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Jail Bird . . .

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Melanie Kipp said:
Dear Ferenc... what if I shot more photos on that card later? It's
now full of other files...
:-(
Click to expand...
Hi Melanie,

when you take a picture data is written on the card and a file name represents it. When you delete the file no data is erased from the card and just one flag is changed telling the OS of the camera that the file is 'deleted'... if you change back the flag the file will be 'misteriously' recovered... Sadly (in this case), the flag tells too to the OS that the space occupied by the deleted file is available, so if you take more pictures after deleting some deleted ones will be overwriten by new ones: no recover will be possible
 
Pedro M Berjon said:
Melanie Kipp said:
Dear Ferenc... what if I shot more photos on that card later? It's
now full of other files...
:-(
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Hi again,

in my previous post I was talking about deleting individual files... if you format the card chances are that files will be no longer available to recover because this way you are actually deleting metadata that the OS uses to manage files (ie. how to find where filedata begin and end, etc...)

Pedro

See some of my pics at http://bluestar.dnsalias.net/home
 
I regret not trying harder to get away with the photos, but if I got arrested, even on a bogus charge, my Nursing liscense would be in jeopardy... the State Board of Nursing would be obligated to investigate, during which time I wouldn't be able to work. I am the sole provider for my family, so I can't take such a risk....
Jean Ricket said:
Maybe we have to practice saying, "One more and I'm done!" with
pzazz and oomph and a big, jolly grin--especially when he checked
out your ID and you were okay. When I was stopped in SF about a
year ago, I scrolled through the images but didn't delete any. I
kept on talking and showed him all the buttons and it was on the
edge of my thoughts to take his picture, but good sense prevailed
and I didn't. When I went to SF last month, I wondered whether
cameras would be permitted in the demonstrations. They were all
over the place. - Jean Ricket
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
 
That's what I was afraid of... and I did reformat
Pedro M Berjon said:
Pedro M Berjon said:
Melanie Kipp said:
Dear Ferenc... what if I shot more photos on that card later? It's
now full of other files...
:-(
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Hi again,
in my previous post I was talking about deleting individual
files... if you format the card chances are that files will be no
longer available to recover because this way you are actually
deleting metadata that the OS uses to manage files (ie. how to find
where filedata begin and end, etc...)

Pedro

See some of my pics at http://bluestar.dnsalias.net/home
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
 
I had several CF with me, can't imagine why I didn't think this through a little... I guess I was a bit shook up. Thank you for the compliments.... glad my photos make you think of home.
:-)
scrubbob said:
hi melanie,

first your photographs are stunning! my compliments... i look at
them and think of home.

i have always taken GREAT pride in being born and raised in the
mountains of West Virginia.… i long to be home again- my family and
have lived in sc and now nc for several years now... any how...
given your statement, it concerns and saddens me that our state
motto may no longer hold true..."Mountaineers are ALWAYS Free"...

i hope you will be successful in your future photographic
ventures....and ...

if possible, carry a second memory card with you to use in case of
another format or erase incident… if you do not continue to use the
first card, you can usually unformat or recover the files from the
first card when you get home… gotta love technology…sometimes
anyway…
----
Oh, the West Virginia hills! How majestic and how grand,
With their summits bathed in glory, Like our Prince Immanuel's Land!
Is it any wonder then, That my heart with rapture thrills,
As I stand once more with loved ones On those West Virginia hills?
----
respectfully,

scrubbob
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
 
Thank you for the link! I will print it and put it in my camera bag.
:-)
Sheldon Koehler said:
Melanie Kipp said:
He: " Are you photographing the power plant, Miss? "
Me: " Why, yes I am ! smile "
He: " You can't do that. You know, in this day and age"
Me: " I can't???" incredulous
He: " No, Miss. May I see some ID?"
Needless to say the scene ends with me reformatting the CF card,
then driving away...
Click to expand...
I had this printed in my camera bag but just now found the link.
This was posted by someone else on this forum:
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

He had no legal authority to make you delete your images. You have
every right to take them!

Sheldon
--
'I take orders from no one except the photographers.'
– Harry S. Truman
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
 
Athegn said:
Sheldon Koehler said:
I had this printed in my camera bag but just now found the link.
This was posted by someone else on this forum:
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
Click to expand...
I wonder if there is a UK expert on this forum who could tell us if
similar rights are in the UK. I suspect there are.
Click to expand...
Melanie,

I'm shocked to hear about this. While a Brit, I lived in Boston MA for 6 years, including September 11th. This doesn't reflect my experience of the US, which was very positive.

Athegn,

I wouldn't claim to be an expert, but I can't believe anyone would try that on in the UK. The town in which I live has a large nuclear power station and it is visible for 20 miles. That would mean a lot of illegal photos on my part!

The only place I've seen anything like this happen was in Hebron in the West Bank, where a settler, who didn't like the fact that we were talking to the Palestinians, forced a very reluctant Israeli soldier to conficate a New Zealander's film. The settler claimed that a photograph had been taken of a permanent military check point (which is illegal and publicised as such). I think that the soldier realised that he would be sending a lot of foreign tourists from many countries home with a bad opinion of his country for no good reason.

I think we have to remember what people are dying for in Iraq is freedom of speach. If we loose these rights then we have lost, whatever happens on the ground.

Dom
 
Hi, Melanie,

That wasn't a very nice thing to have happen to you! I don't think formatting the card would have been sufficient if anyone had a real case against you, but of course it helps to show your good intentions.

As our Western Society moves further away from assured complacency and into a state of fear we are going to become increasingly hassled. It might not get anything like as bad as it was in the old Communist Block, but it wouldn't be very hard to get there almost overnight thanks to the ease of electronic surveillance.

There was a case last year involving a group of UK Bird-Watchers who took a holiday to Greece to do their 'birding' and they ended up being jailed for taking shots in a prohibited military area near an airbase I think. Although freed after a laborious appeal process, it would certainly put me off ever visiting Greece outside of the tourist traps with a camera.

Here in the UK I wouldn't take photos near schools, military bases, or the environs of law courts - the latter being proscribed and the former two just common sense at this time. But a power station as part of the scenery would be OK... though perhaps not if i went up close to it or was seen using high-powered telephotos.

Wartime restrictions need to be rolled back just as soon as possible and no state of emergency should be allowed to remain a month longer than necessary IMO. Otherwise it's an insidious creep towards George Orwell's "1984" with 'Thoughtcrime' and 'Doublethink' making 'Catch 22's' out of just about anything the individual wants to do. Already these things are seen in operation in the attitudes of officials.
John.
 
Hi Melanie
Melanie Kipp said:
I regret not trying harder to get away with the photos, but if I
got arrested, even on a bogus charge, my Nursing liscense would be
in jeopardy... the State Board of Nursing would be obligated to
investigate, during which time I wouldn't be able to work. I am
the sole provider for my family, so I can't take such a risk....
Click to expand...
Your story fills me with dread. What is the western world coming to when law abiding citizens cannot go about thier lawful way without harrasment by those empowered with the duty of applying the law, because of the actions of a few fundamentalists?

I am a nurse in the UK and myself and my wife are in the process of emmigrating to the USA. This leads me to ask a question, if, as a nurse you are arrested, is not your employer under an obligation to suspend you ONLY, while your guilt or innocence is determined? Would this not mean you carry on recieving your pay?

Look forward to a reply as our future in the USA (the land of the free?) may well be up for reconsideration for a variety of reasons, of which this is one.

Cheers.
--
Darrell 'Stabba' Whittle (it's a long story!)

Some of my best efforts are at http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=520628
 
john farrar said:
As our Western Society moves further away from assured complacency
and into a state of fear we are going to become increasingly
hassled. It might not get anything like as bad as it was in the old
Communist Block, but it wouldn't be very hard to get there almost
overnight thanks to the ease of electronic surveillance.
Click to expand...
The sadder part is that so few people appreciate how far down that path the US has already travelled. Living in Canada it is always a stark contrast to compare "news" here and there. "Here" we get a balance of opinions that last more than 20 seconds, and some of them actually have thoughtful insights to offer, though this latest escapade seems to have given photographers, camermen (camerpeople?) and news anchors everywhere an opportunity to go overboard and forget that there is more on the planet than Iraq and the US. Hopefully, photographers can get beyond the death, destruction, misery and testosterone laden images (and actions), and keep expressing creatively the absolute beauty of other aspects still surviving on our planet.

JD
 
john farrar wrote:
.
john farrar said:
There was a case last year involving a group of UK Bird-Watchers
who took a holiday to Greece to do their 'birding' and they ended
up being jailed for taking shots in a prohibited military area near
an airbase I think. Although freed after a laborious appeal
process, it would certainly put me off ever visiting Greece outside
of the tourist traps with a camera.
Click to expand...
I read this story. They were plane spotters not Bird watchers. However they knew before they went that they were possibly engaging in illegal activities in Greece. It was interesting to view the organisers web site before the plane spotters had time to amend it. The organiser was boasting by saying dont worry we will get away with it.

Now whether or not the Greek authorities should prohibit such activity is up to them but foriegners should not go to other countries knowing that their activities are illegal.

What I am trying to say is do not confuse illegal with legal rights. As in the US most photography is legal in the UK from a PUBLIC place and we must defend that right but do not defend it by using others performing illegal acts.
 
OK, way off the subject of photography, but since it originated with Melanie, we should get lots of leeway here. And strictly speaking, it's not legal advice, since i'm only discussing a general topic: say, professional discipline.

Keep in mind first, it varies from State to State. I practice law in NY, where they are fairly aggressive (and I've defended several Doctors and Nurses).

In general, though, (at least in NY) there is no immediate suspension. That requires a separate finding that the person presents an imminent danger in the profession, and even if the agency makes that initial finding, it is subject to Court review, where you could get a stay (IE continue practicing until the hearing on the merits of the charges).

It's doubtful that the state would even try to suspend immediately based on a mere allegation. (well, murder or abuse might be a different question), and certainly a "ticket" for trespass or "obstructing", especially for activity outside of work -- or even a dwi probably wouldn't endanger your profession. But I have seen disciplinary action for drug CONVICTIONS, but never for pending cases. Keep in mind though, even a mere allegation of improprieties at work is likely to result in employer discipline (suspension) even before the State gets word of it.

The "Patriot Act" (and NY is considering a local version) certainly carries the potential for a substantial interference with individual rights. Right now, we rely on the good faith of those implementing it, but when it comes to fundamental rights: free speech, travel, association, i'm not too comfortable with a "wait and see" attitude.

Hope it helps.

Bart Carrig
 
Melanie Kipp said:
... almost. I was doing some IR shooting this afternoon. There is
a coal fueled electric power plant a few miles from here. A
cloudless blue sky... white steam billowing from the cooling towers
( they look like nuclear power plant cooling towers ), some green
leaves to frame it all.... I had about 1/2 of a 256 mb CF card full
when a police officer drove up.

He: " Are you photographing the power plant, Miss? "
Me: " Why, yes I am ! smile "
He: " You can't do that. You know, in this day and age"
Me: " I can't???" incredulous
He: " No, Miss. May I see some ID?"
Needless to say the scene ends with me reformatting the CF card,
then driving away...

Damn, the previews were awesome.

--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
Click to expand...
--My condolances Melanie. I think my own response would be to question exactly what was unlawful in taking those pictures, and what charge might be laid.

Of course, I've had time to think about it too, (hindsight is so clear) and no licence to lose!

My question is this: Are you going back?

Jim Rickards
 
Hi Bart

Bart Carrig wrote
Bart M. Carrig said:
....in general, though, (at least in NY) there is no immediate
suspension. That requires a separate finding that the person
presents an imminent danger in the profession, and even if the
agency makes that initial finding, it is subject to Court review,
where you could get a stay (IE continue practicing until the
hearing on the merits of the charges).

It's doubtful that the state would even try to suspend immediately
based on a mere allegation. (well, murder or abuse might be a
different question), and certainly a "ticket" for trespass or
"obstructing", especially for activity outside of work -- or even a
dwi probably wouldn't endanger your profession. But I have seen
disciplinary action for drug CONVICTIONS, but never for pending
cases. Keep in mind though, even a mere allegation of
improprieties at work is likely to result in employer discipline
(suspension) even before the State gets word of it.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input (i realise you cannot call it advice!). You have confrmed what i thought. Melanie's situation sounds horrible and i am sure she acted as she thought best at the time, but i am glad that her worry about losing her licence, re. her possible arrest, was unfounded.

Cheers.
--
Darrell 'Stabba' Whittle (it's a long story!)

Some of my best efforts are at http://www.photo.net/shared/community-member?user_id=520628
 
Interesting information Bart, thanks for responding. In talking to a local, I learned there may be a local statute prohibiting photographing this power plant... ???
Bart M. Carrig said:
OK, way off the subject of photography, but since it originated
with Melanie, we should get lots of leeway here. And strictly
speaking, it's not legal advice, since i'm only discussing a
general topic: say, professional discipline.

Keep in mind first, it varies from State to State. I practice law
in NY, where they are fairly aggressive (and I've defended several
Doctors and Nurses).

In general, though, (at least in NY) there is no immediate
suspension. That requires a separate finding that the person
presents an imminent danger in the profession, and even if the
agency makes that initial finding, it is subject to Court review,
where you could get a stay (IE continue practicing until the
hearing on the merits of the charges).

It's doubtful that the state would even try to suspend immediately
based on a mere allegation. (well, murder or abuse might be a
different question), and certainly a "ticket" for trespass or
"obstructing", especially for activity outside of work -- or even a
dwi probably wouldn't endanger your profession. But I have seen
disciplinary action for drug CONVICTIONS, but never for pending
cases. Keep in mind though, even a mere allegation of
improprieties at work is likely to result in employer discipline
(suspension) even before the State gets word of it.

The "Patriot Act" (and NY is considering a local version) certainly
carries the potential for a substantial interference with
individual rights. Right now, we rely on the good faith of those
implementing it, but when it comes to fundamental rights: free
speech, travel, association, i'm not too comfortable with a "wait
and see" attitude.

Hope it helps.

Bart Carrig
Click to expand...
--
Please visit me at:
http://www.caughtintimephotography.com
 
Doc:

That's the spirit ! It's good for freedom (and it's good for lawyers). But if Melanie's right that there's a local law or ordinance about taking photographs in that area, it would be enforceable. Of course, it would be helpful if warnings were actually posted. But you know the saying: "ignorance of the law ..."

I thought the .pdf post on photographers rights was excellent -- it too gives a warning though about local regulations.

I did think of a few other responses for the situation that we all might write on our wrists:

A. It's ok, I'm embedded.

B. It only squirts water.

C. I'm working for Hans Blix

D. I'm with quality control, you passed the test, carry on.

Bart
Dr. Don Sandell said:
As well as my physicians license in the state of Illinois. I'm
willing to take the risk. My lawyer can beat up thier lawyer.
Click to expand...
 
I guess I'm going to lose my membership card here in this forum.

I am NOT defending the actions of law enforcement in your case. God knows, if we think long and hard enough, we can come up with at least one example where each of us has been harrassed.

But the fact of the matter is that power plants are very attractive targets to terrorists. And, at least here in America, you can't take it for granted that all terrorists wear turbans. Let me remind you of Oklahoma City and the Washington D.C.-area sniper shootings.

But back to my point. Take down a power plant, put a city under total darkness and chaos, stretch emergency response teams to the breaking point and you've created enough panic to allow other targets to be struck with little or no resistance. Just think of all the things that could happen if a city's resources are distracted by a power outtage.

Now is Melanie a terrorist taking photos of her next target? I hope not ;-) But if it so happens AFTER the fact that she was, I feel pretty safe in saying that once the news got out that law enforcement could have prevent/deterred/slowed the incident, many would be crying for the heads of those law enforcement officers.

Now before you go accusing me of being one of those people who live by "My country, right or wrong" or "America. Love it or leave it" please know that I am a black male living in America (here it goes, I've lost my welcome for sure) so I think that qualifies me as having little reason to side with law enforcement out of any sense of loyalty or patriotism.

Just my two cents.
 
David Goolsby said:
I guess I'm going to lose my membership card here in this forum.

I am NOT defending the actions of law enforcement in your case. God
knows, if we think long and hard enough, we can come up with at
least one example where each of us has been harrassed.

But the fact of the matter is that power plants are very attractive
targets to terrorists. And, at least here in America, you can't
take it for granted that all terrorists wear turbans. Let me remind
you of Oklahoma City and the Washington D.C.-area sniper shootings.

But back to my point. Take down a power plant, put a city under
total darkness and chaos, stretch emergency response teams to the
breaking point and you've created enough panic to allow other
targets to be struck with little or no resistance. Just think of
all the things that could happen if a city's resources are
distracted by a power outtage.

Now is Melanie a terrorist taking photos of her next target? I hope
not ;-) But if it so happens AFTER the fact that she was, I feel
pretty safe in saying that once the news got out that law
enforcement could have prevent/deterred/slowed the incident, many
would be crying for the heads of those law enforcement officers.

Now before you go accusing me of being one of those people who live
by "My country, right or wrong" or "America. Love it or leave it"
please know that I am a black male living in America (here it goes,
I've lost my welcome for sure) so I think that qualifies me as
having little reason to side with law enforcement out of any sense
of loyalty or patriotism.

Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
 
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