for peace pic

netop · Mar 30, 2003

Yore perspective has become a mirror you can move in what ever direction you want, but you are forgetting a factor
Hope you will find it..good night.. jaus

Rob Patterson said:
David M. said:

Totally irrelevant comparison.
Hitler attempted to take control of all of Europe, Africa, and even
broke it's non-aggression pact with Stalin (who, by the way,
deserves more credit for defeating the Third Reich than America
ever should get).

Click to expand...

Actually, it's a very relevant comparison. Hitler didn't start with
a massive army. When his rise to power was in it's infancy, the
time to stop him was possible. When Hitler re-toke the Rhineland
un-opposed, he (Hitler) was gambling. His generals and even he knew
that if France, Britain and other countries opposed him he did not
have the power to hold his ground. The third Reich would have been
snuffed out in a short and far less costly way than what occured
when the League of Nations failed to act.
Here's a photo of good ole Chamberline giving his "Peace in our
Time" speech.

Hey! Peace is great. Waiting around while another power hungry
psycho develops his arms and armies is not a smart thing to do.
Saddam worships Stalin. Something kind of spine chilling to think
about. Saddams bookshelves are full of Stalins writtings. His
security force is modeled after Stalin's methods.
I and a large number of other people do not want this guy around. I
did not want this war to start because the U.S. is in the economic
pits. Now, without the help of France or Russia, the U.S. is going
to suffer economically before the is over. When the U.S. market
bottoms out, the rest of the world goes with it. Bush screwed up
doing this at this point in time. How bout some assistance getting
Stalin number 2 out of power?

Member said:

The Third Reich was also a MAJOR military force to be reckoned
with. A far cry from the state of military might Iraq is and has
been in.
Nothing to compare to WW2 with. Nothing whatsoever.

Tuba Paul said:

Member said:

... This invasion is nothing more than schoolyard bullying. America
being the "biggest" bully gets to do pretty much what it wants...
--Dennis

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The same way America and England bullied Hitler out of France and
most of the rest of Europe?

--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog,
it's too dark to read...

Click to expand...

--
(DC's)/ Oly E20, Kodak DC4800's, (DV)/ Canon GL1, ZR25,(35mm)/
Minolta HTsi+
PBase supporter

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Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. · Mar 30, 2003

jaus said:
Yore perspective has become a mirror you can move in what ever
direction you want, but you are forgetting a factor
Hope you will find it..good night.. jaus

hmmm ... OK, good night. "Nanny nanny boo boo" to you too. Hate it when folks start a thread ... and walk away.
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

Strategist · Mar 30, 2003

David M. said:
David M. said:

less than you could make in the private sector."> >

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David, please try to stay up with me or I will need to go back to telling another "Davis" story. I lived in Florida and worked there and moved to NJ from there in 1981. NJ was a much higher cost of living state than Florida. When I was in the Navy it was 1969-1972. Perhaps that was before you were born?

You don't get drafted into the Navy, Davis...sorry...David! Please study before you attempt to take me on mentally. My Dad, both brothers, my 3 uncles all joined the US military, but I am not offended by anyone who served in the military regardless of draft or signing up. I am offended by evaders!

How do you know that I grew up with a dad? And if I did, that is really none of your concern, now is it? I am pleased that you find the time to work with homeless etc. You are right about that "low cost photography" thing. Ain't that "American" thing great?

David M. said:
Not true, at least not back in the very early 80's. There was a
big time recession on, jobs were scarce and what there was paid
diddly. Add to that the cost of living there, and it spelled
poverty with a capital P. Working in the military, you DID get
taken care of, fed and clothed, and did'nt have to worry at all
about being laid off and wondering how you were going to make next
month's rent. I'm sorry you were drafted though.....most members
of my family, including my dad, joined voluntarily.

"What have you done in service for your country, by the way?"> >

I have volunteered for community service in every state I've lived
in, and continue to do so.....including working for homeless and
battered women's shelters, animal control centers, and volunteer
firefighting. I also offer low cost video and still photography to
low income weddings at the local churches (though I must admit this
is somewhat self-serving as I do use the images for a portfolio in
exchange).

" The other "challenges" you faced are not too different from many

David M. said:

who came here for freedom and opportunity or who grew up in less
than optimum situations."> >

Click to expand...

Yes, this is true. That is why I'm not whining about my
predicaments, only expressing what I've been through. Without the
benefit of any family whatsoever excepting my mother, whom I saw
very little of since she had to work two jobs most her life to
raise me since all she got for losing her husband was a sorry note
and a few measly bucks from Uncle Sam for her sacrifice. I hope
your mom fared better Tom.

Once again, I don't need to say more than I have about my childhood, because, once again, it is none of your concern. But you are whining, aren't you?

David M. said:
"You see, I started working at 10 years old in a Laundromat in a

David M. said:

small southern town, so don't get too self righteous with me. "> >

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I started at 12 delivering newspapers in Wisconsin, rain, sun and
snow, to help my mom pay bills. I'm not getting self righteous
with you either, just stating a fact. Congrats you had the nads to
do so too, though it sounds to me like it was more of a choice
thing than a necessity thing.

Oh David, you little mind reader, you! Sure, my family wanted me to go to work in a Laundromat at 10 years old. Isn’t that every parent’s dream? Boy, where in the world is your little mind?

David M. said:
"putting myself through college with no family money, no loans, nor

David M. said:

federal support."> >

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Congrats. Want a medal? When did I say you have'nt (sic) worked hard?
I think many of us have. You did have the nenefit (sic) of family
support, in the form of emotional and comforting, and the knowledge
that you had a dad and mom there whenever you felt like talking
with them or sharing your life experience with. But I give you
kudos for going it alone. But I'm still withholding the medal.

Thanks, I already have a medal. But you are starting to whimper again, aren't you?

David M. said:
"And since I really don't care to know anything about the

David M. said:

photographic equipment you have...well, enough said!"> >

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I’m sorry, I thought that your reply to my sincere one sounded sarcastic, so I made that statement. But, really, after reading what you had to offer in that regard, I actually was not interested and was just trying to nip that conversation in the bud.

David M. said:
Anyway, I'm done with this too. All hail to Sir Tom and his mighty
war rhetoric, and all hail his awesome and worldly wisdom. All bow
down and worship, and stay shut-up with any contradictory
statements, because it's not fair to hit Sir Tom back with his own
ammunition.

I will accept your last statement as being one from the heart, and thank you for your sincere acknowledgements of my positions in life. But why would you ever want to use a phrase like "...hit Sir Tom back with his own ammunition?" That sounds so unlike you, David! I mean it sounds so, like, "American," and all.

It's just too easy!

Tom...whoops...SIR Tom, the "Gifted"

--

'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu

Strategist · Mar 30, 2003

You are right on target with the comments on fixing our own problems at home. There is so much to do. I do my part but am certain that more could be done to improve the situation. I don't think isolationism is the answer, but sometimes I just wish...

The Gated Community thing seems to be getting blown out of proportion in these couple of posts. They (the gates) really do nothing except keep away outside kids who are probably going to be "one-upped" by the kids who already live inside the neighborhood, but have not been brought up with the values that I was fortunate enough to learn in my small town upbringing. The added security makes my wife (and her parents living in another State in the US) feel a bit more secure, but if a "pro" wanted to get in, he could easily do so.

You are correct that we have many problems in the US and Canada, but we are fortunate compared to those who fear for speaking their minds in their country without being hanged for it. We will always have crime, and there will always be "wierdos" in the world, but leaders who do what is happening in Iraq should not rise to power.

Tom

MarekM said:
Tom Stovall said:

The gated community is really for the benefit of my family and not
unusual for newer developments here in Northern Virginia.
Unfortunately, I travel every week, so there is a bit of added
peace in knowing that my family has comfort while I'm not around.
I am comfortable "among my own," but in the past couple of years, I
take no chances with my wife and my little girl...nor should any of
those who might not be among "my own."

That is a bit of a sad situation for a guy who grew up riding his
bike as a kid and not having his family worry about who might pull
up next to him and take him or "explode a vehicle" in the vicinity.
Unfortunately, there aren't too many areas of the "civilized" world
where a parent could feel comfortable about such things.

Tom

MarekM wrote:

Click to expand...

Tom, I also have a little daughter. As much as I understand
reasons for gated communities,their spread is alarmingly sad. This
is not the way to correct problems. You in the USA and we in Canada
do not seem to be able to fix problems in our own backyards but
tackle the world at the same time. It is confusing.
I stand by my previous post and fully back coalition, evil abroad
threatens many, including naive left-wingers in Europe. That must
be tackled. But rateher than continue on, with problems of others,
we must not forget about home.
And things are not going well, for instance we have a Young
Offenders Act, that is being amended this April 1st (no joke), to
allow trying young offenders committing serious crimes as adults
only after two previous serious crimes. Police are turning their
heads. In the last few years , our government spent one billion
(yes, one billion) CAD on a gun registry program, in a country of
31.5 mln, but it took years and years to get the approval for the
first police helicopter in Toronto area at a cost of one million.
We have a lot a work to be done at home and gated communities,
however sadly necessary today, are not the way to improve our
childrens' lives in future.
Sorry for taking this so far off topic.
Rgds

--

'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu

Strategist · Mar 30, 2003

Am I past my bedtime, or did I miss something in that post by good ol' Jaus?

Tom

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:
jaus said:

Yore perspective has become a mirror you can move in what ever
direction you want, but you are forgetting a factor
Hope you will find it..good night.. jaus

Click to expand...

hmmm ... OK, good night. "Nanny nanny boo boo" to you too. Hate it
when folks start a thread ... and walk away.
Karl
Karl H. Timmerman M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

--

'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not really good.' --Sun Tzu

D P O'neil · Mar 30, 2003

Karl H. Timmerman M.A.J.D. said:
D P O'neil said:

Unfortunately I must now get back to work, be assured I will reply
to all your posts later this evening.
Dennis

Click to expand...

Well, Dennis .... (glad to hear you have a job) ... I know I can
hardly wait to see what you have to contribute to this discourse.

Evening Karl,

Just finished watching the 6-00 news, I see the yanks have found a HUGE stash of weapons not chemical you undersdtand, just everyday ammo with USA on the boxes, strange how you are no longer friends with Iraq.

We did hear a while ago about the Chemical weapons factory that you had discovered, alas this too proved to be incorrect, ah well!!.

Member said:
Harness your intellect and come up with a solution to the
Israeli/Palistinian Problem ... share with us your solution to Al
Quaeda,

Simple find Bin Laden and eliminate him, not that that will fix the problem but it will make you feel better for a while.
Oh BTW saddam did'nt do it.

Islamic Fundementalist Terrorists in your part of the

Member said:
world .

None in our part of the world Karl you seem to have cornered the market.

.. AIDs ... Cancer .... and by God, how DO you strike a

Member said:
match on a marshmellow?

I have absolutely no idea but I can spell marshmallow!!

But then I don't have letters after my name, I just know which order they go in

)
Dennis

Member said:
Anxiously waiting
Karl
M.A.,J.D.
http://www.karltimmerman.com

--
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'

D P O'neil · Mar 30, 2003

Tom Stovall said:
DP,

Once again you show (how can I say this without sounding like a
"bully?") that you have your head still firmly implanted in your
@ss. What are you watching these days, "Dumb and Dumber?"

No Tom, like most other folk around the world just watching this travesty play out on TV.

Strategist said:
Now you are against the US because we procrastinated in WWII!

No Tom , just trying to keep the rcord straight.

At

Strategist said:
least try to stay consistent in your views.

Do you want us to help

Strategist said:
prevent these atrocities or do you want us to be "hands-off." Some
of the things you are saying might lead one to believe that you are
some 14 year old, frustrated teenager lashing out at anything US.
But I'm sure that isn't your intention...is it?

No Tom can hardly remember being fourteen, The US has done many fine and noble things in it's history this isn't one of them.

Strategist said:
I do, however, support your positive views on the British support.
They are, indeed, honorable people, and I would support them with
my life as my father did during WWII.

Well being British I'm plesed to hear it, though I rather doubt the laying down the life bit.

Strategist said:
It sounds to me that you have stumbled into an area where you are
out of your league, DP. Perhaps you can show us some of your
photographic capabilities and we can get back to what this forum is
really all about?

Why when Americans either lose or can not sustain resoned debate do you resort to personal attacks. It appears to be a trait amongst many of your countrymen.

Strategist said:
And please, stop embarrassing yourself with your comments.

Well ok if you really want my lunch money I guess I will just have to hand it over, you being such a bully

Dennis

Strategist said:
Tom

Strategist said:

My what a twisted view of history Karl, you really should desist in
watching those old John Wayne movies, The world not speaking German
was largely due to Britain fighting alone for two years while the
US procrastinated about this being a Eurpean war. Next time you
feel like celebrating the fact that only Germany speaks German you
would do well to remember that if it were not for Britain then that
may have indeed been so.
Dennis
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'

Click to expand...

--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu

--
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'

MorkvonOrk · Mar 30, 2003

Tom Stovall said:
MorkvonOrk said:

Tom Stovall said:

Thanks again, David for your insightful and personal attack on me.

Click to expand...

.. ..

Strategist said:

Honesty, try to be a bit more understanding and less inflammatory
in your remarks. It makes your other comments have much less
meaning when you show such lack of control. I'm really a bit
concerned about you.

Sincerely,
Tom

Click to expand...

Talking about inflammatory:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1018&message=4700516

Click to expand...

No Tom,
not hurt in any way. Just holding you a mirror.
Mork

Strategist said:
Strategist said:

Mork

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--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu

David M. · Mar 30, 2003

" do, however, support your positive views on the British support.

D P O'neil said:
They are, indeed, honorable people, and I would support them with
my life as my father did during WWII.

Well being British I'm plesed to hear it, though I rather doubt the laying down the life bit."> >

LOL!! That was too funny. He's a real card, is'nt he DP? Oh man, I have'nt laughed that hard in a long time......

D P O'neil said:
Tom Stovall said:

DP,

Once again you show (how can I say this without sounding like a
"bully?") that you have your head still firmly implanted in your
@ss. What are you watching these days, "Dumb and Dumber?"

Click to expand...

No Tom, like most other folk around the world just watching this
travesty play out on TV.

D P O'neil said:

Now you are against the US because we procrastinated in WWII!

Click to expand...

No Tom , just trying to keep the rcord straight.

At

D P O'neil said:

least try to stay consistent in your views.

Click to expand...

Do you want us to help

D P O'neil said:

prevent these atrocities or do you want us to be "hands-off." Some
of the things you are saying might lead one to believe that you are
some 14 year old, frustrated teenager lashing out at anything US.
But I'm sure that isn't your intention...is it?

Click to expand...

No Tom can hardly remember being fourteen, The US has done many
fine and noble things in it's history this isn't one of them.

D P O'neil said:

I do, however, support your positive views on the British support.
They are, indeed, honorable people, and I would support them with
my life as my father did during WWII.

Click to expand...

Well being British I'm plesed to hear it, though I rather doubt the
laying down the life bit.

D P O'neil said:

It sounds to me that you have stumbled into an area where you are
out of your league, DP. Perhaps you can show us some of your
photographic capabilities and we can get back to what this forum is
really all about?

Click to expand...

Why when Americans either lose or can not sustain resoned debate do
you resort to personal attacks. It appears to be a trait amongst
many of your countrymen.

D P O'neil said:

And please, stop embarrassing yourself with your comments.

Click to expand...

Well ok if you really want my lunch money I guess I will just have
to hand it over, you being such a bully
Dennis

D P O'neil said:

Tom

D P O'neil said:

My what a twisted view of history Karl, you really should desist in
watching those old John Wayne movies, The world not speaking German
was largely due to Britain fighting alone for two years while the
US procrastinated about this being a Eurpean war. Next time you
feel like celebrating the fact that only Germany speaks German you
would do well to remember that if it were not for Britain then that
may have indeed been so.
Dennis
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'

Click to expand...

--
'Knowledge that does not go beyond what the generality knows is not
really good.' --Sun Tzu

Click to expand...

--
'lifes too short to drink bad wine'