EOS3D confirmed for September

DavidP #28649 · May 4, 2003

Hmmm, and I didn't even hear that new. LOL.

So you don't really want full-frame, either?

I'm very happy with the 1.3x crop factor.

You know, the EOS-3D might be a tempting package if it's as I described above (9 megapixels, 1.3x crop factor). The main things I'd be missing are the 1/500 X-sync and the 8 fps. Both are things I could live without if I had to.

Still, I really like the 1D.

Bern Caughey said:
Just before the 10D was announced, Canon told APA the new 1D will
be FF. They also mentioned they would be releasing another camera a
level above the 10D that will be have a 1.3 FOV CMOS & both the
releases are due in the third quarter of 2003.

I bought my 1D just after hearing this news.

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

DavidP #28649 · May 4, 2003

What kills me right now on the 1D is the moire that I get sometimes on subjects like a MacKaw. Arrgh, I hate that.

Having a -1D and a -3D would be nice, I guess. But then we're back to the two different battery systems, and the two cameras handling differently. There's really something nice about having two identical bodies.

DavidP said:
Hmmm, and I didn't even hear that new. LOL.

So you don't really want full-frame, either?

I'm very happy with the 1.3x crop factor.

You know, the EOS-3D might be a tempting package if it's as I
described above (9 megapixels, 1.3x crop factor). The main things
I'd be missing are the 1/500 X-sync and the 8 fps. Both are
things I could live without if I had to.

Still, I really like the 1D.

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

Thomas Gardner · May 4, 2003

FrancisCF said:
Paul: 10D focusing issue is considered by Canon Japan to be a non
issue (I agree)

What does that means?

1. Only a small number of 10D has AF issue.
2. There is no such AF issue.
3. It can be fixed easily and so it's not an issue.
4. The 10D issue doesn't hurt Canon sales.

I'd be willing to bet a combination of 1,3 & 4 is a close semblence of the truth

Rune Moberg · May 4, 2003

DavidP said:
As for the 1D update, I suppose it's possible that'll be full-frame.

Perhaps the "3D" is the 1D update?

In any case, I'm still "stuck" with the D60. A month ago I had enough money to upgrade to the 1D, but instead got myself a new (albeit used ;-) ) lens. I know you keep telling us otherwise, but I'm wary of "downgrading" to fewer pixels. Yes, it's not all about the pixels, but in any case I'd just end up looking over my shoulder for the next big thing from Canon...

A 1D like model with the same pixel density as the D60 (and incidentally the 1Ds) would be nice even if it's not full frame. 1.3x crop factor would serve me plenty fine. In fact, it makes me drool.

¨

Same pixel density and 1.3x crop factor, have anyone done the maths on this? 9 megapixels? Let's hope the price of CF cards drops!

(Your comment re: EOS 3's AF performance was much appreciated btw)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

Thomas Gardner · May 4, 2003

Petteri Sulonen said:
Adam-T said:

and it's take them ages. look at all the wide angle primes still
with 5-blade diaphragms (including the 14L)

Click to expand...

Hm. What difference does a 5-blade make on a prime that wide? You
can't get any bokeh anyway, because of the DOF.

Sigma's 15-30mm has an eight blade design for the purpose of out of focus backgrounds. Go figure

nicholas wong · May 4, 2003

would they update their flash system? D-TTL maybe?

--
nws

Bern Caughey · May 4, 2003

I'd actually love a FF camera, but I mostly love the 1D.

My 1D complaints are the same as most people's. I almost never had moire with my D60 & I never once cleaned it's sensor, but as you know, the 1D's sharpness & all round responsiveness is far superior.

But how soon will any of these cameras be available. I wasn't willing to wait when the 1D is more than good enough for most publications & I'll always need a least one back-up camera. The 1Ds does not really interest me as much as the 1D's replacement due to it's buffer/write times. The ability of the 1D to sync at nearly any shutter speed (forget Canon's specs) was also important to me, since I use strobe packs outdoors often.

Canon never mentioned what type of sensor they will use in the 1D's replacement, but I hope it doesn't loose the high speed sync capabilities & sharpness.

Regards,
Bern Caughey

Rune Moberg · May 4, 2003

DavidP said:
Dangit -- I wasn't gonna buy anything this year. LOL.

Oh, lucky break! You'll be able to afford a EOS 3D or two then!

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

ignay · May 4, 2003

don't worry, you're not alone

D30 is awesome!

Kjeld Olesen said:
It has been hard to resist the 10D, but now I think that I will
manage, and stay with the D30 for just a little longer.

--
Kjeld Olesen
http://www.acapixus.dk

--
The legendary D30 + BG-ED3
Sigma 15-30, Canon 28-135, 70-200 f/4, TC 2X, EF25
SLIK 803CF, Velbon PH263
LowePro S&F Rover AW

Thomas Gardner · May 4, 2003

Adam-T said:
1.5Mp more than the 10D? no way - an extra 1 FPS? no way - 45 focus
points? maybe , maybe not, compared to a D60 then YES but the 10D
is no slouch in AF (when you get a good one) in the first place ..

It's got to be more than a measly 1.3X and the EOS3's CPU deficient
version of the 1V AF to tempt people -------- You can tell that I
REALLY want it to be full frame can't you ;-)

Canon has already given us a clue.

Canon has shown over the years to purposefully hobble the next model camera. They have shown they like to only take baby steps, when it comes to up grading a sensor body.

So based upon past Canon performace, they'll go with a 1.3X sensor and run the middle ground between the 10D and 1Ds on pixel count. As to focusing issues, it'll depend on how much improvement the marketing people decide to allow and not a drop more. The key word is allow as again, Canon likes to hobble their products so the consumer will have an "EXCUSE" to upgrade to their next year's model.

Soooooo, with the above in mind, I wouldn't expect more to come out of Canon in September then a 1.3X sensor with about a nine megapixel count and a seven point focus system that works. Maybe some fancy software upgrades but not much more. Oh! And I expect up all to be surprised by the price in the same way we were surprised by the price of the 10D.

That's my prognosticating two cents worth.

DavidP #28649 · May 4, 2003

The 1/500 X-sync is something we may not see again. I'm not sure if CMOS can be made to do that (but if anybody can do it, it's Canon).

Makes ya wonder how film shooters ever survived with the 1/250 X-sync of the 1v, doesn't it?

For shooting outside with fill-flash (at any distance longer than Hi-Speed Sync is good for), the 1D's 1/500 X-sync is just terrific.

Bern Caughey said:
I'd actually love a FF camera, but I mostly love the 1D.

My 1D complaints are the same as most people's. I almost never had
moire with my D60 & I never once cleaned it's sensor, but as you
know, the 1D's sharpness & all round responsiveness is far superior.

But how soon will any of these cameras be available. I wasn't
willing to wait when the 1D is more than good enough for most
publications & I'll always need a least one back-up camera. The 1Ds
does not really interest me as much as the 1D's replacement due to
it's buffer/write times. The ability of the 1D to sync at nearly
any shutter speed (forget Canon's specs) was also important to me,
since I use strobe packs outdoors often.

Canon never mentioned what type of sensor they will use in the 1D's
replacement, but I hope it doesn't loose the high speed sync
capabilities & sharpness.

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

DavidP #28649 · May 4, 2003

What's really odd (about me, anyway) is that I generally don't shoot fill-flash indoors. But outdoors I've been known to use it a lot.

DavidP said:
The 1/500 X-sync is something we may not see again. I'm not sure
if CMOS can be made to do that (but if anybody can do it, it's
Canon).

Makes ya wonder how film shooters ever survived with the 1/250
X-sync of the 1v, doesn't it?

For shooting outside with fill-flash (at any distance longer than
Hi-Speed Sync is good for), the 1D's 1/500 X-sync is just terrific.

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

DavidP #28649 · May 4, 2003

Well, by the end of June we should know who gets laid off and who stays.

And by Christmas, we should know how much we're getting for a bonus.

And I really AM being good. I just refinance my house (had almost 6 years left) on a 5/1 ARM at 2 points less interest. I'll pay it off in 5 years. The acceleration and lower interest will save me almost 5 grand. But during that first 5 years, it'll actually cost me 6 grand more than staying with my current loan.

Rune Moberg said:
DavidP said:

Dangit -- I wasn't gonna buy anything this year. LOL.

Click to expand...

Oh, lucky break! You'll be able to afford a EOS 3D or two then!

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

DavidP #28649 · May 4, 2003

I did the math in another post - yep, it'd be 9 megapixels.

Based on Paul's post, the -3D is NOT the 1D replacement.

And it would never make sense to have a non -1 series camera be the replacement for a 1D, anyway.

Not that some photographers might replace a 1D with a 3D, mind you.

Rune Moberg said:
DavidP said:

As for the 1D update, I suppose it's possible that'll be full-frame.

Click to expand...

Perhaps the "3D" is the 1D update?

In any case, I'm still "stuck" with the D60. A month ago I had
enough money to upgrade to the 1D, but instead got myself a new
(albeit used ;-) ) lens. I know you keep telling us otherwise, but
I'm wary of "downgrading" to fewer pixels. Yes, it's not all about
the pixels, but in any case I'd just end up looking over my
shoulder for the next big thing from Canon...

A 1D like model with the same pixel density as the D60 (and
incidentally the 1Ds) would be nice even if it's not full frame.
1.3x crop factor would serve me plenty fine. In fact, it makes me
drool. ¨

Same pixel density and 1.3x crop factor, have anyone done the maths
on this? 9 megapixels? Let's hope the price of CF cards drops!

(Your comment re: EOS 3's AF performance was much appreciated btw)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

ignay · May 4, 2003

Do I want full frame? No actually.

I rather have 1.3. Makes my 15mm lens a 19.5 instead of 24 :> > >

Don't worry folks, time flies........we'll be there soon.

Thomas Gardner said:
Adam-T said:

1.5Mp more than the 10D? no way - an extra 1 FPS? no way - 45 focus
points? maybe , maybe not, compared to a D60 then YES but the 10D
is no slouch in AF (when you get a good one) in the first place ..

It's got to be more than a measly 1.3X and the EOS3's CPU deficient
version of the 1V AF to tempt people -------- You can tell that I
REALLY want it to be full frame can't you ;-)

Click to expand...

Canon has already given us a clue.

Canon has shown over the years to purposefully hobble the next
model camera. They have shown they like to only take baby steps,
when it comes to up grading a sensor body.

So based upon past Canon performace, they'll go with a 1.3X sensor
and run the middle ground between the 10D and 1Ds on pixel count.
As to focusing issues, it'll depend on how much improvement the
marketing people decide to allow and not a drop more. The key word
is allow as again, Canon likes to hobble their products so the
consumer will have an "EXCUSE" to upgrade to their next year's
model.

Soooooo, with the above in mind, I wouldn't expect more to come out
of Canon in September then a 1.3X sensor with about a nine
megapixel count and a seven point focus system that works. Maybe
some fancy software upgrades but not much more. Oh! And I expect
up all to be surprised by the price in the same way we were
surprised by the price of the 10D.

That's my prognosticating two cents worth.

--
The legendary D30 + BG-ED3
Sigma 15-30, Canon 28-135, 70-200 f/4, TC 2X, EF25
SLIK 803CF, Velbon PH263
LowePro S&F Rover AW

Thomas Gardner · May 4, 2003

Kjeld Olesen said:
It has been hard to resist the 10D, but now I think that I will
manage, and stay with the D30 for just a little longer.

I've been hanging with the D30 also. The only thing I miss are the extra pixels of the 10D. The cost of upgrading every year, as this is a hobby as opposed to a profession, slows me down also. So all my extra dough has gone into lenses and accessories. I think, with this little gem coming out, it'll be sufficent enough of an upgrade to get me to cut loose with a couple of grand worth of loot.

This will be nice as it'll allow me to start doing panos of an extraordinary kind. Need files in the 70-230meg (20"X30") size for Giclee printing purposes. A nine megapixel camera and pano-stitch software will help make it easier to get this sort of file size

Already looking forward to January and February, Spring photo ops in the area. Winter ends in mid/late January in these here parts of the woods

Diane B · May 4, 2003

DavidP said:
The 1D was originally supposed to be CMOS, as I understand it.
But, the only way (at that time) they could get a chip to give 8
fps was to go with CCD.

If they can find a way to make CMOS do 8 fps now, you can bet
they'll dump CCD altogether.

Add to that fact that Canon now produces their own CMOS chips. No
more reliance on outside companies for the most important part of a
digital camera . . the sensor.

Diane B said:

I checked to be sure on the 1Ds, but I thought I remembered that it
has a CMOS sensor--so now this would mean that all the new Canon
cams have CMOS sensors--or am I wrong?? Does this mean that this
is the direction they are going and leaving others with the CCD
sensors?? Interesting---I don't fully understand (nor want to LOL)
all the 'tech' stuff, but I do remember discussions, before I went
the D60 route a year ago, from some of my old Oly SLR friends who
were going Nikon BECAUSE they felt Canon was schizophrenic with
their sensors--CCD AND CMOS. Looks as though perhaps they have
found their own route.
--

Click to expand...

--
The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://thewilkinsons.crosswinds.net
Photography -- just another word for compromise

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic/galleries
B/W lover, but color is seducing me

Olaf.dk · May 4, 2003

frankb said:
i thought the 4/3 system was due to be released in March03.....any
news as to when it will be released? (i too find this new system
extremely interesting).

I don't know much about a release date... I saw that the German photo magazine "Fotomagazin" presents the system in their May issue "Sensation Olympus kündigt Profi-Spiegelreflexsystem an", see: http://www.fotomagazin.de/

Probably says more about it inside the magazine, so if you could get to read that somewhere, maybe at a library? [Of course, you would have to be able to read and understand German].

Olaf
--
Canon G1 owner since December 2000 - G2 owner since May 2002
Flash system: a Canon 420EX, a Canon 550EX and a Canon ST-E2.
After the pictures are taken:
Mac G4/450Mhz, 1Gb RAM, 21' Mac Studio Display w/Colorsync

Yakuza · May 4, 2003

I agree. I am really excited about the Pentax. My first SLR was a Pentax MZ-5,and 28-70F4 which I picked up in Tokyo, then really got interested in photography. The meter in that thing was fantastic. Every shot came out well exposed. Then I got an elanIIe, and the metering was cr@p! I hope, if nothing else, that the Pentax further drops the price of 6MP DSLRs. Forcing Canon to further reduce price (not to mention Nikon). I am interested in this 3D. I'm guessing it will be 8+MP, and about $2499 street.

Petteri Sulonen said:
I fear that 4/3 is a dollar short and a day late. If it had come
out a year ago, it would've made a splash. Now... I don't know. I
think Sigma proved that the market belongs to manufacturers with
existing lens systems and an installed base: the Pentax *ist D is
viable, and a Minolta DSLR would be. And that's about it, really.

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Photo lessons: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/lessons/ ]

Petteri Sulonen · May 4, 2003

Thomas Gardner said:
Petteri Sulonen said:

Adam-T said:

and it's take them ages. look at all the wide angle primes still
with 5-blade diaphragms (including the 14L)

Click to expand...

Hm. What difference does a 5-blade make on a prime that wide? You
can't get any bokeh anyway, because of the DOF.

Click to expand...

Sigma's 15-30mm has an eight blade design for the purpose of out of
focus backgrounds. Go figure

At 30 mm you can actually get some OOF backgrounds, so it sort of makes sense for it. But a 14? Hmm...

Petteri
--
Portfolio: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/index/ ]
Photo lessons: [ http://www.seittipaja.fi/lessons/ ]

EOS3D confirmed for September

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