10D focus test 2 (skip this if you're not interested)

Pigasus · Apr 22, 2003

PearlRider, you make some reasonable points. But I cannot agree with you. People who read forums like this are looking for factual information. They have now been given the tools to check for themselves how well their camera/lenses are performing. And also they now know there is a solution at hand for remedying any problems found.

Previous threads where angry purchasers of faulty 10D's called the camera all sorts of names were not particularly helpful. But did serve to flag up the fact that there seems to be calibration problems with some cameras and lenses. Threads like this one, detailing steps taken to identify and resolve the problems are nothing but helpful.

Neophyte users of the 10D and DSLR's in general may well not have noticed there was a problem. At first. But as they became more skilled and more discerning, they may well have wondered what was wrong. And what if it took them over 12 months to see the fault, when their cameras were out of warranty?

I am one of those you wrote about who has hesitated buying the 10D due to the reports of problems posted on this site. But when Pekka gets his gear back from service, if he is able to report that all is well, I for one will feel confident in purchasing one.

--
Pigasus
The pig that flies
http://www.pigasusgrove.net/gallery/

herb uk · Apr 22, 2003

Pekka Saarinen said:
Theoretically 2/3 of focused area should be behind "0" and 1/3
before.

That only applies at infinity. By 1:1, focus is evenly distributed front and back. Looks like the tests folks are doing are mostly close-up, so the more even distribution would be expected.

The Raven · Apr 22, 2003

Pigasus said:
PearlRider, you make some reasonable points. But I cannot agree
with you. People who read forums like this are looking for factual
information. They have now been given the tools to check for
themselves how well their camera/lenses are performing. And also
they now know there is a solution at hand for remedying any
problems found.

But if you look back in the previous threads about the D30 and D60 and even the 1D, you'll see VERY similar "observations" about those cameras but now, they are the standard against which the 10D is judged. It just goes on and on. Each time a new camera (and I stress NEW... with version 1.0.0 firmware) is released, there's going to be people picking it apart. To expect that every unit is going to be perfect is quite unreasonable. Canon has a good reputation of standing behind their products and I feel confident that they will remedy the situation if one exists. As for someone not knowing their camera has a problem within 12 months, I find that hard to fathom with all the editing programs which can expand the view so that the smallest details can be examined.

Pigasus · Apr 22, 2003

It seems to me that the camera gets calibrated FIRST, using a standard and perfectly calibrated lens. Then the lenses are checked against the calibrated body and adjusted if needed. If you get a second body and it doesn't focus well with your calibrated lenses, then that body needs to be calibrated. Ideally at the same repair shop, using the same perfectly calibrated lens as was used to calibrate the first body. In other words it's 'calibrate your lenses to your CALIBRATED body'.

herb uk said:
When you buy a second body which doesn't behave like your first
one. it will make less sense to you. Canon are in a mess here. This
'calibrate your lenses to your camera' stuff is really dodgy.
Proper engineering requires that equipment is made to a standard
with suitable (suitably low) tolerances. Then you calibrate each
piece to the standard, not to each other. We're going back about
four hundred years here - give me 20 foot of rope please - oh
shame! - your foot is not the same size as mine! Where is this all
leading? Looks like Canon are as deficient in calibration
engineering as they are in software.

--
Pigasus
The pig that flies
http://www.pigasusgrove.net/gallery/

dimage · Apr 22, 2003

Herb is right that as one gets more close up, depth of field is more evenly before and after the focus point.

I believe the 1/3 and 2/3 "rule" seems to apply to typical shooting situations when making a portrait of a person.

At the "Hyperfocal Distance" of focus there is infinite "acceptably in focus" behind the focus point and everything to about half way to the camera is acceptably in focus. Thus the ratio is an infinit amount divided into a finite amount.

Or maybe I misinterprited Herb.

herb uk said:
Pekka Saarinen said:

Theoretically 2/3 of focused area should be behind "0" and 1/3
before.

Click to expand...

That only applies at infinity. By 1:1, focus is evenly distributed
front and back. Looks like the tests folks are doing are mostly
close-up, so the more even distribution would be expected.

Pigasus · Apr 22, 2003

PearlRider said:
But if you look back in the previous threads about the D30 and D60
and even the 1D, you'll see VERY similar "observations" about those
cameras

Agreed.

The Raven said:
but now, they are the standard against which the 10D is judged.

I think it's more a case of judging a camera found to be outside of acceptable tolerance with one that is not. I'm sure that as with the 10D, most of the D30/60's were not faulty. So it's natural if one had a perfect D30/60 and now an imperfect 10D to make the D30/60 the standard.

The Raven said:
It just goes on and on. Each time a new camera (and I
stress NEW... with version 1.0.0 firmware) is released, there's
going to be people picking it apart. To expect that every unit is
going to be perfect is quite unreasonable. Canon has a good
reputation of standing behind their products and I feel confident
that they will remedy the situation if one exists.

Agree with you absolutely! But Canon do not go out of their way to reassure anyone by admitting that a fair number of cameras or lenses are out of spec and need calibrating. Early reports of the softness/focus problems experienced by some were attributed to the 10D itself being flawed. That was very unfortunate. And many, yourself included, tried to convince the worried, that the camera was basically sound and that the problems were with faults in individual cameras and resolvable. Thanks you for that. Others tried to convince all and sundry that all the faults were in the mind of the users. And that only served to enflame the issue. And all it would have taken was a word from Canon giving some clarification.

I think Pekka's thread has clarified a lot of these issues. And for that I'm grateful. He did not create the panic. Perhaps he has helped to soothe it a bit.

The Raven said:
As for someone not knowing their camera has a problem within 12
months, I find that hard to fathom with all the editing programs which
can expand the view so that the smallest details can be examined.

Many newbies are using slower lenses, where the problem is less apparent. The purchase of a faster lens a year down the line might bring the problem to the fore.

--
Pigasus
The pig that flies
http://www.pigasusgrove.net/gallery/

herb uk · Apr 22, 2003

Internet knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Just found this on Google - I suspect it is the full story. See Number 2.

http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/misconceptions.html

also; an old quote from the UK photographer David Bailey when asked how amateurs could best improve their photography 'Get off your ar*e and take some pictures'! Perhaps that is more important than focus naval gazing.

Pekka Saarinen · Apr 22, 2003

Pigasus said:
It seems to me that the camera gets calibrated FIRST, using a
standard and perfectly calibrated lens. Then the lenses are
checked against the calibrated body and adjusted if needed. If you
get a second body and it doesn't focus well with your calibrated
lenses, then that body needs to be calibrated. Ideally at the same
repair shop, using the same perfectly calibrated lens as was used
to calibrate the first body. In other words it's 'calibrate your
lenses to your CALIBRATED body'.

Exactly. You know, I got perfect focus with my D30 and 70-200, and as soon as I sold it the guy who bought it wrote back complaining about out of focus photos - he took it to Canon along his 70-200 and Canon said D30 was off and they fixed it and so his lens worked fine after that. Apparently my D30 and my 70-200 were both off but in SAME direction so I did not see any problems. In this context the procedure repair shop does makes a lot of sense: make sure that body is calibrated, then see if lenses give more problems and fix those.

--
Pekka
http://photography-on-the.net

herb uk · Apr 22, 2003

Pigasus said:
It seems to me that the camera gets calibrated FIRST, using a
standard and perfectly calibrated lens. Then the lenses are
checked against the calibrated body and adjusted if needed.

This implies that the body is now perfect. That is not correct. There will be a certain tolerance. The body becomes a sub-standard in the proper meaning of the word. (Don't know of other countries, but 'sub-standard' is now used in the UK as a term indicating less than perfect performance.)

Of course; if Canon did a proper job the calibration would be accurate to a degree that the tolerance was negligible compared to discernible focus differences. But, in that case, ANY calibrated body would be suitable for use as a sub-standard. The fact that Canon want to calibrate customer SETS of equipment implies that they feel unable to execute individual calibration to an accurate level of precision.

dimage · Apr 22, 2003

That reference explains it as a common misconception. It obviously makes no sense and what is worse, I know I have seen this in a number of books. I think it is an example of "simplifying to the point of meing meaningless."

The same problem goes for CoC and DoF. Rather than really explain what CoC means, the books often "simply" it to the point of being meaningless. Thus we see all these fights over what CoC means and whether the CoC changes with the Crop factor (which in point it does for the same size output and sharpness criteria).

A lot of the "rules" we have learned from 35mm SLR photography books we are finding out to be over-simplifications, often the the point of being down right wrong, that most amateurs never could realistically verify before. Now with the ability essentially for free to take a 100 or so test shots and instantly see a blow up in Photoshop, people are starting to realize that the books were WRONG.

herb uk said:
Internet knowledge is a dangerous thing!

Just found this on Google - I suspect it is the full story. See
Number 2.

http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/misconceptions.html

also; an old quote from the UK photographer David Bailey when asked
how amateurs could best improve their photography 'Get off your
ar*e and take some pictures'! Perhaps that is more important than
focus naval gazing.

Pekka Saarinen · Apr 22, 2003

PearlRider said:
But what you're doing with these tests is making people believe
that they all SHOULD be perfect.

Let's have the quotes about that, please.

The Raven said:
And if their camera is even very
slightly off makes people who had to stretch to buy this camera and
the people who wish to buy the camera afraid of it. There's going
to be some deviations from one sample to the next and that doesn't
mean just the camera but also the lenses. Would your tests show
these deficiencies? Most likely. Would people even have noticed
them in their normal everyday shooting? Most likely they wouldn't.
If they do, then I see no problem with testing. Isn't this what YOU
did? Didn't you see something amiss in your normal shooting and
THEN test?

Yes that is what I said, let's quote:

"I can produce extremely sharp shots with 10D, but there has been problems in that area, too. Last week I managed to see some patterns in where problems occurred and the test mentioned above showed the issue very clearly. Now I know for sure why sometimes the good focus was lost."

I have never said DO THIS TEST NOW, YOU ALL. If you happen to look at facts you will not see here or anywhere else any posts recommending that you should now test your 10D - posts like http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4912902 are not mine. I have only written about my own "mission" to find out what is going on there.

The Raven said:
Now you're causing people to test their cameras right
out of the box without even seeing what the camera will do in real
world shooting. I've even seen posts in which people have bought
the camera but were considering sending it back because of the fear
your testing posts have instilled in them.

MY testing posts? I have said many times that this is my camera and I try to seek resolution to problems MY camera has. I have said clearly that I do not believe all 10D's are faulty.

The Raven said:
Others have stated they
wanted one but are now holding off because of threads like these
have instilled doubt. I think it would be quite easy for Canon to
simply peruse this forum and get all the proof they need to make a
good case against you for the loss of business or the extra expense
needlessly incurred.

Sue me? That is bulls* t and you know it. Based on mail I've got I've 'sold' hundreds if not thousands of Canon digital cameras solely by keeping my gallery and forum up.

I bought the 10D AFTER first soft focus "issues" were written here. I knew there may be soft photos and as I saw it was indeed so I started systematically seeking for reasons.

I'm normally a calm and considerate guy but you really make my blook run faster. It is you who mess things up by unclear ranting, mostly you are assuming reactions 'people' have and how 'people' do this and that. Talk on you own behalf or do not talk at all.

--
Pekka
http://photography-on-the.net

EddyG · Apr 22, 2003

herb uk said:
http://www.vanwalree.com/optics/misconceptions.html

Thanks for this link. I just read his pages on vignetting, lens hoods, filter flare, etc. and feel like I know just a tiny bit more now...

The Raven · Apr 22, 2003

Pekka Saarinen said:
PearlRider said:

But what you're doing with these tests is making people believe
that they all SHOULD be perfect.

Click to expand...

Let's have the quotes about that, please.

This is the insinuation derived from your testing.

Pekka Saarinen said:
Pekka Saarinen said:

And if their camera is even very
slightly off makes people who had to stretch to buy this camera and
the people who wish to buy the camera afraid of it. There's going
to be some deviations from one sample to the next and that doesn't
mean just the camera but also the lenses. Would your tests show
these deficiencies? Most likely. Would people even have noticed
them in their normal everyday shooting? Most likely they wouldn't.
If they do, then I see no problem with testing. Isn't this what YOU
did? Didn't you see something amiss in your normal shooting and
THEN test?

Click to expand...

Yes that is what I said, let's quote:
"I can produce extremely sharp shots with 10D, but there has been
problems in that area, too. Last week I managed to see some
patterns in where problems occurred and the test mentioned above
showed the issue very clearly. Now I know for sure why sometimes
the good focus was lost."

I have never said DO THIS TEST NOW, YOU ALL. If you happen to look
at facts you will not see here or anywhere else any posts
recommending that you should now test your 10D - posts like

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4912902 are not mine. I have only written about my own "mission" to find out what is going on there.

But they ARE doing the test as soon as they get the camera WITHOUT becoming familiar with it first. You're the celebrity here... not me. Your words carry weight... mine don't.

Pekka Saarinen said:
Pekka Saarinen said:

Now you're causing people to test their cameras right
out of the box without even seeing what the camera will do in real
world shooting. I've even seen posts in which people have bought
the camera but were considering sending it back because of the fear
your testing posts have instilled in them.

Click to expand...

MY testing posts? I have said many times that this is my camera and
I try to seek resolution to problems MY camera has. I have said
clearly that I do not believe all 10D's are faulty.

See my above response. This "MAC" guy has been flagging your posts to everyone and insisting that everyone test based on YOUR experiences.

Pekka Saarinen said:
Pekka Saarinen said:

Others have stated they
wanted one but are now holding off because of threads like these
have instilled doubt. I think it would be quite easy for Canon to
simply peruse this forum and get all the proof they need to make a
good case against you for the loss of business or the extra expense
needlessly incurred.

Click to expand...

Sue me? That is bulls* t and you know it. Based on mail I've got
I've 'sold' hundreds if not thousands of Canon digital cameras
solely by keeping my gallery and forum up.

That may be and I'm not saying that they WILL but they COULD if there really isn't a much of an issue as what is being presented here. The discussion usually says that "the 10D" has issues and not "MY 10D has issues".

Pekka Saarinen said:
I bought the 10D AFTER first soft focus "issues" were written here.
I knew there may be soft photos and as I saw it was indeed so I
started systematically seeking for reasons.

I'm normally a calm and considerate guy but you really make my
blook run faster. It is you who mess things up by unclear ranting,
mostly you are assuming reactions 'people' have and how 'people' do
this and that. Talk on you own behalf or do not talk at all.

I'm not assuming any reactions people are having... it HAS been stated here many times that people are being made uncertain about buying the 10D based on what they've read in this forum. I'm sorry I make your blood run faster but you COULD have run all these tests in private, come to conclusions, and THEN posted them.

The Raven · Apr 22, 2003

Pigasus said:
I think it's more a case of judging a camera found to be outside of
acceptable tolerance with one that is not. I'm sure that as with
the 10D, most of the D30/60's were not faulty. So it's natural if
one had a perfect D30/60 and now an imperfect 10D to make the
D30/60 the standard.

I think that people have gone off on a tangent with this testing bit and some don't even test. They just get a bad set of images and, immediately, it's the camera. Now the 10D is the new kid on the block and it's "in the barrel".

Pigasus said:
Agree with you absolutely! But Canon do not go out of their way to
reassure anyone by admitting that a fair number of cameras or
lenses are out of spec and need calibrating. Early reports of the
softness/focus problems experienced by some were attributed to the
10D itself being flawed. That was very unfortunate. And many,
yourself included, tried to convince the worried, that the camera
was basically sound and that the problems were with faults in
individual cameras and resolvable. Thanks you for that. Others
tried to convince all and sundry that all the faults were in the
mind of the users. And that only served to enflame the issue. And
all it would have taken was a word from Canon giving some
clarification.

How long has the camera been out? You don't know how many units have actually been returned. Maybe they base their responses on that rather than the ramblings of people on this forum. And thanks, I am glad that SOMEONE noticed that I'm not the one claiming that people who have problems with their cameras themselves at fault. I can see where it could easily happen though as some people who are buying this camera are buying their first DSLR and, in some cases, their first SLR... period. They're used to the huge DOF that the consumer cams provide. Of course, there's going to be defective cameras just as there are OTHER defective products and it's gonna get worse. As I've explained before, ALL companies are cutting corners to compete and yet STILL maintain the same profit margin for the execs and stockholders. Something's gotta give.

Pigasus said:
I think Pekka's thread has clarified a lot of these issues. And
for that I'm grateful. He did not create the panic. Perhaps he
has helped to soothe it a bit.

Well, perpetuating any of these testing threads keeps adding stress to people who are considering the 10D.

Pigasus said:
Many newbies are using slower lenses, where the problem is less
apparent. The purchase of a faster lens a year down the line might
bring the problem to the fore.

If they just own "slower" lenses, are they supposed to go out and buy faster lenses to test their cameras? Actually, most of these lenses are going to exhibit an abberation one way or another because they were designed for 35mm film cameras in which the tolerances aren't so severe. When the new camera systems like the 4/3 series appear, there's going to be less of this showing up since these lenses were designed for digital use.

Pekka Saarinen · Apr 22, 2003

PearlRider said:
See my above response. This "MAC" guy has been flagging your posts
to everyone and insisting that everyone test based on YOUR
experiences.

Well, then people should really read my texts more carefully.

The Raven said:
The Raven said:

The Raven said:

Others have stated they
wanted one but are now holding off because of threads like these
have instilled doubt. I think it would be quite easy for Canon to
simply peruse this forum and get all the proof they need to make a
good case against you for the loss of business or the extra expense
needlessly incurred.

Click to expand...

Sue me? That is bulls* t and you know it. Based on mail I've got
I've 'sold' hundreds if not thousands of Canon digital cameras
solely by keeping my gallery and forum up.

Click to expand...

That may be and I'm not saying that they WILL but they COULD if
there really isn't a much of an issue as what is being presented
here. The discussion usually says that "the 10D" has issues and not
"MY 10D has issues".

Very good point. This is something that should be changed in all discussions. My 10D. My D30. My D60. Titles like "10D can't focus" are those posts which mess up people's minds. I may have forgot to put "My" there a few times, too.

The Raven said:
I'm not assuming any reactions people are having... it HAS been
stated here many times that people are being made uncertain about
buying the 10D based on what they've read in this forum. I'm sorry
I make your blood run faster but you COULD have run all these tests
in private, come to conclusions, and THEN posted them.

But PearlRider, I think I did just that, didn't I? First I posted http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4821811 and now later http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4923768

I did not rant about focus before or between these posts. They were somewhat analytical and never hostile or negative about the camera.

Before I got my 10D I was in positive mood about what I saw in e.g. http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4579518 , then I posted my first impressions http://photography-on-the.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9523 , been defending 10D all along (mostly against eosfreak), posting software bug report http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4860495 and AI Servo experiences in http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4887139

As I see it I have never said anything bad about 10D image quality, technology or concept, have I? It is a great camera, and a big improvement to my D30 and D60.

--
Pekka
http://photography-on-the.net

Simon Watkins · Apr 22, 2003

This is for PearlRider too....

Pekka Saarinen said:
I did not rant about focus before or between these posts. They were
somewhat analytical and never hostile or negative about the camera.

Nor me. In fact I was overtly critical of MACs original suggested Ruler test and pointed out the much better test that Pekka used in his first post in this thread. The only hostility I've seen has been from those who don't like people taking an analytical approach. I think perhaps PearlRider that you may have been misinterpreting what it is that we are trying to find out here, and reading it as berating the camera. Far from it - it's a great camera with very few buts.

I can't see any of the contributors to this thread overtly being hostile - in fact the discussion has become highly informative. PearlRider - you keep making it personal with quips in other posts like "the ruler testers". I don't see any "ruler testing" going on, and if you care to read, you'll see my berating of MAC when he suggested "Ruler Testing" at 45 degrees. It's no way to verify these issues, which is why I posted the better method, which Pekka subsequently used.

None of the people in this thread are saying don't buy the 10D or berating it. The only people I see berating, are those attacking people interested in the technical issues behind what we are experiencing.

I see many knowledgeable and experienced people taking part in this discussion in a quite rational and educational way. Yet I see you making quips in other threads about the newbie users amongst the "ruler testers", people who've not used SLRs before and so on. Myself, my experience goes back 25 years in photography, and I've used and owned Med Format in a paid capacity, and numerous manual through AF film slrs in a private capacity. I stopped using film around 10 months ago after 25 years. I'm also a graduate Engineer, currently completing an MSc. I don't class myself these days as anything more than an enthusiastic amateur. I don't photograph for money, thus I don't consider myself a Professional. Yet I have worked as a professional Wedding Photographer, some 20 odd years ago before I started my current career. Please leave the discussion be - it's quite a reasoned conversation that's going on, interspersed with flames and quips by yourself. I don't know whether you have some kind of hidden agenda, or what it is that you find it so difficult to ignore the thread that upsets you. But for some unknown reason, the flaming and hostility that is arising, is coming from you.

Simon

Pekka Saarinen · Apr 22, 2003

herb uk said:
Pekka Saarinen said:

Theoretically 2/3 of focused area should be behind "0" and 1/3
before.

Click to expand...

That only applies at infinity. By 1:1, focus is evenly distributed
front and back. Looks like the tests folks are doing are mostly
close-up, so the more even distribution would be expected.

Ok.

Rules are often simplified to make them better overall match for wide range of situations, intuitively.

BTW: Phils says it also so in http://www.dpreview.com/learn/Glossary/Optical/Depth_of_field_01.htm

--
Pekka
http://photography-on-the.net

V.141736 · Apr 22, 2003

First of all thanks for the very useful piece of information.

I have tried your test, and it looks like my 28-135 severely front focus. On the other hand my 70-200 f4 is right on !

What should I do ? Should I just send the defective lens to Canon ? Or should I also send the camera ?

Txs a lot

V.

--
http://www.photographisms.com

Gene G · Apr 22, 2003

I have the same problem with my 70-200mm f/2.8L, 200mm is right on, but 70mm is way off back. But guess what? I tried it on another 10D and a D30, same result! well...I have never noticed this when I used this lens on my D30/D60 before, it might be just the problem of the lens ... anyway, I have sent the 10D and the lens to Canon for service.

Gene

--
Welcome to our D30,D60,10D...1D,1Ds,1Dx...community in Toronto:
http://groups.msn.com/TorontoDigital/

Andrew Chiciak · Apr 22, 2003

So what is your point...should people just ignore a problem or have meaningful discussions about...I certainly don't call this neurotic whining...there is an issue and if you own a camera that has these issues, you need to address it. I shoot for a living...I certainly don't wan't to have to tell my customer that their face is not in focus in a portrait because I just got a new camera that is behaving erratically. That's why testing new equipment of any model or brand is so important...I still shoot polaroids with my film cameras at the beginning of a shoot, partly to make sure the equipment is working properly...its a good stopgap.

PearlRider said:
Pigasus said:

I think it's more a case of judging a camera found to be outside of
acceptable tolerance with one that is not. I'm sure that as with
the 10D, most of the D30/60's were not faulty. So it's natural if
one had a perfect D30/60 and now an imperfect 10D to make the
D30/60 the standard.

Click to expand...

I think that people have gone off on a tangent with this testing
bit and some don't even test. They just get a bad set of images
and, immediately, it's the camera. Now the 10D is the new kid on
the block and it's "in the barrel".

The Raven said:

Agree with you absolutely! But Canon do not go out of their way to
reassure anyone by admitting that a fair number of cameras or
lenses are out of spec and need calibrating. Early reports of the
softness/focus problems experienced by some were attributed to the
10D itself being flawed. That was very unfortunate. And many,
yourself included, tried to convince the worried, that the camera
was basically sound and that the problems were with faults in
individual cameras and resolvable. Thanks you for that. Others
tried to convince all and sundry that all the faults were in the
mind of the users. And that only served to enflame the issue. And
all it would have taken was a word from Canon giving some
clarification.

Click to expand...

How long has the camera been out? You don't know how many units
have actually been returned. Maybe they base their responses on
that rather than the ramblings of people on this forum. And thanks,
I am glad that SOMEONE noticed that I'm not the one claiming that
people who have problems with their cameras themselves at fault. I
can see where it could easily happen though as some people who are
buying this camera are buying their first DSLR and, in some cases,
their first SLR... period. They're used to the huge DOF that the
consumer cams provide. Of course, there's going to be defective
cameras just as there are OTHER defective products and it's gonna
get worse. As I've explained before, ALL companies are cutting
corners to compete and yet STILL maintain the same profit margin
for the execs and stockholders. Something's gotta give.

The Raven said:

I think Pekka's thread has clarified a lot of these issues. And
for that I'm grateful. He did not create the panic. Perhaps he
has helped to soothe it a bit.

Click to expand...

Well, perpetuating any of these testing threads keeps adding stress
to people who are considering the 10D.

The Raven said:

Many newbies are using slower lenses, where the problem is less
apparent. The purchase of a faster lens a year down the line might
bring the problem to the fore.

Click to expand...

If they just own "slower" lenses, are they supposed to go out and
buy faster lenses to test their cameras? Actually, most of these
lenses are going to exhibit an abberation one way or another
because they were designed for 35mm film cameras in which the
tolerances aren't so severe. When the new camera systems like the
4/3 series appear, there's going to be less of this showing up
since these lenses were designed for digital use.

--
Andy C

10D focus test 2 (skip this if you're not interested)

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