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Can Oly really make the 4/3 case?

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George Sears

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Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
 
And since they did not change the registration distance... I doubt it :-( If they had made the mirror box smaller and moved the lens closer to the "film" plane, many of the wide angle issues would have been minimized. There are no advantages to telephoto assuming the same pixel pitch. FF just gets more pixels.

Steven
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/the_homeland
 
I got to imagine that cramming 6-8M pixels into that size will really limit the usable ISO that you get.

Now, a lot of people may not care about usable 800 - but I would. Of course there could be a lot of advances in improving s/n ratios - but that would also hold true for people cramming 11M into a full frame and providing really clean ISO 1600!
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
 
If the case is 4/3 vs full frame with similar pixel density, no I don't buy it.

If the case is 4/3 vs 1.6x crop, they have one real advantage. Smaller distance between lens mount and sensor will allow better, lighter, maybe cheaper wide angle lenses because they won't have to be such extreme retro-focus designs.

Since I think Canon will get us all to full frame in a few years, I think full frame will be the standard for professionals. Maybe consumers will go for the smaller sized cameras just from a convenience standpoint.
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
 
"The four thirds system is so called because it uses a 4/3-type sensor such as a CCD or CMOS. Its strongest feature is its ability to maximise.."

CMOS sensor? This is getting a little more interesting now, everyone assumed that Oly would use the 5MP CCD sensor listed on Kodaks website for their new camera, but perhaps Oly has an ace up their sleeve.
Roll on 24th June, then perhaps we will find out.

I can't wait for Phils photographic tests comparing the system to a Fuji/Canon/Nikon etc.

Chris
Noshir Patel said:
If the case is 4/3 vs 1.6x crop, they have one real advantage.
Smaller distance between lens mount and sensor will allow better,
lighter, maybe cheaper wide angle lenses because they won't have to
be such extreme retro-focus designs.

Since I think Canon will get us all to full frame in a few years, I
think full frame will be the standard for professionals. Maybe
consumers will go for the smaller sized cameras just from a
convenience standpoint.
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
Click to expand...
 
They didn't change the registration distance? That makes no sense at all! If that's the case, everyone can ignore my other post...
Steven Noyes said:
Steven
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/the_homeland
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
 
"The Four Thirds System uses a 4/3-type CCD or other image sensor"

Other image sensor? What sensor!!

Also they have shown the lens mount to be very similar (or the same) as an Olympus OM mount, so perhaps OM lenses could be used with a 2.0FIV crop if needed.

Chris
Chris Charlton said:
CMOS sensor? This is getting a little more interesting now,
everyone assumed that Oly would use the 5MP CCD sensor listed on
Kodaks website for their new camera, but perhaps Oly has an ace up
their sleeve.
Roll on 24th June, then perhaps we will find out.
I can't wait for Phils photographic tests comparing the system to a
Fuji/Canon/Nikon etc.

Chris
Noshir Patel said:
If the case is 4/3 vs 1.6x crop, they have one real advantage.
Smaller distance between lens mount and sensor will allow better,
lighter, maybe cheaper wide angle lenses because they won't have to
be such extreme retro-focus designs.

Since I think Canon will get us all to full frame in a few years, I
think full frame will be the standard for professionals. Maybe
consumers will go for the smaller sized cameras just from a
convenience standpoint.
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
 
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--

I can't predict if they will be successful or not, but there is no reason to use a 35mm sized sensor, except it is a legacy. The real legacy is now in lenses, lens mounts and accessories. But when was the last time to bought a cassette or 45 RPM record? The Olympus camera family does well in the consumer/prosumer market and if they can reach that audience who do not have a 35mm camera system, like many of us do, they may well be successful. It is not in the best interests of Canon and Nikon to have this standard take off, so I don't think they will support it until they see the handwriting on the wall; a good market for the 4/3 system and some decline in share.

Some things will have to happen - excellent image quality has to be a given, then a variety of components that fit and are cost effective, they should sign up a lens manufactuer; Sigma, Tamron, Tokina, etc. The intriguing part is the "open system" concept. Much of what makes the Internet and World Wide Web successful is that it is an open system.

The Canon EF lens system is a defacto standard, but not open, still it has a large installed base of bodies which create a very good revenue source for lenses, flash heads, and of course in the "old days" film. A concern I would have is Kodak, they are lookig for a revenue replacement for film, without the risks, risks like Fuji and Digital cameras.

Mike Bauer
 
I once liked the APS with some misleading info.
I hope I do not make mistake anymore.

By the way is D30 sensor size is bigger or smaller than 3/4 system?
Anyone knows?
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/pjuhn D30 24-85, 50, 75-300
 
One reason to have a larger sensor is based totally on physics. Short depth of field and a large degree of background blur is easier to obtain on a larger sensor. At the same f stop and field of view, the smaller sensor has more depth of field because of the shorter focal length used. Good for landscapes, bad for portraits.

There is also the issue of pixel density. At the same density, a larger sensor will simply have more resolution. So, choose the greatest density that yields good quality (noise, speed, etc.) and it is clear that the larger the sensor the better.

If I could have a cheap, compact, power efficient, high pixel density, low noise, high dynamic range, high ISO, large LCD, nearly unlimited storage digital back for my 4x5... THEN I'd be satisfied!
mjbauer said:
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--

I can't predict if they will be successful or not, but there is no
reason to use a 35mm sized sensor, except it is a legacy. The real
legacy is now in lenses, lens mounts and accessories. But when was
the last time to bought a cassette or 45 RPM record? The Olympus
camera family does well in the consumer/prosumer market and if they
can reach that audience who do not have a 35mm camera system, like
many of us do, they may well be successful. It is not in the best
interests of Canon and Nikon to have this standard take off, so I
don't think they will support it until they see the handwriting on
the wall; a good market for the 4/3 system and some decline in
share.

Some things will have to happen - excellent image quality has to be
a given, then a variety of components that fit and are cost
effective, they should sign up a lens manufactuer; Sigma, Tamron,
Tokina, etc. The intriguing part is the "open system" concept. Much
of what makes the Internet and World Wide Web successful is that it
is an open system.

The Canon EF lens system is a defacto standard, but not open, still
it has a large installed base of bodies which create a very good
revenue source for lenses, flash heads, and of course in the "old
days" film. A concern I would have is Kodak, they are lookig for a
revenue replacement for film, without the risks, risks like Fuji
and Digital cameras.

Mike Bauer
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
 
4/3's is just the size. They're not restricting themselves to any particular type. Making a 4/3's camera with a "regular" Cmos or CCD sensor would be silly now. I'd rather see the new Fuji technology or a refined Foveon Chip in any new camera.

Vince
Chris Charlton said:
Other image sensor? What sensor!!

Also they have shown the lens mount to be very similar (or the
same) as an Olympus OM mount, so perhaps OM lenses could be used
with a 2.0FIV crop if needed.

Chris
Chris Charlton said:
CMOS sensor? This is getting a little more interesting now,
everyone assumed that Oly would use the 5MP CCD sensor listed on
Kodaks website for their new camera, but perhaps Oly has an ace up
their sleeve.
Roll on 24th June, then perhaps we will find out.
I can't wait for Phils photographic tests comparing the system to a
Fuji/Canon/Nikon etc.

Chris
Noshir Patel said:
If the case is 4/3 vs 1.6x crop, they have one real advantage.
Smaller distance between lens mount and sensor will allow better,
lighter, maybe cheaper wide angle lenses because they won't have to
be such extreme retro-focus designs.

Since I think Canon will get us all to full frame in a few years, I
think full frame will be the standard for professionals. Maybe
consumers will go for the smaller sized cameras just from a
convenience standpoint.
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
--
Click to expand...
--

But what do I know? I'm just a servant to the ancient Sumerian god, Gozer the Gozerian. Keymaster

E10 - Tcon 300s - Tcon 14B - Wcon 08B - DPS9000 - RM CB1 - Tamrac Expedetion 5 - Vivitar 285hv - Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer - Hoya Polarizer filter - Kenko UV filter - B+W 25% ND filter - more to come!
 
Noshir Patel said:
Since I think Canon will get us all to full frame in a few years, I
think full frame will be the standard for professionals.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think too "they will get us there". But like a tourist in a
taxi cab in New York City, they will be driving, and we will
be paying.

That is to say, I am not 100% sure they will be anxious to get us
there via the shortest route.

Lower crop factor numbers will be thrown at us, along with more
pixels, in order to convince us to upgrade.
 
mjbauer said:
if they can reach that audience who do not have a 35mm
camera system, like many of us do, they may well be successful.
Click to expand...
Not to disagree, Mike, in fact, I agree with a lot of what you have
said, but I was just thinking, probably a lot of people that don't
have 35mm SLR systems also don't want them.

Most people would probably prefer to just have a camera they
can slip into their pocket.

So the people that have 35mm SLR lenses, will just be looking
for a digital body to fit their lenses, and the people that own 35mm
point-and-shoot cameras will not be interested in a 4/3rds DSLR.
In summary, the world is already split into two parts.

There are exceptions, and, in fact, I am one of them. That is,
bought a G2, got "hooked" on digital photography, and now
want a DSLR ... but I wonder if there enough people like me
out there, in that boat. Maybe. Maybe not.
 
I made a similar post two weeks back on the Olympus SLR forum (I thought they had something neat going on) and was informed about the registration distance thing. Turns out someone took the released images and did a pixel count on the orthogonal views from the marked film plane to the back of the lens mount. Some dimensions were published allowing the registration distance to be estimated. His reasoning was sound and backed it up with the images.

Turns out it looks to be about 1 mm closer than the Nikon mount :-( With that, I don't think Olympus has anything to sell except a smaller sensor. Nikon has this with the DX lens line.

Steven
Noshir Patel said:
Steven Noyes said:
Steven
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/the_homeland
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
Click to expand...
--
---
Something different.
http://www.pbase.com/snoyes/the_homeland
 
the whole 4/3 thing is a Joke IMO, small sensors = deeper DOF and more problems with noise, diffraction and ultimately lack of pixels

Then there's the second tier - Olympus are hoping that Fuji and Kodak will be big players,,, errrr I don't think so, BOTH companies are pretty well solidly into the 35mm Nikon mount on their DSLRs and Fuji even have a Semi-Pro one (the S2) !! so even if they DO produce cameras, they won't be serious ones as they'd invade the S2 market ..

So that leaves Ripoff unreliable Olympus to carry the can and no doubt sell the few lenses there are for rediculous money (Ever priced accessories for teh E10 & 20 lately ?? err yeah!) - they have worse QC than Sigma and worse service than - errrr, errr , I can't think of anyone that bad ! ..

Four thirds will go the same way of their useless half frame SLRs and the awful IS3000 series.. they should have built an E30 instead or stuck with consumer happycams like the 5050 and C730..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

My Ugly mug and submitted Photos at -------->
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=27855

 
The D30 (and the D60) sensor is bigger than the "4/3" sensor. Check the review for the D60 and it gives you the exact size of the sensor....definitely bigger.
Paul Juhn said:
By the way is D30 sensor size is bigger or smaller than 3/4 system?
Anyone knows?
George Sears said:
Looking at the stuff they put in the pdf, can Oly really make this
case?

For example, digital cameras
with an image sensor size
equivalent to 35 mm film have
the advantage of being able to
use interchangeable lenses
designed for 35 mm SLR
cameras. However, the images
produced are often
unsatisfactory due to the inherent
structural differences between
film and image sensors.

Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.

George Sears
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/pjuhn D30 24-85, 50, 75-300
Click to expand...
 
George Sears wrote:
and image sensors.
George Sears said:
Don't get me wrong, but I've owned a D30 and looked at the 10D
stuff, and if they are going to do better, I WILL be impressed.
Click to expand...
I don';t know about that! I had an Oly E-10 and the images out of it are as good or better than I get from either a D30 or D60 with L glass. Had I not needed more flexibility with focal length, I would still be using it.

I for one can't wait for this unit, and if it is of "best" quality as far as general build and environmental immunity, you will see some Canon DLSRs and lenses for quick sale here!
--
Joe
 
If a painter has a gas station behind his subject, he can choose to imagine a different background... :-)

Hey, trust me, with the 4x5 there are times when I wish the laws of physics (dealing with DOF) were repealed...

Sometimes you feel like a blur... sometimes you don't... (works better with the music...)
james r. collins said:
At the same f stop and field
irehound said:
of view, the smaller sensor has more depth of field because of the
shorter focal length used. bad for portraits.
Click to expand...
--
Jim Collins
Click to expand...
--
Nosh
---
http://www.blackpiano.com/noshirpatelphotography
 
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