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Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
I cannot help but wonder if the photographs taken by those dumping their D60 bodies will be any better with the 10D they're desperate to pick up...
... probably not.
... probably not.
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John-G
Guest
IF the AF has been improved, that alone is reason enough to make the switch given the new pricing. For anyone photographing moving objects the percentage of keepers will undoubtably be much higher. In other words.... yes, they will instantly take better pictures.
When I moved from the D30 to the 1D the improved AF increased the quality of my shots dramatically. But then again, I shoot a lot of sports and action.
If the 10D has AF anywhere near the Elan 7 about the only folks who will remain content with the D60 are studio and landscape photgs.
When I moved from the D30 to the 1D the improved AF increased the quality of my shots dramatically. But then again, I shoot a lot of sports and action.
If the 10D has AF anywhere near the Elan 7 about the only folks who will remain content with the D60 are studio and landscape photgs.
will the actual picture (resolution) be any better?
in the higher ISO shots, yes, but overall, they will not be any different.
the best thing about this next generation is the fact that there is more to come.
in the higher ISO shots, yes, but overall, they will not be any different.
the best thing about this next generation is the fact that there is more to come.
When I moved from the D30 to the 1D the improved AF increased the
quality of my shots dramatically. But then again, I shoot a lot of
sports and action.
If the 10D has AF anywhere near the Elan 7 about the only folks who
will remain content with the D60 are studio and landscape photgs.
i've downloaded a few and compared to a lot of my pictures, i agree that you don't get anything extra.
kinda let the air out of my tires as even i got excited about the 10D, but why didn't they increase the resolution?
kinda let the air out of my tires as even i got excited about the 10D, but why didn't they increase the resolution?
Of course not. Most people never even come close to using the full potential of the camera they have now, let alone the "latest and greatest" coming out soon.
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Scott
My 'Favorites' Gallery:
http://www.pbase.com/sdommin/favorites
(sorry, can't help myself...
Given that the $7500 EOS 1Ds has a whole 32% more linear resolution than the D60, just how much more resolution do you figure they ought to have given in the $1500 10D?
An 8MP sensor would only be 13% more linear resolution (sqrt(8/6.3)) -- although a 1.3 crop would be nice, I'll take 1.6 at $1500.
-- Lew
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.
Given that the $7500 EOS 1Ds has a whole 32% more linear resolution than the D60, just how much more resolution do you figure they ought to have given in the $1500 10D?
An 8MP sensor would only be 13% more linear resolution (sqrt(8/6.3)) -- although a 1.3 crop would be nice, I'll take 1.6 at $1500.
-- Lew
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Any DSLR beats unexposed film.
None of these images are bad focussed. Sometimes my D60 is. I just expect the 10D to focus faster and better then my D60.
Higher ISO / less noise is the other bonus.
grtz edelf
D60, 24-85 mm, 75-300 IS mm, 420 EX.
Higher ISO / less noise is the other bonus.
grtz edelf
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D60, 24-85 mm, 75-300 IS mm, 420 EX.
Noel Carboni
Senior Member
You're not looking closely enough.
There's a lot more detail in the 10D JPEGs, as compared to D60 JPEGs. The D60 images are simply fuzzy by comparison. By most folks' accounts the D60 gives you no more detail than the 4.5 MP 1D. This is one of the reasons I never upgraded to D60 from the D30.
The 10D is clearly a step up in detail capture for people who want to shoot straight to JPEG. Canon claims no less in their marketing hype - the Digic chip (containing refined bayer pattern algorithms) is the secret.
Go look at Phil's resolution charts. The difference is striking.
Now, choose to shoot Raw and apply Adobe Camera Raw to the task and the difference almost evaporates, except for the lower noise and higher ISO flexibility.
Ever shoot night football? A usable ISO 1600 is, as they say, to die for and being able to take a LOT of JPEGs will be handy for an extended outing.
-Noel
Greg M
Veteran Member
but many more. More in focus. More keepers even if the keepers don't measure up to a pro's standard.
Many more times that you will actually be able to get a shot that the D60 just can not get. Have you seen the sample striaght out of the camera for ISO 1600 and 3200? They are useable like that and I'm sure will look great with a little processing.
Yes the 10D is MUCH more capable then the D60 for simply just getting the difficult shot. You are right about the pictures not being better but it's much more important to be able to get the shot.
The 10D is a very good upgrade to the D60.
Many more times that you will actually be able to get a shot that the D60 just can not get. Have you seen the sample striaght out of the camera for ISO 1600 and 3200? They are useable like that and I'm sure will look great with a little processing.
Yes the 10D is MUCH more capable then the D60 for simply just getting the difficult shot. You are right about the pictures not being better but it's much more important to be able to get the shot.
The 10D is a very good upgrade to the D60.
M
Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Scott,
You were the only one who, I believe, read the subtext of my statement and understood what I meant. There are lots of lousy photographs being taken with D30s, D60, and even 1d and 1Ds' for that matter that have nothing to do with focus, resolution, colorspaces, or any of the other technical consideration I've witnessed discussion about. Adding a 10D to the pool isn't going to change that.
I'm reminded of my high school and college days... every trumpet player thought they needed a Stradivarius to be a good player. But the real difference between the good players and the poor ones were that the good ones understood that they needed to practice, take lessons, and study. The poor ones sounded just as lousy even after trading in their $200 Bundys for $1500 Bachs.
When the 10D arrives, it'll be all about bragging rights... that's all. We'll be inundated with scores of posts and full-size sample of -- yep, you guessed it -- DUCKS.
The problem is not new equipment... heck, I bought a D60 the week it came out and love using it. I love seeing new gear arriving. The problem, rather, is that too much of this is distracting. I'm not talking about the tired old "art vs technique" that gets discussed ad nauseum. I just believe theire's a basic proclivity for a photographer to achieve virtually the same FUNDAMENTAL results, regardless of whether they will own a D60 or a 10D. Obviously, there have been some fundamental developments in digital gear over the past 7 years or so. But these developments seem minimal now. (The D60 was a very minor evolution from the D30, and the 10D a very minor evolution from the D60.)
Simply put, the tools have been in our hands for a while now. If you're moving from the D60 to a 10D because the former didn't "really" suit your needs, the latter probably won't "really" suit your needs either.
Now, if you just enjoy gadgets, and you have the funds, by all means indulge and have fun!
You were the only one who, I believe, read the subtext of my statement and understood what I meant. There are lots of lousy photographs being taken with D30s, D60, and even 1d and 1Ds' for that matter that have nothing to do with focus, resolution, colorspaces, or any of the other technical consideration I've witnessed discussion about. Adding a 10D to the pool isn't going to change that.
I'm reminded of my high school and college days... every trumpet player thought they needed a Stradivarius to be a good player. But the real difference between the good players and the poor ones were that the good ones understood that they needed to practice, take lessons, and study. The poor ones sounded just as lousy even after trading in their $200 Bundys for $1500 Bachs.
When the 10D arrives, it'll be all about bragging rights... that's all. We'll be inundated with scores of posts and full-size sample of -- yep, you guessed it -- DUCKS.
The problem is not new equipment... heck, I bought a D60 the week it came out and love using it. I love seeing new gear arriving. The problem, rather, is that too much of this is distracting. I'm not talking about the tired old "art vs technique" that gets discussed ad nauseum. I just believe theire's a basic proclivity for a photographer to achieve virtually the same FUNDAMENTAL results, regardless of whether they will own a D60 or a 10D. Obviously, there have been some fundamental developments in digital gear over the past 7 years or so. But these developments seem minimal now. (The D60 was a very minor evolution from the D30, and the 10D a very minor evolution from the D60.)
Simply put, the tools have been in our hands for a while now. If you're moving from the D60 to a 10D because the former didn't "really" suit your needs, the latter probably won't "really" suit your needs either.
Now, if you just enjoy gadgets, and you have the funds, by all means indulge and have fun!
Mishkin
Veteran Member
Or even with $375 surplus (you can sell D60 for $1800 now, buy 10D for $1500 minus $75 rebate from ebates.com)
It's not the old "I have worse camera but I take better pictures because I'm better than you" debate.
It's not the old "I have worse camera but I take better pictures because I'm better than you" debate.
Mishkin
Veteran Member
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=4496410
When I moved from the D30 to the 1D the improved AF increased the
quality of my shots dramatically. But then again, I shoot a lot of
sports and action.
If the 10D has AF anywhere near the Elan 7 about the only folks who
will remain content with the D60 are studio and landscape photgs.
koalafarm140687
Forum Enthusiast
If trumpet players thought they needed a Stradivarius (which is a violin) to play the trumpet better, they got bigger problems!!
There are a lot of lousy drivers too - so who cares that they buy a new car?
Why does everyone care so much about "poor photographers" who like to buy new equipment - especially on an equipment forum??!!
The more things change, the more things change
There are a lot of lousy drivers too - so who cares that they buy a new car?
Why does everyone care so much about "poor photographers" who like to buy new equipment - especially on an equipment forum??!!
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The more things change, the more things change
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Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
I did not suggest that having a different camera for any reason, economic or otherwise would be "wrong".
I wondered if the photos would be any better.
I wondered if the photos would be any better.
Denialisnotariverinegypt
Forum Enthusiast
Mishkin
Veteran Member
Check out Michael's posting history. He's one of the few whose autofocus skills with the D60 might just put some 1D owners to shame. I mean, this guy shoots low light weddings with the D30/D60... IN FOCUS!!!!
jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net
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jason: http://www.jcwphoto.net
Mishkin
Veteran Member
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Michael Thomas Mitchell
Guest
Stradivari was indeed a violin maker, and is largely considered one of the finest. However, during the time I am referring to, the trumpets made by Vincent Bach were reputed (for marketing reasons) to be of such quality that they were stamped "Stradivairius" in large, cursive letters on the bell. In fact, trumpet players both amateur and professional generally refer to these instruments as "Strads".
Am I "concerned" about 'poor photographers who like to buy new equipment'? Hardly. It was a musing, and one which, based alone on the hundreds of D60 duck photos (mentioned tongue-in-cheek) that I and others have endured over the previous twelve months, I consider perfectly legitimate to share with those who would bother to read or respond. Considering that I was also once a poor photographer, and still endeavor to improve, it might even have been a musing with just a bit validity, as well.
Am I "concerned" about 'poor photographers who like to buy new equipment'? Hardly. It was a musing, and one which, based alone on the hundreds of D60 duck photos (mentioned tongue-in-cheek) that I and others have endured over the previous twelve months, I consider perfectly legitimate to share with those who would bother to read or respond. Considering that I was also once a poor photographer, and still endeavor to improve, it might even have been a musing with just a bit validity, as well.
Greg M
Veteran Member
While I don't completely agree with what he said, Michael Thomas Mitchell is one of the most helpful and considerate people to participate in this forum. What he said does kind of sound like proffesional snobbery but I can tell you based on his many posts in the past that he is not like that. I enjoy his helpful posts.
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