I got a LOL out of Billx08's comment but the one about street shooting also got a LOL. Street shooting for so many is taking b/w photos of stranger's backsides as they walk away.
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The point where lines intersect!
- Thread starter jcmarfilph
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Billx08
Forum Pro
I already did. DPR is investing a huge amount of money in its connect.dpreview.com, because the market is huge. Sales of camera phones and tablets with built-in cameras will continue to increase, at the same time that we're seeing signs that the sales of cameras will be declining. When tens or hundreds of millions of people that carry their cell phones with them 24x7, most of them won't consider buying a camera when their phones already have the ability to take decent pictures. These phone cameras are already much more capable than the ones available a year or two ago, and they'll continue to improve. Maybe not to the point that they'd satisfy you or me, but we represent a small fraction of the overall camera market, and that fraction will shrink with time.
evoprox
Senior Member
Thanks Bill, got your point. We discussed the decline of compact cameras a while ago. I'm somehow glad though that the cameras in my smartphone and tablet (HTC HD1 & Motorola Xoom) are anything but useable, but then I'm just another spoiled old geezer
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
Billx08
Forum Pro
You don't seem to be able to keep your stories straight. Now you've suddenly switched to comparing a P&S with a large lens to the pocket cameras that have no lenses to hold. Every time you've tried to make your point about the so called superiority of manual zoom lens bridge cameras, it's been when we've been comparing them to the similar bridge cameras that use motorized lenses, like Panasonic's FZ models and Nikon's P5xx models. Only someone completely ignorant about photography wouldn't support any of these cameras by placing a hand under the lens. In fact, several of these motorized zoom cameras (which you love to ridicule as "toyzoom" cameras) have zoom rocker switches on the lens barrel. Doesn't that suggest that the lens will be used to support the camera? For most people, yes. For you, probably not. Yes, you can provide better hand holding support for the HS30 compared with an F800EXR, but it's equally true that you can better hand held support for the P510 than the F800EXR, and the P510 has stabilization that easily matches (if not improves on) the stabilization of Fuji's HS10, HS20 and HS30 models.
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Why is this even worth considering? Judging by the many FTF posts concerning shooting movies, your 90% wild guess is probably way off the mark, and whatever the figure really is, the number of Fuji owners that shoot videos would probably be much higher if Fuji's cameras weren't so poor at shooting videos. For my own wild-ass guess, I'd say that of the number of purchasers that considered and then chose Panasonic or Sony cameras over Fuji cameras, 90% of them based their decisions on Fuji's terrible video capabilities and never gave a thought to your "toyzoom" point.
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Again, a silly argument. That's equivalent to saying that police going into a building after an armed perp. do so with their guns in their holsters. Whether close or far, most birds don't take off 2 seconds after you see them unless you have no skill tracking them and scare them off. The small birds that you tend to shoot don't behave any differently than the ones that I shoot, and they usually stick around, providing dozens of shooting opportunities, and if they do fly off, it's usually to settle on another nearby branch. You again try to twist an infrequent occurrence into something that you fantasize happens all the time. It doesn't work that way on my planet. Where do you live?
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So photographers that agree with you are serious and the ones that don't are stupid? I guess that you don't know how such opinions make you sound.
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I'm trying to fight the urge to call this a stupid statement, but surely you must know that connect.dpreview.com is a link to a valid website, and connect.apple.dpreview does not exist, other than as something that you think makes for some kind of 'witty' rejoinder. Uh, no. If anything, as an attempted insult it shows only a lack of wit. Why can't you ever engage in serious conversations, instead of playing these juvenile verbal games?
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
I'd like to see phone with real camera like Galaxy Camera with optical zoom not just wannabe iPhones with fancy plastic filters, adapters (for SLR lenses and telescopes) and coupled with mediocre sensor. Until then, I will LOL at those saying my phone can do serious photography now.
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
What I am saying is, you don't need to worry about the droops and the creeps on camera with manual zoom because your left or other hand is supporting the lens barrel.
If you don't zoom a lot, Fuji video is fine and that means usable. If you want professional quality videos then forget about video functionality from any superzoom, toyzoom or not.
Hand guns don't have zoom. Birds in my place, don't stay longer (shorter than the time it takes for motorized superzoom to fully extend its zoom) unless you bribe them or they are in the happy place like Kenn's backyard.
On the context of iPhones for serious photography, YES.
Look at those daily (sometimes non-sense) apple-related / instagram articles. Makes you think you are browsing connect.apple.dpreview.com or connect.instagram.dpreview.com.
-=[ Joms ]=-
Billx08
Forum Pro
You do seem to be thoroughly invested in making silly straw man arguments. I don't recall seeing anyone that has claimed here that phone cameras can do serious photography, but I will say that in the hands of serious, talented photographers, serious photographs can easily be produced. There have been books published, filled with photos made with phone cameras, some even filled with photos shot using Lensbaby lenses. Most of the photos in those books compare very favorably with many of the photos posted in this forum using real cameras, even the ones shot using your HS30EXR. Serious photography is more about the photographer's imagination and how composition is used. The hardware used is of much less importance, except for camera chauvinists.
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
Hint: Initial is DPR.
iPad is also a must for serious photography.
Hint: Initial is DPR.
It's all about audience and followers, I was once of the top Explorers in Flickr until they change the algorithm.
In the world where viewing screen is 7 inches or less, output of any camera will look fine.
Billx08
Forum Pro
You'll have to translate this into English for me. I have no idea what you're talking about. I did a google search for "Flickr Explorer" and found a reference to a Microsoft search app. and another reference to "A Flickr API based free web tool that lets you explore any days best photos". Are you saying that you once spent most of your time searching for good photos on Flickr, or that you often had your photos selected by this web tool until they improved the algorithm?
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In a world where camera LCDs are much smaller than 7 inches, all cameras produce very good photos. But some are much more equal than others (to use a 1984 reference) when the photos are transferred to computers, and that goes for camera photos, mobile phone photos, and tablet photos. Try as you might, the points you're making, if translated into a photo, would be outclassed by photos shot using a 1mp camera phone with a greasy fingerprint on its lens.
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
So much flexibility and potential if you shoot RAW Max, Thanks for your comment!
-=[ Joms ]=-
jcmarfilph
Veteran Member
100+ comments, 25+ faves will take your photo to Top 500 daily. Some of my photos from HS10 are still there. If you are popular, people will like your photo regardless if it is horrible.
You can only do that much in mobile photography such as self-portrait, mug-shot, blurry action shots, smeary landscape, horrible highlights and shadows hidden on those fancy Insta-filters. If you are serious in photography, invest in a real camera.
-=[ Joms ]=-
Yes, who wants a photo that's not crooked.
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Billx08
Forum Pro
Ah, thanks for the explanation. So in a way, DPR is becoming more like Flickr, but no more thumbs-down, even for horrible photos, only thumbs-up may now be awarded, and a lot of boring (some may call them horrible) photos continue to be praised every day. Way to go forum photo fanboys. Attaboy!
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I won't disagree with this. In fact, I'll explicitly agree with it. Nevertheless, some mobile phones have cameras that are able to produce better photos that many of the photos posted here that were shot using "real" cameras. And those mobile phone cameras will continue to improve at a faster rate than P&S cameras are improving.
Billx08
Forum Pro
Kim Letkeman
Forum Pro
Wow ... the moderator tools are way cool ... that post is edited in situ! Wicked ...
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