I'm getting the sneeky suspicion.....

Bottom line is you don't have the camera - full disclosure or not.
If your relying on what people here say to support your evaluation
of the 10D colors, that's even worse. Go to the store with your CF
card and shoot some pics if you REALLY want to know how it performs.

Your post is ripping a product you've never seen based on total
hearsay.
Based upon hearsay by those that have used it and weren't happy but at no time did I "rip" the product, I simply asked a question and now your looking for a fight.

The nice thing about one hand clapping.... it's not very loud.
 
Mac,
...there is Hardly any noise in 10D -- at ISO 400, it appears
to be better than 1D.
That's what I thought. The one that drew my attention to noise was:



...because otherwise that's a stunning image - and you're right about the colour rendition. Was (is) that an even higher ISO?

Stuart.
 
...there is Hardly any noise in 10D -- at ISO 400, it appears
to be better than 1D.
That's what I thought. The one that drew my attention to noise was:

http://www.shutterfreaks.com/albums/album55/bflyorange.jpg

...because otherwise that's a stunning image - and you're right
about the colour rendition. Was (is) that an even higher ISO?

Stuart.
Thanks!,

ISO800, I'll need to run some spot --light -- noise reduction on the background

--
MAC
http://www.digi-pictures.com
 
Please let us know how you like the Sigma 15030. I'm interested.
Hi John:

First, I’m grateful to the salesperson who persuaded me to try the Sigma. It pays to shop locally (I think).

I’ve only had the lens for a couple of days, and I’m still waiting for better weather so I can do more shooting with it, but the simple tests I did with it so far really impressed me. The 8x10 prints look very good – and I’m talking about no sharpening being used. At 15mm (24mm) the edge sharpness is so much better than the Tamron 14mm (which is what convinced me to sell the 14mm). It appears sharper than my 28-135 IS. The only other lens that is sharper (of the lenses I’ve used) is my 20-35mm USM. I don’t want to take the Sigma off the camera!

--
Tom
Photography – you gotta love it. All kinds of flavors and enough
for everyone. :-)
 
John where did you get your D60 camera profile? I was hoping to get
Magne's profiles but it looks like he has given up on offering
them. I guess he is going with the 10D but for those of us who
don't want to upgrade to the E10, a D60 profile would be very nice
indeed.
Leo:

Yes, I can confirm that I beta tested Magne's excellent D60 profiles. I'm sure he will release those soon and yes, ALL serious D60 camera users should get them.

John
The 10D output color is far more accurate than the D30/D60. When I
had a D60 I needed a camera profile. The 10D AdobeRGb output is
very accurate. Not an absolute color match (some slight, very
slight deviation in the reds/oranges) but probably as close as you
can get w/o a specific camera profile.
--
Leo R
 
one hand clapping - don't get it.

Anyway, the point is, if you have a question to ask, ask it. Don't post that you have a snealy suspicion that one camera performs a certain way than another when:

YOU DON'T KNOW

I'm not looking for a fight, but I will fight to try to remedy some of the rampant misinformation that gets passsed around here by people who have no objective basis for their statements.

I OWNED a D30, I now OWN a 10D. The 10D is superior in every way - including color rendition.

I am speaking from experience, not what I hear is the case.

If you are happy with your D30, I'm happy for you. I certainly was happy with mine. But don't use the forum as a vehicle to make yourself feel better that you don't have a 10D.
Bottom line is you don't have the camera - full disclosure or not.
If your relying on what people here say to support your evaluation
of the 10D colors, that's even worse. Go to the store with your CF
card and shoot some pics if you REALLY want to know how it performs.

Your post is ripping a product you've never seen based on total
hearsay.
Based upon hearsay by those that have used it and weren't happy but
at no time did I "rip" the product, I simply asked a question and
now your looking for a fight.

The nice thing about one hand clapping.... it's not very loud.
 
Good Grief!

I honestly can't fathom threads that start like this one. Here are shots from my first outing with my 10D. Famous Mission Inn in Riverside, California.

These two shots are straight from the camera, converted from RAW without any adjustment, and resized to 600 vertical, only for the web. No other processing. No USM, no color adjust, no exposure adjust, no adjustment whatsoever. Didn't take time to bring out the shadows a bit for web display. This color is spot-on. Just like being there. On my printer, paper combination (Epson 1280 and Epson Heavy Matte) the printed output is better than what I see on-screen in terms of dynamic range.

My 10D is perfect, and a very significant improvement over my D60 (eBay disposal 10 days ago).





Frank P
I'm getting the sneeky suspicion that the color on the 10D isn't
all that good.

Why do I say this, not having a 10D myself. I'm reading more and
more forum posts about those that are missing their D30 because of
the color it produces.

Is the final color product of the 10D worse, not better than the D30?

I would expect the final color of the 10D to be that much better,
not worse.

What's the truth?
 
Thanks, Tom. I'll keep this lens in mind for sure.
John
Please let us know how you like the Sigma 15030. I'm interested.
Hi John:

First, I’m grateful to the salesperson who persuaded me to try the
Sigma. It pays to shop locally (I think).

I’ve only had the lens for a couple of days, and I’m still waiting
for better weather so I can do more shooting with it, but the
simple tests I did with it so far really impressed me. The 8x10
prints look very good – and I’m talking about no sharpening being
used. At 15mm (24mm) the edge sharpness is so much better than the
Tamron 14mm (which is what convinced me to sell the 14mm). It
appears sharper than my 28-135 IS. The only other lens that is
sharper (of the lenses I’ve used) is my 20-35mm USM. I don’t want
to take the Sigma off the camera!

--
Tom
Photography – you gotta love it. All kinds of flavors and enough
for everyone. :-)
 
Nice pics.

When you buy a new car, you have to adjust the seat. You don't just get in and complain that the steering wheel is too close. You take a moment and adjust the car and then get used to it.
I honestly can't fathom threads that start like this one. Here are
shots from my first outing with my 10D. Famous Mission Inn in
Riverside, California.

These two shots are straight from the camera, converted from RAW
without any adjustment, and resized to 600 vertical, only for the
web. No other processing. No USM, no color adjust, no exposure
adjust, no adjustment whatsoever. Didn't take time to bring out
the shadows a bit for web display. This color is spot-on. Just
like being there. On my printer, paper combination (Epson 1280 and
Epson Heavy Matte) the printed output is better than what I see
on-screen in terms of dynamic range.

My 10D is perfect, and a very significant improvement over my D60
(eBay disposal 10 days ago).





Frank P
I'm getting the sneeky suspicion that the color on the 10D isn't
all that good.

Why do I say this, not having a 10D myself. I'm reading more and
more forum posts about those that are missing their D30 because of
the color it produces.

Is the final color product of the 10D worse, not better than the D30?

I would expect the final color of the 10D to be that much better,
not worse.

What's the truth?
--
Kanon Ten Dee
Kanon Gee Two
Kanon Twenty Four to Seventy Millimeter L
Kanon Seventy to Two Hundred Millimeter L IS
 
one hand clapping - don't get it.
A person can only have a fight if there's a willing participant. You need two hands to make a clapping sound. The sound of one hand clapping is silence.
Anyway, the point is, if you have a question to ask, ask it. Don't
post that you have a snealy suspicion that one camera performs a
certain way than another when:
I'll ask anyway I find fit. But thank you for trying to control me. Have you sought couseling for this control problem of yours.
I'm not looking for a fight,
Sure you are. There's no doubt about it. The fact you keep carrying on like this proved you want a fight.
but I will fight to try to remedy some
of the rampant misinformation that gets passsed around here by
people who have no objective basis for their statements.
My basis was the comments by others that have the camera. If you need a fight, get counseling.
I OWNED a D30, I now OWN a 10D. The 10D is superior in every way -
including color rendition.

I am speaking from experience, not what I hear is the case.
Well since I don't have one, I have to take what you and others say which is the hearsay that you don't like. Gee, what a concept, taking other people's experienced opinion into consideration.
If you are happy with your D30, I'm happy for you. I certainly was
happy with mine. But don't use the forum as a vehicle to make
yourself feel better that you don't have a 10D.
At know time was this an issue about the D30, it was a reasonable issue about the characteristics of the 10D. "....don't have a 10D." Wow! You're sicker then even you realize.

We'll let you have the last word as you intent to continue arguing/fighting is quite clear.
 
I don't think I ever bashed it. My first camera was a defect....maybe that's what you're thinking of. I had metering issues with the first one.
Chunin Martinez
...people don't want to take the time to get to know their camera.

The 10D gives much more control over color than the D60/D30 does.
If you want to tone down the colors, you can. If you want to punch
the colors up a bit....you can too.

See this gallery if you're curious....I tested different
color/contrast settings:

http://www.pbase.com/mankman/color_saturation

John
http://www.pbase.com/mankman
Canon EOS 10D
--
John
http://www.pbase.com/mankman
Canon EOS 10D
 
one hand clapping - don't get it.
A person can only have a fight if there's a willing participant.
You need two hands to make a clapping sound. The sound of one hand
clapping is silence.
Anyway, the point is, if you have a question to ask, ask it. Don't
post that you have a snealy suspicion that one camera performs a
certain way than another when:
I'll ask anyway I find fit. But thank you for trying to control
me. Have you sought couseling for this control problem of yours.
I'm not looking for a fight,
Sure you are. There's no doubt about it. The fact you keep
carrying on like this proved you want a fight.
but I will fight to try to remedy some
of the rampant misinformation that gets passsed around here by
people who have no objective basis for their statements.
My basis was the comments by others that have the camera. If you
need a fight, get counseling.
I OWNED a D30, I now OWN a 10D. The 10D is superior in every way -
including color rendition.

I am speaking from experience, not what I hear is the case.
Well since I don't have one, I have to take what you and others say
which is the hearsay that you don't like. Gee, what a concept,
taking other people's experienced opinion into consideration.
If you are happy with your D30, I'm happy for you. I certainly was
happy with mine. But don't use the forum as a vehicle to make
yourself feel better that you don't have a 10D.
At know time was this an issue about the D30, it was a reasonable
issue about the characteristics of the 10D. "....don't have a
10D." Wow! You're sicker then even you realize.

We'll let you have the last word as you intent to continue
arguing/fighting is quite clear.
 
So far the D30 was oversaturated and a bit on the yellow side, the D60 was far more realistic but oversaturated and warm, Very Pleasing really, the 10D is less saturated and a bit more neutral so what does this all say its an argument between Good color vs Accurate color, and of course this Good color is dependant on what you are shooting, if you are shooting people warm colors are very nice, if you are shooting glass on white fading to grey warm oversaturated tones tends to cause the shot to be tinted thats not accurate nor is it good color, for people and portraits the D60 seems much nicer. There were some examples on this site full size of the same subject the colors were slightly different and noticable, I believe they tested the 1DS 10D and D60. You can look for there thread.
Thomas

I suspect the 10D is more like the 1D for colour reproduction which
is far more true to life than the D30/60.

I personally have spoken to several peaple who prefer the
exagerated colours of the D30/60 to those of the 1D
That must be why I like the vivid box checked when I print with the
S9000:-) Some times I have to mute the colors by turning "vivid"
off or printing on matte paper but most of the time it's "glossy"
and "vivid" for me:-)
 
Glen is one person I've found on the forum that has expressed my feelings on 10D color. The brightness tends to make the photos feel a bit toyish at times to me. Reds seem to just be too bright and loose the feeling of being part of the photo. I'm still soaking up sample images though.

There are some other effects too but I'll leave that out for now.

Bill
This is not corrected by just adjusting saturation in camera -
although I suppose someone with the correct profiles can do it in
PhotoShop.

Complexions definitely appear lighter than natural - which makes
them appear easier to get looking natural, and makes them more
cosmetic - so people with light complexions look better on the 10D.
In the fashion and TV business we often did this deliberately to
favor the model. The overall default color balance on the 10D
seems to favor light complexions.

This can easily be seen on MacGrath Rollover on Phil's 10D review.

However, there are some of us who are going to want to hold on to our
D30's and D60's.
I'm getting the sneeky suspicion that the color on the 10D isn't
all that good.

Why do I say this, not having a 10D myself. I'm reading more and
more forum posts about those that are missing their D30 because of
the color it produces.

Is the final color product of the 10D worse, not better than the D30?

I would expect the final color of the 10D to be that much better,
not worse.

What's the truth?
 
Thomas, it's really not fair to make this comment when you don't
even have the 10D. Are you trying to start something?
Where are you getting that from. I commented that I didn't have
the 10D as an admission of the facts. I followed up in my comment
that I was basing my concern on comments by others that have had
the D30 and the 10D.

I swanny, people look for trouble where there isn't any.

Please, if you're sincere in your above comment, go back and reread
my original post.
Thomas,

As much as I liked my D30, the 10D is a much better camera! After only 2 days of owning the 10d, I knew that I wouldn't use my D30 again, and I sold it.

The 10D produces more accurate colour, is more consistent when using AWB, does not tend to underexpose as much as the D30 (in fact, you have to watch the highlights in some situations), is nicer to use (better ergonomics, at least in my hands), and AF is fast and accurate (in my example, anyway).

The nonsense I hear from people who say that the colour is not as punchy as in their D30/60 - tweak it in Photoshop or turn the saturation up in-camera! I actually appreciate having more accurate colour as I have never has skin tones look this good straight out of my D30, or my friend's D60...EVER! In fact, sometimjes I could never get the skin tones to look just right - no such problem with the 10D! :)

--
Regards,

Rudi
http://www.rudiphoto.net/
 
So far the D30 was oversaturated and a bit on the yellow side, the
D60 was far more realistic but oversaturated and warm, Very
Pleasing really, the 10D is less saturated and a bit more neutral
so what does this all say its an argument between Good color vs
Accurate color, and of course this Good color is dependant on what
you are shooting, if you are shooting people warm colors are very
nice, if you are shooting glass on white fading to grey warm
oversaturated tones tends to cause the shot to be tinted thats not
accurate nor is it good color, for people and portraits the D60
seems much nicer. There were some examples on this site full size
of the same subject the colors were slightly different and
noticable, I believe they tested the 1DS 10D and D60. You can look
for there thread.
Sounds like the color is all over the place and dialing in the system for accurate color is a must do:-)

Thanks for your comparitive analysis.
 
Thomas,

As much as I liked my D30, the 10D is a much better camera! After
only 2 days of owning the 10d, I knew that I wouldn't use my D30
again, and I sold it.
I don't know if I could "sell it". That would be like sending a loyal animal off to the glue factory. I'll just make a shrine to it and let it gather dust:-)
The 10D produces more accurate colour, is more consistent when
using AWB, does not tend to underexpose as much as the D30 (in
fact, you have to watch the highlights in some situations), is
nicer to use (better ergonomics, at least in my hands), and AF is
fast and accurate (in my example, anyway).
I've been fine with the slow/bad/horrible AF of the D30, as my subject matter is always static. Oak trees and street signs don't run very fast:-) But the low light, low contrasty subjects do cause troubles when there shouldn't be problems. It seems the much better AF of the 10D makes it worth the price. Amazing how Canon did this. We'll make the little critters suffer through a couple of years of bad AF and then "WHAM!", we'll give them decent AF and watch them hit the hip:-) Yepper, it's a marketing ploy that's working marvelously:-) The next body will have a 1.3X crop and nine megapixels. Just enough to make you want to hit the hip and nothing more. That's their marketing plan.
The nonsense I hear from people who say that the colour is not as
punchy as in their D30/60 - tweak it in Photoshop or turn the
saturation up in-camera! I actually appreciate having more accurate
colour as I have never has skin tones look this good straight out
of my D30, or my friend's D60...EVER! In fact, sometimjes I could
never get the skin tones to look just right - no such problem with
the 10D! :)
It will be nice to get some accurate color. I've had no complaints with the color of the D30. I shoot in JPEG/fine and saturation turned off/low/0 or what ever the lowest setting is:-) As I read some of the postings by owners, comments have showed up as to a dislike of the color the 10D produces. Well, as I'm in the process of clearing out the plastic so as to be able to pick a 10D up, people start spooking me with their comments. Ooos!

I'm looking forward to having twice the pixels to use when enlarging images to 11"X17".

Thanks for the comments.

Oh! How long did it take for you to get use to the 10D and all the color control setting?
 
Glen is one person I've found on the forum that has expressed my
feelings on 10D color. The brightness tends to make the photos
feel a bit toyish at times to me. Reds seem to just be too bright
and loose the feeling of being part of the photo. I'm still
soaking up sample images though.

There are some other effects too but I'll leave that out for now.
Could this possibly, based upon varying positive/negative, be a sensor that was not accurately set in the assembly process?

There seems to be a wide range of people and their feeling towards the output of the 10D. It ranges from dead nuts to not worth a tinker's damn.

This sounds like an assembly, QC, tech setup problem, more then an actual product problem.

Sorry you're having such a time with the color of the sensor body.
 

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