netop
Forum Enthusiast
I think this tread have become sick , feel free to have it delete....d
I never wanted this tread in the first place, I just accepted it. jaus
I never wanted this tread in the first place, I just accepted it. jaus
-
Welcome to the new forums! Please read this first. For known issues we are working to resolve, click here.
for peace pic
- Thread starter netop
- Start date
John Wendeln
Active member
--
JohnW
So, after your own check, no one country in the Coalition list actually use torture systematically (I do not refer to minor offences to human rights).
We have plenty of bloody regimes committing atrocities every day. Yourself wrote a list, and I'd put my signature there. But please show me evidence of Saddam commitment to 9-11. Gen. Powell was not able of showing that.
By moving war to Saddam in that stupid way, without consensus by the puiblic opinion woldwide, USA are actually breeding one or two dozens of Saddam clones. Also creating a whole generation of apprentice suicide bombers. Go now to Egypt, or Jordan, or why not, Turkey and wave a Star-and-Stripes flag, or just show your western face on a Friday afternoon! And yet these people are the same that yesterday welcomed American tourists.
I am not used to argue about perceptions.
When Saddam committed that atrocity, the Desert Storm Allies were still there, packing their weapons to send back home. And didn't move a finger. It was 12 years ago. Maybe this is the reason why Kurds are not welcoming the Coalition forces so warmly!
You really need explanation???
"- The population of Coalition countries is approximately 1.23
billion people.
... the populations on non-coalition countries is more than 5 billion.
- Coalition countries have a combined GDP of approximately $22
Does it mean that GDP is an indicator of democracy, or what? Inside Coalition, USA GDP share is 0.28, while Eritrea share is 2.8x10-5. Also, at the actual trend of growth, GDP of China (People's Republic of) will be equal to USA in 15 years or so. At that time Chinese will enjoy the same degree of freedom as Americans?
- Every major race, religion, ethnicity in the world is represented.
- The Coalition includes nations from every continent on the globe."
WHAT DOES ALL THAT MEAN???
And, by the way, why Canada is not listed there?
Rgds
--
Rapick
J
jrg
Guest
There is a time for hard power, and there is time for soft power. World opinion favored soft power in dealing with Iraq, but Bush in his foolhardiness opted to take the hard power course. Now we are being greeted with a big surprise, and an Iraqi people who dread us worse than they do Saddam.
Moreover, there have been times in our history when the US has misjudged the use of soft and hard power. This is clearly one of them.
Moreover, there have been times in our history when the US has misjudged the use of soft and hard power. This is clearly one of them.
Backdoctor
Forum Pro
Roseman,
Not here to start a fight with you. Just tired of everyone bashing my country, countrymen, etc - all believing they "really know the truth". All thinking they know the mindset of americans, as if we were all the same. They know nothing!
All the B.S. about a preemptive strike making Bush a thug and worse than Saddam is a joke. Perhaps if we were to wait as most nations did in the 1930's for him to do some more damage, kill more people - just like Hitler - or is it we waited too long then? Or was it we stuck our noses in Europes business then? Funny, nobody minded our help then. I am not saying Saddam killed over 6 million. No not yet, I believe the estimates are that he is responsible for the deaths of approximately 1 million. Oh, but let us argue on confirmation of the numbers.
You want to bring common sense here? What are your qualifications? It's fruitless? Yeah, right.
You know nothing about me, but you appear to judge me because I am an american. You just proved you are worse than the generalization of americans we see perpetuated here by "europeans". So think twice before you profess to bring common sense here.
I am not for war, but not ashamed of the purpose of the war. I wish for peace every day. Of course, then I must not be american, only europeans have a conscience, right? Only people from europe know whats going on in the world right? Sure, right.
Peace to all.
Harris
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
Not here to start a fight with you. Just tired of everyone bashing my country, countrymen, etc - all believing they "really know the truth". All thinking they know the mindset of americans, as if we were all the same. They know nothing!
All the B.S. about a preemptive strike making Bush a thug and worse than Saddam is a joke. Perhaps if we were to wait as most nations did in the 1930's for him to do some more damage, kill more people - just like Hitler - or is it we waited too long then? Or was it we stuck our noses in Europes business then? Funny, nobody minded our help then. I am not saying Saddam killed over 6 million. No not yet, I believe the estimates are that he is responsible for the deaths of approximately 1 million. Oh, but let us argue on confirmation of the numbers.
You want to bring common sense here? What are your qualifications? It's fruitless? Yeah, right.
You know nothing about me, but you appear to judge me because I am an american. You just proved you are worse than the generalization of americans we see perpetuated here by "europeans". So think twice before you profess to bring common sense here.
I am not for war, but not ashamed of the purpose of the war. I wish for peace every day. Of course, then I must not be american, only europeans have a conscience, right? Only people from europe know whats going on in the world right? Sure, right.
Peace to all.
Harris
--
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
Backdoctor
Forum Pro
Tom,
If they are idiots for not answering him, heck, that makes you a genius, eh?
I always thought highly of your photographic, and conversational skills, but this brings my opinion of you to an alltime new height.
Harris
P.S. Love that shot of your little girl, she is too cute.
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
If they are idiots for not answering him, heck, that makes you a genius, eh?
I always thought highly of your photographic, and conversational skills, but this brings my opinion of you to an alltime new height.
Harris
P.S. Love that shot of your little girl, she is too cute.
--I can't understand why they wouldn't want to answer you! Just be
careful of who is standing around you when you have your
"conversations" with these imaginary friends.
Tom
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
MarekM
Leading Member
MarekM wrote:
1. Torture list is your argument, not mine. I do not know what it has do do with anything.
2. 9-11 has nothing to do with invasion of Iraq, what gave you that idea?
3. How could you get consensus if French shot down democratic process before giving it a chance? yes, there is an anti-American sentiment in Moslim countries, but you tell me if people there have access to balanced information. When did you see any of their heads of state give press conferences? Saudis did not receive the American President on their soil in the past because he was an infidel. Is this tolerance?
Finally, why are so many from hate-America countries emigrate to that hated America whenever they have a chance?
4. O.K.
5. I guess Saddam gave coalition forces a warning about gassing Kurdish pople so that they could prevent it. Why Americans did not finish the job 11 years ago, I do not know. people make mistakes but mistakes do not make them criminals. Would you have criticized Americans 11 years ago for going all the way to Baghdad or would you cheer them?
6. Coalition - see your point 4. You nicely contradict yourself and have some perceptions about the list. Nowhere in WH press release is there any comment about what you perceive. It simply states facts, that's all.
Canada does not support his closest ally and friend, probably because of the links our PM has with France. Our PM has disgraced himself on many occasions , starting with 9-11 when he did not even go to visit the site and pay tribute to victims, using lame excuse, denied by NYC Mayor's office, that he was asked not to visit the site.
I guess we are approaching the limit of this thread now. We do have very different opinions and will likely remain there.
rgds
1. Torture list is your argument, not mine. I do not know what it has do do with anything.
2. 9-11 has nothing to do with invasion of Iraq, what gave you that idea?
3. How could you get consensus if French shot down democratic process before giving it a chance? yes, there is an anti-American sentiment in Moslim countries, but you tell me if people there have access to balanced information. When did you see any of their heads of state give press conferences? Saudis did not receive the American President on their soil in the past because he was an infidel. Is this tolerance?
Finally, why are so many from hate-America countries emigrate to that hated America whenever they have a chance?
4. O.K.
5. I guess Saddam gave coalition forces a warning about gassing Kurdish pople so that they could prevent it. Why Americans did not finish the job 11 years ago, I do not know. people make mistakes but mistakes do not make them criminals. Would you have criticized Americans 11 years ago for going all the way to Baghdad or would you cheer them?
6. Coalition - see your point 4. You nicely contradict yourself and have some perceptions about the list. Nowhere in WH press release is there any comment about what you perceive. It simply states facts, that's all.
Canada does not support his closest ally and friend, probably because of the links our PM has with France. Our PM has disgraced himself on many occasions , starting with 9-11 when he did not even go to visit the site and pay tribute to victims, using lame excuse, denied by NYC Mayor's office, that he was asked not to visit the site.
I guess we are approaching the limit of this thread now. We do have very different opinions and will likely remain there.
rgds
Strategist
Senior Member
Thanks for clearing that up for me. Could you please define for me what "world opinion" means? Where do you get your data?
But I'm certain you have better sources and insight than Colin Powell, anyway.
Tom
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
But I'm certain you have better sources and insight than Colin Powell, anyway.
Tom
--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
Strategist
Senior Member
--If they are idiots for not answering him, heck, that makes you a
genius, eh?
I always thought highly of your photographic, and conversational
skills, but this brings my opinion of you to an alltime new height.
Harris
P.S. Love that shot of your little girl, she is too cute.
--I can't understand why they wouldn't want to answer you! Just be
careful of who is standing around you when you have your
"conversations" with these imaginary friends.
Tom
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
netop
Forum Enthusiast
We sure are different in may aspect, time for me to live this place
Bye. jaus
Bye. jaus
Backdoctor
Forum Pro
I saw news footage of Iraqi people glad to see us. The unhappy ones seem to be the hardline Saddam supporters. Where did you see they were unhappy to see us?
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
--
Harris
Cp5700, N6006
Pbase Supporter
http://www.pbase.com/backdoctor
J
jrg
Guest
Gosh, I've been reviewing your right wing posts but I didnt perceive you to be so snide. In any case, world opinion is what's appearing on your TV screen every day in the form of protersts, around the world and at home. And voiced by common sense in the UN. World opinion is the many nations not only opposed but condemning this war, including China. I suppose that, too, doesnt constitute world opinion.
As for powell, powell originally supported waiting to make any military moves but was told by our cowboy president to tow the line and get on board. He franklkly should have resigned, but instead he buckled. Observe his body language now. He's doing lip service. He knew this was a bad move.
As for data, where do you get yours? And this trumped up coalition of supporting nations who presently owe the US favors.
As for powell, powell originally supported waiting to make any military moves but was told by our cowboy president to tow the line and get on board. He franklkly should have resigned, but instead he buckled. Observe his body language now. He's doing lip service. He knew this was a bad move.
As for data, where do you get yours? And this trumped up coalition of supporting nations who presently owe the US favors.
Strategist
Senior Member
It sounds like you have really thought all this through and have insights that few enjoy. I've had the opportunity to work with the US Air Staff & Command College, the US Airforce War College, and the National Security Council. Seeing these men and women debate and "fight" every imaginable type of engagement shows me that they truly do understand what Sun Tzu said when he wrote:
"The great and successful strategist first wins that war in the Temple Rehearsal, and then enters the battle." They have much more going for them than you could ever imagine!
Honestly, there are no real surprises here, except maybe for the less informed among us. You have yourself "misjudged" the preparation that goes into something like this. I go back to my comments that are on the bottom of each of my postings: 'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
But thanks for your "generalities."
Tom
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
"The great and successful strategist first wins that war in the Temple Rehearsal, and then enters the battle." They have much more going for them than you could ever imagine!
Honestly, there are no real surprises here, except maybe for the less informed among us. You have yourself "misjudged" the preparation that goes into something like this. I go back to my comments that are on the bottom of each of my postings: 'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
But thanks for your "generalities."
Tom
--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
Strategist
Senior Member
J
jrg
Guest
Nice tactic, Tom. Nice but all too obvious. I've been monitoring your posts and you buttress your arguments with vague references to past associations with organizations and quotes from Sun Tzu. And the saddest of all, reading the posts of others who take the same position as I do, none of this is sinking into your head.
Well planned out? The military is now admitting that they miscalculated the present reaction of the Iraqi people. They don’t see us as liberators, but invaders. In the meantime people around the world are protesting vehemently against this bullying campaign, nations are condemning it, we are not trusted, we are dreaded. As an earlier post stated, we treated Saddam as a buddy, one of our regional pals. We did nothing about his gassing the Kurds. The US has failed to show one solid piece of evidence that has convinced the UN enough that he has weapons of mass destruction. This is hype, being presented by an unreliable, lying, and dangerously minded administration.
Well planned out? The military is now admitting that they miscalculated the present reaction of the Iraqi people. They don’t see us as liberators, but invaders. In the meantime people around the world are protesting vehemently against this bullying campaign, nations are condemning it, we are not trusted, we are dreaded. As an earlier post stated, we treated Saddam as a buddy, one of our regional pals. We did nothing about his gassing the Kurds. The US has failed to show one solid piece of evidence that has convinced the UN enough that he has weapons of mass destruction. This is hype, being presented by an unreliable, lying, and dangerously minded administration.
"The great and
successful strategist first wins that war in the Temple Rehearsal,
and then enters the battle." They have much more going for them
than you could ever imagine!
Honestly, there are no real surprises here, except maybe for the
less informed among us. You have yourself "misjudged" the
preparation that goes into something like this. I go back to my
comments that are on the bottom of each of my postings: 'Knowledge
that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really
good.' --Sun Tzu
But thanks for your "generalities."
Tom
--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu
J
jrg
Guest
Are you confusing people rushing for food and water with actual enthusiasm to see us? Or little kids just smiling in fascination at the cameras?
MorkvonOrk
Active member
Hi Tom,
here a photo of some members of "the axis of evil", I took in the Hindu Kush in 1996. They matter to me, as all children, yours included.
As to the mirror, I was reffering to your inflammatory postings and your own comment on it. Sorry you missed that one.
Mork
Strategist
Senior Member
..from so long ago, let me think...oh yeah! This one is from March 27, 2003.
http://headlines.sify.com/1795news1.html
Have fun!
Now I really would be "tactical" if I could be swayed by the BS that has been flying from those in the "same position as" you. Thank God that none of it is "sinking into [my] head." By the way, I am more Strategic than Tactical in my responses. Didn't you catch that?
"The military is now admitting that..." I think you are getting Peter Arnette confused with the US military. And, yes, we should have done much more, and earlier. I agree with you there.
Tom
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
http://headlines.sify.com/1795news1.html
Have fun!
Now I really would be "tactical" if I could be swayed by the BS that has been flying from those in the "same position as" you. Thank God that none of it is "sinking into [my] head." By the way, I am more Strategic than Tactical in my responses. Didn't you catch that?
"The military is now admitting that..." I think you are getting Peter Arnette confused with the US military. And, yes, we should have done much more, and earlier. I agree with you there.
Tom
"The great and
----successful strategist first wins that war in the Temple Rehearsal,
and then enters the battle." They have much more going for them
than you could ever imagine!
Honestly, there are no real surprises here, except maybe for the
less informed among us. You have yourself "misjudged" the
preparation that goes into something like this. I go back to my
comments that are on the bottom of each of my postings: 'Knowledge
that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really
good.' --Sun Tzu
But thanks for your "generalities."
Tom
--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
The Coalition forces, aren't they there to grant poor Iraqi with freedom and democracy? Do you guess people practicing torture at home (more than 50% in the WH list) - NOT USA and UK! - can export freedom anywhere?
Yourself - when talking here about suicide bombers . What were you referring to? Israel, maybe - in that case I'd put other countries before Iraq.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? yes, there is an anti-American
Never told of any tolerance or right to information there! Just, this war is worsening all that! The Desert Storm coalition included most of the moderate arabic countries. This time, not. Admit it's a diplomatic disaster. Or Pesident Bush is teally happy to have Honduras at his side?
Should they prefer starvation at home?
people make mistakes.
I guess it was no mistake. Simply they preferred to keep a weakened Saddam than having chaos throughout that region. Now they changed their mind. What brilliant post-Saddam settlement are they thinking of, I can't even imagine. And this really frightens me and many others here.
This is a silly query, indeed. Sorry
Yes, it states some trifling things. Someone in the WH staff would deserve immediate dismissal for such a poor performance.
Or maybe, being Canada a democratic country, the majority do not share your views - and let me say - I love Canada and I am glad of that!!!
Right, let's stop here.
Rgds
--
Rapick
Strategist
Senior Member
...what type of "vague credentials" did you say that you have?
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
"The great andhttp://headlines.sify.com/1795news1.html
Have fun!
Now I really would be "tactical" if I could be swayed by the BS
that has been flying from those in the "same position as" you.
Thank God that none of it is "sinking into [my] head." By the way,
I am more Strategic than Tactical in my responses. Didn't you
catch that?
"The military is now admitting that..." I think you are getting
Peter Arnette confused with the US military. And, yes, we should
have done much more, and earlier. I agree with you there.
Tom
------successful strategist first wins that war in the Temple Rehearsal,
and then enters the battle." They have much more going for them
than you could ever imagine!
Honestly, there are no real surprises here, except maybe for the
less informed among us. You have yourself "misjudged" the
preparation that goes into something like this. I go back to my
comments that are on the bottom of each of my postings: 'Knowledge
that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really
good.' --Sun Tzu
But thanks for your "generalities."
Tom
--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu
Similar threads
Keyboard shortcuts
- f
- Forum