ultimatum

Well, you can't argue with somebody's experience. But you can point out that one cannot reach valid generalizations from one data point.

One or the other of these two companies may, in fact, have better weather-resistance, but I don't think anybody knows which one it is. Figuring it out to any degree of scientific certainty would be an enormously complex project that no one to my knowledge has ever attempted. Certainly not Nikon or Canon.

And the anecdotes cut both ways. For years, John Iacono, one of Sports Illustrated's top photographers -- and, I should say, a good friend of Nikon -- would regale people with the tale of the time he was standing next to a Canon EOS shooter on the rainy sideline of a pro sports event (I forget which one now) and the guy's camera started billowing smoke. Water had leaked into it, it shorted out and caught fire.

But at the very same event where I heard that story (the 1992 U.S. Open golf tournament at Pebble Beach) I heard a UPI photographer named Terry Schmidt tell the story of the time he was shooting Tom Watson at a previous U.S. Open. Watson supposedly hated photographers and their noisy cameras. In the middle of Watson's backswing, Schmidt's F2 motor drive shorted out (a known problem in the rain with F2 motors, according to Schmidt) and the camera started firing at full speed. Watson shanked his drive and spun around with hate filled eyes, so Schmidt dropped the camera on the ground and backed away with hands held high to show it wasn't his doing. The camera clattered away on the ground until it ripped the film out of its cartridge. (Terry Schmidt, by the way, is still the archetype of a wire service shooter in my mind: Unkempt mustache, fixer-stained t-shirt, cameras worn to the brass, a slight tilt to the left from carrying a 400/2.8 over his left shoulder at a thousand sporting events, too intimate a knowledge of drinking holes near stadiums, a keen mind, a wonderfully wry sense of humor, and 10 lifetimes worth of great stories.)

Anyway, those stories are old, but I can assure you that Canon and Nikon were both boasting about their ruggedness and weather resistance in those days, too. Everybody's got good stories and bad ones.
I was shooting inside a cavern, crawling about on my stomache. I
had a 50mm lens attached to my D1H. Since the 50mm lens didn't
have the rubber gasket on the bayonet, somehow a little bit of
moisture got it and a drip of water was inside the camera and even
fogged up the mirror.

I have a feeling this wouldn't have happned if I had a rubber
gasket on the bayonet.

I was shooting wildlife with my 70-200mm (which has a rubber gasket
on the bayonet) and I never had this problem - and it was pouring
rain and my gear was completely soaked.
 
This was more of a personal ultimatum to myself - not to Nikon or this forum -- just thought I would express my concerns and my thoughts.

Glad to see fellow Nikonians understand.
I WILL wait until the D2X and D2H (or whatever is next after the
D1X) have been announced, and if they are not on par with the 1Ds
-- full frame is a must, or Nikon has commited suicide on its
entire line of lenses -- I'm prepared to sell my gear, and take the
loss and invest into a system that already has what I want.
 
I don't want to do FOV conversations -- I want a camera and a lens
to be just that, not a mathematical equation. The math isn't hard,
but it's distracting to the moment, especially going between my F5
and my D1X. It's just absurd.
Photography ALWAYS had a lot to do with mathematical equations, most much complicated than the 1.5 factor (I'm not talking about point and shoot of course). That cannot be a valid argument.

Gerald

BTW I'm glad to join the community of Nikon DSLR DPreview.
Happy owner of a new D100.
 
Why mess with a good thing?

I can calculate light ratios fine - but don't go messing with my lenses, angles and everything else - throws everything off from there. Rocks the foundation.
I don't want to do FOV conversations -- I want a camera and a lens
to be just that, not a mathematical equation. The math isn't hard,
but it's distracting to the moment, especially going between my F5
and my D1X. It's just absurd.
Photography ALWAYS had a lot to do with mathematical equations,
most much complicated than the 1.5 factor (I'm not talking about
point and shoot of course). That cannot be a valid argument.

Gerald

BTW I'm glad to join the community of Nikon DSLR DPreview.
Happy owner of a new D100.
 
How does the D100 viewfinder compare to that of the F5?
That's why I compared it against the viewfinder it was derived from, the N80's. Comparing an N80 viewfinder against an F5 viewfinder wouldn't be a fair comparison, so comparing a D100 against it wouldn't be either. There are actually a lot of issues going on here: the N80 viewfinder uses an LCD overlay that's not present in the F5 viewfinder, for example. You're also comparing a 100% viewfinder against a 94% viewfinder (or is it 92%? I can never remember without looking it up; ack! it's 92%).
11mp is not uniform. Youll get a lot better image off a 11mp MF
digital back than a DSLR and more off the DSLR than a p&s.
Megapixels are only one part of the equation, the other is the
actual physical size of the sensor.
His point was about resolution, thus my reply. However, I'll note in passing that the D1x's photosites are half the area of the D100's and provide almost exactly the same noise profile, at least on my cameras. And I've yet to see anything that indicates that a photosite beyond 7 microns square has any benefits in noise reduction or photon collection. From what I can tell, there seems to be a "sweet spot" in the 5-7 micron range. Much smaller photosites certainly do have noise and collection issues (which are usually corrected in software), while larger photosites tend to have trouble with migration (noise) and would require much deeper ADC bit rates to distinguish any differences at the bright end.

I'll repeat something I said at least twelve months ago: when we hit something between 14 and 20mp with current technologies, we've topped out (both in terms of optimal image quality/resolving power with current lenses as well as in data handling issues [16 bit x 3 channels x 20 mp / 8 bits a byte = 120MB images, which is not only a space issue, but a processing issue both in camera and off]).

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
 
Why mess with a good thing?
I can calculate light ratios fine - but don't go messing with my
lenses, angles and everything else - throws everything off from
there. Rocks the foundation.
Nobody messes with your lenses, angles or anything. The foundation, as we all know, still works as expected - solid as a rock. A 90mm lens is a wide angle on my 4x5, a normal lens on my 6x7, a mild telephoto on my Leica, a medium telephoto on my digital camera.

The good thing is that Nikon has not changed anything.

tony
 
I was shooting inside a cavern, crawling about on my stomache. I
had a 50mm lens attached to my D1H. Since the 50mm lens didn't
have the rubber gasket on the bayonet, somehow a little bit of
moisture got it and a drip of water was inside the camera and even
fogged up the mirror.
Fogging would indicate condensation, not transmission of water.
I have a feeling this wouldn't have happned if I had a rubber
gasket on the bayonet.
Since you indicate "fogging," I have more than a feeling that it would have happened even with a rubber gasket sealed with Silly Putty.
I was shooting wildlife with my 70-200mm (which has a rubber gasket
on the bayonet) and I never had this problem - and it was pouring
rain and my gear was completely soaked.
Again, there's a difference between transmission and condensation. And we can trade anecdotes all day long, though I'm not sure it proves anything: at one Yosemite workshop where it rained torrentially for three straight days a Canon shooter kept having his camera die. He'd take it inside for a few hours, remove the batteries, and it would resurrect. He claimed it had "always been that way in wet weather." Meanwhile, I shot continuously with a D1x the entire time (and changed lenses in the rain) never missing a beat. But what does that prove? Nothing.

As others have noted, Nikon's do pretty well in tough environments, and plenty of us have been shooting with them for years in terrible places and in terrible weather without any real issues. I seriously doubt there is any real tangible difference between, say, a Canon 1Ds and a Nikon D1x in virtually any environment we care to test in. While both companies make claims about "weatherproofing," I note that neither has offered to let an independent source conduct worst case scenario testing to back those claims up.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
 
Why mess with a good thing?

I can calculate light ratios fine - but don't go messing with my
lenses, angles and everything else - throws everything off from
there. Rocks the foundation.
.............. know what, I set the 1D to 100ISO, set my flash meter to 100ISO, selected an aperture and what happened next?

The capture agreed with the meter reading.

Have really no idea if it’s the camera’s settings or if the x factor has anything to do with it but heretofore other digital cameras never agreed with their respective captures against my flash metre in the studio.
 
While both companies make claims about "weatherproofing," I
note that neither has offered to let an independent source conduct
worst case scenario testing to back those claims up.
....................... would that count? ....................... ;^)
 
This was more of a personal ultimatum to myself - not to Nikon or
this forum -- just thought I would express my concerns and my
thoughts.

Glad to see fellow Nikonians understand.
The way I see it is that you've already made up your mind that you want to switch. But that's going to come at a tangible cost to you (loss in sale of Nikon components already owned, high cost of Canon 1Ds body, perhaps even another steep learning curve to master a new tool). Thus, you're trying to come up with a rationale that's triggered by an external factor--in this case Nikon's continued decision to stick with 1.5x--to justify the tough decision you're making. If it makes it easier for you to make the switch by doing that, fine.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
 
....still waiting on your 1D impressions/experience report! :)

(I know, I know you just got it...hehehe)
Why mess with a good thing?

I can calculate light ratios fine - but don't go messing with my
lenses, angles and everything else - throws everything off from
there. Rocks the foundation.
.............. know what, I set the 1D to 100ISO, set my flash
meter to 100ISO, selected an aperture and what happened next?

The capture agreed with the meter reading.

Have really no idea if it’s the camera’s settings or if the x
factor has anything to do with it but heretofore other digital
cameras never agreed with their respective captures against my
flash metre in the studio.
 
I hope he'll have the good taste to offer it where it belongs, on the Canon forum, instead of more Ger Bee sand in the gears of the Nikon forum.

It would be interesting to see if anyone over there would give a hoot, as its a very late review of a camera about to be eclipsed by new models from not only Nikon but potentially Canon itself.
(I know, I know you just got it...hehehe)
Why mess with a good thing?

I can calculate light ratios fine - but don't go messing with my
lenses, angles and everything else - throws everything off from
there. Rocks the foundation.
.............. know what, I set the 1D to 100ISO, set my flash
meter to 100ISO, selected an aperture and what happened next?

The capture agreed with the meter reading.

Have really no idea if it’s the camera’s settings or if the x
factor has anything to do with it but heretofore other digital
cameras never agreed with their respective captures against my
flash metre in the studio.
 
I was shooting inside a cavern, crawling about on my stomache. I
had a 50mm lens attached to my D1H. Since the 50mm lens didn't
have the rubber gasket on the bayonet, somehow a little bit of
moisture got it and a drip of water was inside the camera and even
fogged up the mirror.

I have a feeling this wouldn't have happned if I had a rubber
gasket on the bayonet.
First, I agree with Thom Hogan this may have been condensation.

But even if it is a case of water getting through the lens, you're wrong to think a bayonet gasket would have stopped it. Look closely at that 50 mm lens. There are 2 seams on it that are wide open, with no seals--one on either side of the focusing ring. Zooms are twice as bad, since they have two rings (with open seams on either side). Water is more likely to get in there than the bayonet in the first place, since the bayonet interface is precisely machined and already under considerable pressure.

Modern AF lenses are in some ways worse than older manual focus lenses at handling moisture. First, AF lenses generally use cams with dry lube, to reduce the friction the AF motor has to work against. In comparison, older lenses used helicoids with thick grease--much better at keeping out water. Second, modern lenses have powered electronics that can short out (and maybe short the camera as well) if they get wet. Older lenses, without electronics, can be thoroughly soaked without risk of shorting the camera.

So did the camera short out in the cavern, or did it keep working?
 
For me, a D100 and F5 user, is FF really necessary?

I find many Nikonians craving for FF and envy Canonites. I only envy the resolution and not the FF. At present I cannot justify the extra cost for FF, and to be honest I am used to the 1.5x crop effect with no problems.

As an intermediate solution to extra resolution, I am actually looking forward the the release of Capture 4 which I gathered has interpolation and can boost the RAW resolution to around 10 Mega-Pixels. Something that I would really love to test.
 
.......... but one point was, what's the point, the camera is very well reviewed and it is a late model.

But I did make a few pages but upon rereading them it was just a bunch of Nikon bashing drivel, see I’m still too wound up to make a comparison without a compassioned swipe at Nikon.

So I decided I would not publish it.

But I am receiving emails from a few Nikon users asking for my opinion on the 1D, I’ll probably reply privately to them when I am ready.
I hope he'll have the good taste to offer it where it belongs, on
the Canon forum, instead of more Ger Bee sand in the gears of the
Nikon forum.
It would be interesting to see if anyone over there would give a
hoot, as its a very late review of a camera about to be eclipsed by
new models from not only Nikon but potentially Canon itself.

Mark Palumbo wrote:
 
I gave up on Nikon already. It's sad because I've been a Nikon person since I was 12, when my dad got me an FE2 (which I still have, btw).

Canon has come up with the 1Ds, which is far and ahead from anything any other manufacturer has come up with. Most Canon lenses don't have the indestructible feel my AI lenses have, but oh well... As for the 10D, I think it is better than the D100, but that could be argued...

I am pretty busy right now so I don't have time to do much photography, but I look forward to the Canon EOS 3D in September. We'll see.

Miguel
 
I'm sure many of you have been wondering if the grass is greener on
the otherside, despire a few technical setbacks with the latest 10D.

I've been wondering for the past year, and I've been waiting
patiently.

I've been evaluating the entire systems, including lenses, flashes
and bodies. Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages.

One thing that really bugs me is Nikon's lack of development in the
lens sector. Over the past 30 years Nikon has been lagging behind
every step of the way. Not because they're "slow and steady"
because we have all seen the scientific lens comparisons where
Canon lenses are always on top, except for a few occations.

The thing that really gets me is that Nikon has just released their
70-200mm AF-S VR, which is simply amazing in every aspect! But in
reality Canon has had this very lens for years, and others that
Nikon hasn't even produced yet.

What if you could have the following lenses?

300mm f4 VR
300mm f2.8 VR
400mm f4 VR
400mm f2.8 VR

or

200mm f1.8
35mm f1.4

Not to mention the tilt and shift lenses. I would love to have
those lenses on the Nikon system! But only Canon offers these.

Even if Nikon announced those 4 telephotos tomorrow, it would take
another year before they hit the market -- and of course you would
have to pay the Nikon premium for them - that being 10%~ more
expensive than its competition - and for what, the name? A lot of
the charts actually say Canon has a slight edge in its optics.

Then comes along the full frame, mega resolution 1Ds. It was
basiclly a red herring for Nikon users, but if you look more
closely it's everything I've always wanted.

It's the reason why I switched to digital.

I want a camera that works just like a film camera but it digital.
This is it, folks -- and it's the best IMHO that does this.

I have noticed that Nikon has put in the paperwork for trademarks
on the D2X and D2H. I'll gladly wait until I hear some more news,
but my ulimatum is this:

I WILL wait until the D2X and D2H (or whatever is next after the
D1X) have been announced, and if they are not on par with the 1Ds
-- full frame is a must, or Nikon has commited suicide on its
entire line of lenses -- I'm prepared to sell my gear, and take the
loss and invest into a system that already has what I want.

I also expect to see some new telephotos on the marke with VR and
perhaps even a TS -- but no one wants to wait a year before they're
released -- rush the product through the PR BS, kinda like the
12-24mm and get it out on the market in 6 months.

Many of you will say "great, be gone" or "good riddance" just like
you have with Gee Ber, but not because he switched, but mainly
because he was a jerk -- but nonetheless -- I feel that I'm being
fair in my decision -- I will wait for the new line of DSLRs from
Nikon before making my final decision.

After all, this isn't a marriage, it's just a tool -- nothing
personal -- just business.

It would be stupid for me to switch right now, especially when
Nikon has new DSLRs in the queue and will be announced anytime.
--
http://www.pbase.com/juuso
 

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