be given your current and future financial situation.

By that I mean, if you have the funds now for a FF but will be struggling for the next year(s) to buy lenses that will bring out the best in your new camera, it seems like it would be better to invest in a few good L lenses now that will alway be useful with any camera in the future.

Perhaps be realistic as to what your budget for camera equipment will be for the next few years. Then map out your plan and start working at making it a goal.

If you have a consistent ability to save or earn money, maybe hold off a few months and wait for a 7D MKII when it comes out. You should be able to use your existing lenses for it. Sell your 60D once you have the 7D and buy one or more L lenses. Keep saving and eventually sell your 10-22 and 17-55 and 7D MKII when you want to go FF.

You won't quite have the instant gratification that seems so important to everyone now, but it would allow you incremental improvements with long term progress as opposed to buying a 6D now and not having the lenses to use with it.

I know it's hard to be patient, but there are some long term benefits. I know most people will reject this approach and that's fine, but someone, like me, needs to say it, and this has been the approach I've used.
Thank you, John. Your post
makes for interesting read-
ing. Just one remark on the
7D as an intermediate step:
while I think that FF would
improve my image-quality,
the 7D—sharing the same
sensor with the 60D—does
not improve IQ. Its real im-
provements—the sophisti-
cated AF-system or more
fps are of little interest for
my type of shooting (as I
said before).
 
Thank you Sovern, for
chiming in!
Sovern wrote:

since you photograph mainly architecture I'd just get a tripod and use long exposures at base iso and you won't be able to tell the difference.
Using a tripod and long
exposures is, anyway,
what I've done so far.
 
Thank you, wazu:

I do understand what you
say and agree with most of
it. The 5d2, though, is not
the solution for me, as it is
precisely the small form fac-
tor and the light weight of
the 6D that make me think
I might be ready for FF
now.



wazu wrote:

DB I started with the FF 5D2 and then picked up the 7D and 60D as backups. I've only bought EF lenses since I'm waiting for a better than 5D3 body to retire my 5D2 to backup duty.

Firstly the difference between CanonAPS-C sensors and FF is tremendous when pushing past 800 ISO. This is really where the low noise high light gathering FF sensor runs circles around the crops. However in bright light the advantagr is small and crop also provides more reach for long lenses. I really appreciate the 60D swivelscreen and hope the next prosumer FF will have this. So I agree with the other poster who wrote invest in an EF lens or two until you can afford the body and full range of FF lenses you may need. You might even consider a new or slightly used 5D2 since the IQ is nearly equiv to the 6D and the price is approx 2/3rds. Plus it's a magnesium weather sealed body with shutter life < 150K.
 

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