EOS 10D ETTL Metering Question

Kbone · Mar 31, 2003

Many of us who have used the D60 with Canon's 420/550EX flashes have been less than bowled over by the fact that the preflash is metered only in the tiny center focus point area. This has required the use of flash exposure lock and recomposition or just switching over to an auto-thyristor type flash such as those made by Sunpak and Metz.

I haven't heard or seen anything about the ETTL metering method on the EOS 10D. Has Canon taken a new approach or is the same D60 method used?
-Kevin
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

Glenn James · Mar 31, 2003

Kbone said:
I haven't heard or seen anything about the ETTL metering method on
the EOS 10D. Has Canon taken a new approach or is the same D60
method used?
-Kevin

I can't remember where I read it, but no, the 10D does not use the D60's method. I believe it borrows the system or method from the 1D and evaluates the entire image and not just one spot.

Glenn

--

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/gjames

Adam-T · Mar 31, 2003

you can use a 550EX as a point and shoot flash now ! ..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
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Kbone · Mar 31, 2003

Sounds like things have improved and I'm glad to hear it. There's one way to be certain, which you might try the next time you are using the camera and flash together. Focus your camera on the scene (don't use FEL) and then recompose so that the center focus point is entirely on something very light colored (preferably white). Take the photo. If the overall image is underexposed then the camera may still be metering the preflash off the center focus point and trying to render that spot something like 18% gray. This test will probably not work in a situation where the flash is being used as auto-fill, so the best way to try it is indoors in fairly low light.

There may also be something in the user manual in the section on ETTL flash explaining how the camera meters.
Thanks,
-Kevin
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

tuanokc · Mar 31, 2003

Except Iraq....

Canon and Nikon user. Film/Digital

sean · Mar 31, 2003

Here's a fix; use the * key for auto-focus (custom function 4 set to 1 or 3). This sets the E-TTL metering to evaluative mode. This also happens if you set your lens to manual focus mode. This isn't well documented so nobody seems to know about it.

Using * for focus seems a bit awkward at first but since I got used to it (which really didn't take long) I much prefer it.

Kbone said:
Many of us who have used the D60 with Canon's 420/550EX flashes
have been less than bowled over by the fact that the preflash is
metered only in the tiny center focus point area. This has required
the use of flash exposure lock and recomposition or just switching
over to an auto-thyristor type flash such as those made by Sunpak
and Metz.
I haven't heard or seen anything about the ETTL metering method on
the EOS 10D. Has Canon taken a new approach or is the same D60
method used?
-Kevin
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'
Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM
Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter,
Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

Eric Cohen · Mar 31, 2003

I am assuming you are referring to the 10D?

Out of curiousity, when you use the * key for auto-focus, do you switch FEL to the Assist button just to the left? Or do you not use FEL?

Thanks.

Eric

sean said:
Using * for focus seems a bit awkward at first but since I got used
to it (which really didn't take long) I much prefer it.

Kbone said:

Many of us who have used the D60 with Canon's 420/550EX flashes
have been less than bowled over by the fact that the preflash is
metered only in the tiny center focus point area. This has required
the use of flash exposure lock and recomposition or just switching
over to an auto-thyristor type flash such as those made by Sunpak
and Metz.
I haven't heard or seen anything about the ETTL metering method on
the EOS 10D. Has Canon taken a new approach or is the same D60
method used?
-Kevin
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'
Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM
Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter,
Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

Click to expand...

Gene G · Mar 31, 2003

"To obtain more stable flash exposures, the EOS 10D's algorithm for
calculating the main flash output is based on the algorithm used by the
EOS-1V and EOS-1D/1Ds. Since a wide area of the image is metered for flash,
the flash exposure remains stable even if the framing is slightly changed.
Meter readings from highly reflective surfaces are ignored or the weighting
is reduced so that it will not adversely affect the exposure of the
subject."

Sounds like a huge improvement for me

Gene

--
Welcome to our D30,D60,10D...1D,1Ds,1Dx...community in Toronto:
http://groups.msn.com/TorontoDigital/

Juli Valley · Mar 31, 2003

Thanks. I kept hearing the ETTL worked better on the 10D, but I didn't know the reason.

Gene G said:
"To obtain more stable flash exposures, the EOS 10D's algorithm for
calculating the main flash output is based on the algorithm used by
the
EOS-1V and EOS-1D/1Ds. Since a wide area of the image is metered
for flash,
the flash exposure remains stable even if the framing is slightly
changed.
Meter readings from highly reflective surfaces are ignored or the
weighting
is reduced so that it will not adversely affect the exposure of the
subject."

Sounds like a huge improvement for me

Gene

--
Welcome to our D30,D60,10D...1D,1Ds,1Dx...community in Toronto:
http://groups.msn.com/TorontoDigital/

--
http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=19579
Canon 1oD, C-21ooUZ, C-3o4oZ.
Juli

http://www.pbase.com/image/12306088.jpg

sean · Mar 31, 2003

Eric Cohen said:
I am assuming you are referring to the 10D?

10D, D60, 1D -- this works the same for all of them.

Eric Cohen said:
Out of curiousity, when you use the * key for auto-focus, do you
switch FEL to the Assist button just to the left? Or do you not use
FEL?

I don't use FEL, I've never needed it. I started using * to focus quite a while ago and never had the random-seeming E-TTL exposure issues a friend was having with his 1D. He did some research and discovered this tidbit, switched his 1D to focus using , and hasn't had trouble since.

Kbone · Mar 31, 2003

That's good news for 10D owners. Too bad I'm not upgrading from the D60 this generation. Gives me something to look forward to next March or so. Thanks for the info.
-Kevin

Gene G said:
"To obtain more stable flash exposures, the EOS 10D's algorithm for
calculating the main flash output is based on the algorithm used by
the
EOS-1V and EOS-1D/1Ds. Since a wide area of the image is metered
for flash,
the flash exposure remains stable even if the framing is slightly
changed.
Meter readings from highly reflective surfaces are ignored or the
weighting
is reduced so that it will not adversely affect the exposure of the
subject."

Sounds like a huge improvement for me

Gene

--
Welcome to our D30,D60,10D...1D,1Ds,1Dx...community in Toronto:
http://groups.msn.com/TorontoDigital/

--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'

Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter, Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

Joo · Mar 31, 2003

tuanokc said:
Except Iraq....

Canon and Nikon user. Film/Digital

--

Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture. In the meantime, I'll blame the equipment.
http://www.pbase.com/jchung/portfolio

Joo · Mar 31, 2003

I agree with Adam-T (this is twice in the past week. this is getting scary). I'm not exactly certain what the 10d does, but it is much better than the D30/D60. You can actually use ETTL now.

Joo

Kbone said:
Many of us who have used the D60 with Canon's 420/550EX flashes
have been less than bowled over by the fact that the preflash is
metered only in the tiny center focus point area. This has required
the use of flash exposure lock and recomposition or just switching
over to an auto-thyristor type flash such as those made by Sunpak
and Metz.
I haven't heard or seen anything about the ETTL metering method on
the EOS 10D. Has Canon taken a new approach or is the same D60
method used?
-Kevin
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'
Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM
Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter,
Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

--

Maybe one day I'll take a decent picture. In the meantime, I'll blame the equipment.
http://www.pbase.com/jchung/portfolio

AndrewH · Mar 31, 2003

The 10D does a better job with E-TTL than my D30 did. It's still not perfect in my opinion, my Metz does better in A mode than my 550EX does in E-TTL. I do use my 550EX for fill flash for outdoor stuff, the Metz tends to be slightly aggressive in those cases.

Andrew

Kbone said:
Many of us who have used the D60 with Canon's 420/550EX flashes
have been less than bowled over by the fact that the preflash is
metered only in the tiny center focus point area. This has required
the use of flash exposure lock and recomposition or just switching
over to an auto-thyristor type flash such as those made by Sunpak
and Metz.
I haven't heard or seen anything about the ETTL metering method on
the EOS 10D. Has Canon taken a new approach or is the same D60
method used?
-Kevin
--
'The French: They're Always There When They Need You'
Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM
Macro, 420EX, Alien Bees monolights, Sekonic L358 flash meter,
Sunpak PZ5000AF, Epson 2200
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

Rune Moberg · Mar 31, 2003

Gene G said:
"To obtain more stable flash exposures, the EOS 10D's algorithm for
calculating the main flash output is based on the algorithm used by
the
EOS-1V and EOS-1D/1Ds. Since a wide area of the image is metered
for flash,

I assumed the main difference D60 vs 1V/1D/1Ds was the number of AF points. More active AF points = better chance of multiple spot readings = better exposure most of the time (more or less).

I.e. I wish they'd go into detail on this. (Plus I would have preferred it had you posted a link, specially this close to April 1st)

--
Rune, http://runesbike.com/

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EOS 10D ETTL Metering Question

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