can't see what i'm doing wrong with profile

i'm prepared to be very embarrassed, and grateful to whoever can tell me what stupid thing i'm doing wrong here. i'm printing a courtyard scene on an R2880 with CS5.1. the walls have a decided amber cast when viewed on screen (Dell U3011 monitor). (while the monitor is not calibrated, color samples on the courtyard wall range from 175/145/120 to about 220/185/161 RGB, all of which lie in the ochre color range, so i don't think it's a way-out-of-whack monitor.) proof setup is photo paper glossy, perceptual, simulate paper color. ARGB color space.

Print setup: PS manages colors; perceptual intent, black point compensation.
nozzles are clean.
Printer dialog: media type photo paper glossy, color; no color adjustment.

test prints have a definite reddish cast in the areas that show amber on screen. (no real difference if i let the printer manage colors).

any suggestions?

So you turned off color adjustment in the driver?
Do you mean, you went into the custom, mode and turned it off there?

WIth the settings you are using, you would need to let the driver control color and just leave it on Auto.

I have R1900 R2000 R2400 R2880 PRO3800 in my print room.
Just checked the driver for the R2880 to make sure.

Since you are not letting photoshop control color, you would need to have it active in the printer driver.

If you have it OFF your colors will be wacky!

But he didn't state what ICC profile he chose in PS.

Bob p.

I think Bob P may have it. Are you selecting AdobeRGB (or AppleRGB for that matter) as the printer/paper profile? If so, then that is your problem. Both AdobeRGB and AppleRGB are color spaces not printer profiles. If Photoshop is set to manage color, then you need to choose a profile that best matches your paper. If you do not a have a custom profile, you could try the Epson Premium Glossy Paper profile.

Brian A

wooops!!!

I did not see that he was letting PS manage color
Old man's eyes!
I agree with your answer.

Folks, thanks for puzzling through this with me. to review, i've set the 2880 print settings to "custom (off). i definitely have "Photoshop manages colors". Proof setup is "custom", device to simulate is SPR2880 Premium Glossy, rendering intent perceptual, black point compensation checked, simulate paper color checked. i think that's consistent with what you were advising.

Bruce Hyman said:

Folks, thanks for puzzling through this with me. to review, i've set the 2880 print settings to "custom (off). i definitely have "Photoshop manages colors". Proof setup is "custom", device to simulate is SPR2880 Premium Glossy, rendering intent perceptual, black point compensation checked, simulate paper color checked. i think that's consistent with what you were advising.

Click to expand...

Are these the settings you were using when you had the problem or are they new settings you are about to try?

(The perceptual or relative colorimetric shouldn’t matter that much, unless you have areas out-of-gamut.)

Brian A

But you need to choose an ICC profile in your printer dialog window to print correctly.

Are you using Windows or MAC OS?

What printer?

Bob P.

I see you use a R2880, my bad eyes!

For Windows....

http://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/how-to-use-icc-color-printer-profiles-photoshop-cs5-epson.html

For MAC.....

http://www.redrivercatalog.com/profiles/how-to-use-icc-color-printer-profiles-photoshop-cs3-cs4-mac.html

What exact paper are you using?

Bob P.

curioser and curioser.

i printed the same image as an unenhanced srgb jpg on a standalone R380 (similar ink set). the r380 image is very much like the r2880 - that is, they look pretty darn close to one another, but neither of them really look like the screen.

i just painted some stripes in known (arbitrary) colors (240/220/200; 180/160/140; 2000/130/110, etc) and held the print next to the monitor. i can't tell the printed stripes from the on-screen stripes, allowing for room conditions etc.

any further suggestions?

Bruce Hyman said:

any further suggestions?

Click to expand...

Yes, print a standard test image with the settings you are using, then again with the printer managing color and PS with color management turned off.

http://www.outbackphoto.com/printinginsights/pi048/essay.html

If there is a difference, then it is a workflow problem.

Brian A

we asked a lot of questions and get no answers.

1. Did you make sure that the printer and CS5 are set to the settings that I gave you links to?

2. You haven't told us what ICC profile you choose in the CS5 print window ICC profile list. If you are using Epson papers you need to choose the correct paper in the printer driver and the same Epson paper ICC profile in CS5 when you select "PS manages colors" in the CS5 print settings window. Thus is you use Epson Premium Photo Paper Glossy in the printer driver and turn Color OFF, you should also select Epson Premium Photo Paper Glossy ICC profile from the CS5 profile list in the CS5 print window, not sRGB, Adobe RGB, etc.

3. If you are using Epson paper there is really no reason at this point to use ICC profiles until you get a good print. Just select in the CS5 print window "printer manages colors", go into the print driver and select the correct paper you are using in the Media Type list, and then select PHOTO, Highest Quality, from the Select Setting List.

4. You should print using a standard test photo, go to this site and download the Datacolor test image (Adobe 98 1.9MB Zipped JPEG), 3rd photo down. This eliminates guessing if your photo file that you are currently printing from may not be correct.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/downloadable_1/DL_page.html

DO NOT EDIT IT, even if it looks bad on your monitor, in CS5 just print it with the printer managing colors in CS5 as stated in #3 above. It should print perfect.

5. Have you run a printer nozzle check and how does it look?

6. What operating system are you using, Windows or MAC?

If the Data Color standard test photo prints fine, but doesn't look correct on your monitor, then a non-claibrated monitor is going to be your curse until you get it calibrated.

Good luck!

Bob P.

YES OP, please do exactly as Petruska has suggested!

Do not adjust the test image at all!

Folks, thank you very much for your patience working on this with me. I cannot tell you how helpful it is to have a community looking over my shoulder here. to answer the questions you've raised - I believe I am using the settings that Bob proposed. The printer profile is SPR2880 photo paper glossy, the paper is Epson 4 star S041727 (photo paper glossy, 4x6, which i am using for proofing). the images are thoroughly in gamut, but for consistency i am using perceptual rendering with black point compensation.

i did print the test image with PS controlling/Printer controlling, and i cannot tell them apart - nor can i distinguish them from the on-screen image after allowing for reflected/transmitted light, etc - the colors are effectively identical.

the nozzles were clean before i posted my first note, but i ran a cleaning cycle anyway.

I am using Windows 7, 64 bit, and a Dell U3011 monitor. The Epson drivers were downloaded this week (Epson autodetects the PC to eliminate that chance of error.)

screen shots of the setup superposed on the target image are on the following link to my dropbox:





thanks once again. if i haven't understood or haven't followed directions up to now, please understand it is likely to be ignorance rather than stubbornness on my part.
Bruce

or do they still have a color cast?

You screen shots don't show up in your post.

It is still good that the test prints are identical with both PS managing colors and the printer managing colors. That would indicate it leaning towards having the printer settings correct.

Now what color space do you use in PS, does it covert automatically to Adobe RGB or ProPhoto? You should convert the test image to sRGB and print again.

Also even though you ran the nozzle cleans, how does the nozzle pattern look, any skips.

Are you using Epson OEM inks?

Bob P.

Petruska said:

You screen shots don't show up in your post.

Click to expand...

Click on 'Open in new window'

Brian A

but seeing that he gets identical prints with both PS managing colors and the Printer managing colors, I do notice in his screen shot that the vivid magenta (VM) is almost gone or could be gone as the ink monitoring chip only counts ink drop pulses and not the actual physical ink levels in the cartridge.

That's why I asked him how does the nozzle test pattern look and if there are any skips.

If he is using 3rd party refillable cartridges then the VM ink could definitely be gone as the ink monitoring chips are not accurate.

Bob P.

Bob, it is still unclear to me whether the original problem is fixed, or whether the red tints still appear in the prints.

“test prints have a definite reddish cast in the areas that show amber on screen. (no real difference if i let the printer manage colors).”

I’m not sure how VM, or a lack thereof, would affect a reddish cast in earth tones. But it is the sort of thing that might occur in the difference between two different color spaces with similar gamut range – sRGB vs AdobeRGB, but not as far as say Adobe or sRGB vs ProfotoRGB.

Brian A

Friends, I'm using only OEM Epson inks, and work exclusively in ARGB - D200 camera, Dell U3011 monitor (it claims to cover 99% of the ARGB color space, which is close enough for me). when i began this project, I was still in decent shape on the VM, and cleaned the cartridges even tho the nozzle test looked perfect to me.
all that said, im still getting the color cast.
I will try converting to sRGB and report back later.
thanks once again.

your words tell the story. REDCAST

open Hue/Sat Adj layer > Change the Mode to Hue > Yellow > HUE +8
the red cast shows up in your Greens too.
next work in Selective Colors> Whites 0, -15, 0, -15

this cleans up the lighter colors on the wall. but watch the right side blow outs. they might change to colors you don't want.

i would add some Contrast

you have blown outs on the right side of the image. to fix that start with the original image. edit to bring in detail. put that layer under this image. then Mask the top layer to bring back blow outs.

ps. you don't have a printing problem.
--
Mike