Interesting indeed. I almost bought an x100 to go with my DSLR, but held on as I heard about rumors of Canon mirrorless. The rumors said the first release is entry-level so I wasn't expecting to be interested until they release the high-end one. But EOS M is better than I expected. I am now considering buying one if the shutter lag is good enough (and the 22mm 2.0 is as well). I will just have to buy a 35mm optical viewfinder and the EF adapter then I'm set.
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G1X vs. Eos M
- Thread starter Chuck_237
- Start date
I agree with you. I just don't fully appreciate quite what market the EOS-M is targeted at. If you attach anything but a pancake lens you might as well attach it to a body that is not awkward to hold as well and has the desired control convenience associated with larger-bodied cameras. Given these issues, it would appear that the G1X offers similar image quality that can address more shooting situations in a much more convenient package. The EOS-M would have made more sense if the G1X didn't exist.
...just my take.
Jim
Rmark
Senior Member
I can understand the appeal of the new EOS M , for those already invested in Canon lenses . I was looking for a small camera, with a large sensor that specifically did not need interchangeable lenses. ( I have a very nice Olympus E30 with some nice HG lenses. )
So far I am pleased with the G1x I picked up on EBay . So will probably make it my small/light camera when I don't want to carry the whole DSLR kit. Will also likely outfit the G1x with an ikelite housing to replace the Olympus housing for my older E410 . Just trying to save a little carry on weight and maintain IQ.
So far I am pleased with the G1x I picked up on EBay . So will probably make it my small/light camera when I don't want to carry the whole DSLR kit. Will also likely outfit the G1x with an ikelite housing to replace the Olympus housing for my older E410 . Just trying to save a little carry on weight and maintain IQ.
dnral
Well-known member
I just preorderd the red kit from Henry's in Cananda. Comes with the 18-55 and the flash for $80 more than the US kit (preorder in black only with the 22mm lens and no flash).
I have many L lenses, a 5DIII and a 7D that I will be selling to finance this camera.
I like having the 7D quality (with upgraded technology) in a small package as a 2nd camera. I will be losing some speed but gaining the smaller body that can be carried more often.
I will still have a large body that is fast in the 5DIII and will not miss the 7D.
The U.S. Canon offering is a disappointment.
David
I have many L lenses, a 5DIII and a 7D that I will be selling to finance this camera.
I like having the 7D quality (with upgraded technology) in a small package as a 2nd camera. I will be losing some speed but gaining the smaller body that can be carried more often.
I will still have a large body that is fast in the 5DIII and will not miss the 7D.
The U.S. Canon offering is a disappointment.
David
Red G8R
Senior Member
I'm very concerned with early reports of slow AF on the EOS M. That was my reason for returning the G1X.
I'll wait to try it myself first.
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Peter
Ontario, Canada
I'll wait to try it myself first.
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Peter
Ontario, Canada
If I were wanting a camera with good IQ and with a fair zoom and carry in my pocket, although it would be a big pocket I would pick the G1x. It does have a viewfinder and outdoors that is a must. But it is a slow lens F5.8 at 112mm is slow , 28mm is not really wide enough for landscapes and poor macro and is too high for what it is.
The EOS M is smaller but touch screen control outside would be difficult to operate, no viewfinder and if you add a zoom it is not going to fit your pocket. It is too high also. I have a T1i and a T2i and they are plenty light and I would like to add a short wide lens for a one lens occasion, that being the 15-85. That lens is more capable than the G1x and cost near the same price. No it is not pocketable but neither is the EOSM with a zoom. I will take the T2i and a 15-85 any day before I would buy a EOSM with a 22mm and no viewfinder and add on flash! Just my opinion but thats all anyone posting on here has, their opinion!
The EOS M is smaller but touch screen control outside would be difficult to operate, no viewfinder and if you add a zoom it is not going to fit your pocket. It is too high also. I have a T1i and a T2i and they are plenty light and I would like to add a short wide lens for a one lens occasion, that being the 15-85. That lens is more capable than the G1x and cost near the same price. No it is not pocketable but neither is the EOSM with a zoom. I will take the T2i and a 15-85 any day before I would buy a EOSM with a 22mm and no viewfinder and add on flash! Just my opinion but thats all anyone posting on here has, their opinion!
Yes, that is pretty discouraging. I guess Canon engineers don't have any (moving) kids or pets.
Carolyn,
I agree with you here. And I pay close attention to your posts since you take such outstanding photographs.
"Elegance is simplicity:" Have you seen the old research on the Barron-Welsh Art Scale, and the Preference for Complexity Scale, by Frank Barron? And the related work on creativity at the Institute for Personality Research, at Berkeley? It's ancient stuff but it would interest you I think.
Krugman
Markintosh
Senior Member
I ordered EOS-M as addition for my 5D MKII. Small second body fit very well in my bag and using same lenses as my big DSLR. With 22 mm pancake its make great small camera for days when I don't feel like taking 5D with me. I don't care how fast focus is or if it bigger than my pocket. If quality is in par with 650D — EOS-M will complete my setup
The crop sensor will be adding extra reach for tele lenses — I missed it a little bit since I switched to full frame. Also — I saw some samples on Canon.jp website — with "L" glass the result is amazing
The crop sensor will be adding extra reach for tele lenses — I missed it a little bit since I switched to full frame. Also — I saw some samples on Canon.jp website — with "L" glass the result is amazing
Markintosh
Senior Member
Marco Nero
Veteran Member
I already own the excellent G1 X. But I am also buying an EOS-M. More on this in a moment....
Since ONLY the G1 X has a lens (the EOS-M is just a body that offers no similar lens option), the G1X wins hands down simply by default. But it can hold its own against the EOS-M with any SINGLE lens you care to put forth. And it does so for several reasons:
- PowerShot G1 X:
- Manual controls
- Built in OIS (optical image stabilizer)
- Built in flash + External Hotshoe
- L-Lens image quality (yes, really)
- Flip-LCD screen
- EOS accessory compatible
- Large 1.5" CMOS sensor
- Lighter than the EOS-M if the EOS is using an L-Lens.
- 250 shots Vs EOS-M's 230 shots (with flash?)
- 14 Scene Modes Vs EOS-M (which has only 8).
- G1 X can be used under water and has a matching underwater WB
The EOS-M is really limited by the quality of the lens used on it and by the lack of manual dials on the body. If you use a high-end L-series lens (an example given was the 35L), you will get an optically excellent result, but you are immediately limited by the fact that this lens has no zoom. If you use a run-of-the-mill lens on your EOS-M, your results will be mediocre at best... Horrible at worst. Most lenses don't employ an Optical Image Stabilizer so any lenses you place on the EOS-M is limited again by the features or optical limitations designed into it. The G1X has a built-in OIS.
- EOS-M has a slightly larger APS-C sensor which means marginally better light sensitivity. But the differences are small in this regard because the G1 X uses its own larger-than-usual sensor.
I'm getting an EOS-M for a specialized application that I will reveal shortly when my camera arrives. So don't accuse me of pushing the G1 X ahead of the EOS-M for reasons of personal bias. The EOS-M isn't exactly a tiny camera body. And closest lens to the G1 X's 28-112mm (equiv) f/2.8 lens is probably the 24-105L f/4.0 which is not as fast and weighs more than the entire G1 X with its battery onboard. In fact, if you factor in the "crop", you' find that L-series lens becomes a 38.4mm-168mm which is immediately limiting.
Don't take my word for it, here's the side-by-side comparison:
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=canon_eosm&products=canon_g1x
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Regards,
Marco Nero.
http://www.pbase.com/nero_design
Marco,
I think you have put your finger on it:
The G1x not only puts a very large sensor in a compact camera body,
it puts a n L-quaiity lens in the camera.
and that lens zooms to a useful range of 112mm rather than the truncated 28-84 range of m4/3 and DSLR kit zooms.
This is an astonishing accomplishment, in my view. The trade-offs that were necessary to achieve this, such as the need to press a button to get into close focusing mode, and the modest Af speed, don't bother me at all.
Perhaps another L lens close in coverage to the G1x zoom is the Canon 24-70 f/2.8, which with the multiplication factor an an ASC sensor would give 38-112mm if my math is correct. This weighs only 2.1 lbs. and sells for only $2350. on Amazon. That's excluding the Canon DSLR camera body of course which adds another two plus pounds I would imagine. I don't own this lens but I hear it is vey good. With a case for the combination the total weight could approach five lbs. The total price could approach $5000 if my estimates are correct. The lens of course is very fast throughout the range.
I think I will stick with the G1x. Thanks for your enlightening post.
Krugman
I think you have put your finger on it:
The G1x not only puts a very large sensor in a compact camera body,
it puts a n L-quaiity lens in the camera.
and that lens zooms to a useful range of 112mm rather than the truncated 28-84 range of m4/3 and DSLR kit zooms.
This is an astonishing accomplishment, in my view. The trade-offs that were necessary to achieve this, such as the need to press a button to get into close focusing mode, and the modest Af speed, don't bother me at all.
Perhaps another L lens close in coverage to the G1x zoom is the Canon 24-70 f/2.8, which with the multiplication factor an an ASC sensor would give 38-112mm if my math is correct. This weighs only 2.1 lbs. and sells for only $2350. on Amazon. That's excluding the Canon DSLR camera body of course which adds another two plus pounds I would imagine. I don't own this lens but I hear it is vey good. With a case for the combination the total weight could approach five lbs. The total price could approach $5000 if my estimates are correct. The lens of course is very fast throughout the range.
I think I will stick with the G1x. Thanks for your enlightening post.
Krugman
There is a thread ("I just bought an EOS M" or something like that) - in which the OP does suggest this is the case. The 22mm has slower AF than the kit zoom.One more gem is the AF Servo rate with the 18-55 is 1.7 fps and the 20mm is only 1.2, does this mean the 18-55 has a faster focus?
Dave
PS and yes I do own a G1X and love it for what it is
PS - I too have a G1X and love it, and I also have an EOS M on order too (and a 60D) - so you know... different cameras, different jobs.
It's a good point - the EOS M (with a good lens) will probably do about the same as the G1X. But the fact that the G1X has such a wonderful lens is a marvel in itself. I took one to San Fran - along with an OM-D.
I actually used the G1X more as the versatility and handling was awesome - along with VERY good image quality. I did use the OM-D for low light though as I have faster lenses for that and the IBIS is great.
Regardless - I'm getting the EOS M - as realistically... getting an APSC sensor into a camera the size of a EPM1 is pretty damn cool. I see enough of a difference between the G1X and the EOS M to justify both - and in fact, it is the quality of the G1X that convinced me the EOS M will likely be a good bet for a small carry round camera with great image quality.
I actually used the G1X more as the versatility and handling was awesome - along with VERY good image quality. I did use the OM-D for low light though as I have faster lenses for that and the IBIS is great.
Regardless - I'm getting the EOS M - as realistically... getting an APSC sensor into a camera the size of a EPM1 is pretty damn cool. I see enough of a difference between the G1X and the EOS M to justify both - and in fact, it is the quality of the G1X that convinced me the EOS M will likely be a good bet for a small carry round camera with great image quality.
dnral
Well-known member
The M has a larger sensor in a smaller body. It only offers two M lenses and initial reports indicate the 22mm is a bit slow and the 18-55 is faster. You can use your EF lenses after purchasing the $200 adapter. There is no built in flash. The controls are mostly touchscreen the the screen does not articulate. The lenses readily accept filters.
The G1X has a smaller sensor in a larger body that contains a built-in lens that does not readily accept filters (there is an adapter available). The controls are external and it has a built in flash.
I had a G11 and traded it towards another camera because I did not like the inability to add filters. It focused slow at times and it was a bit large for a pocket camera and that is the problem I have with the G1X. I feel that a T3 or T4 and a pancake lens would be about the same for portability.
The M has some portability issures especially when considering the EF adapter. It is smaller than the G1X when the pancake lens is mounted and not so much smaller with the kit zoom.
The image quality will be better in the M since the sensor is larger and with the lens adapter you can use any Canon lens you already have. This makes the camera less portable when carried by itself but is becomes more portable as a 2nd camera to your SLR.
I sold my 7D (I have a 5D3) and ordered an M to replace it with. I ordered through Henry's with the 18-55 and flash for around $900. I ordered the adapter and and extra battery through Adorama (theses were all preorders).
I own many fine L lenses and I also have a 70-300 DO lens that I have been hanging on to for use with the M. My M kit will be the 18-55 and the 70-300 with the adapter mounted. For backpacking this will be fairly lightweight and will pack down while covering a long focal range. The lenses will accept CPL's which is a big plus for me.
For around town the 18-55 lens will be fairly small but still not as small as a point and shoot, but I have the Canon D20 for when this is an issue. I will wait for reviews on the 22 lens before buying.
For all of those who are against the touch screen controls, than the G1X is your camera. My G11 was a gift that I did not really want and in the end it was just too bulky for me. The comprimise in quality did not justify its bulkiness, a size between an SLR and a point and shoot.
So in the end, the G1X sells for just under $700 and the EOS M with adapter is $1,000 to $1,100 depending on the lens choice.
David
The G1X has a smaller sensor in a larger body that contains a built-in lens that does not readily accept filters (there is an adapter available). The controls are external and it has a built in flash.
I had a G11 and traded it towards another camera because I did not like the inability to add filters. It focused slow at times and it was a bit large for a pocket camera and that is the problem I have with the G1X. I feel that a T3 or T4 and a pancake lens would be about the same for portability.
The M has some portability issures especially when considering the EF adapter. It is smaller than the G1X when the pancake lens is mounted and not so much smaller with the kit zoom.
The image quality will be better in the M since the sensor is larger and with the lens adapter you can use any Canon lens you already have. This makes the camera less portable when carried by itself but is becomes more portable as a 2nd camera to your SLR.
I sold my 7D (I have a 5D3) and ordered an M to replace it with. I ordered through Henry's with the 18-55 and flash for around $900. I ordered the adapter and and extra battery through Adorama (theses were all preorders).
I own many fine L lenses and I also have a 70-300 DO lens that I have been hanging on to for use with the M. My M kit will be the 18-55 and the 70-300 with the adapter mounted. For backpacking this will be fairly lightweight and will pack down while covering a long focal range. The lenses will accept CPL's which is a big plus for me.
For around town the 18-55 lens will be fairly small but still not as small as a point and shoot, but I have the Canon D20 for when this is an issue. I will wait for reviews on the 22 lens before buying.
For all of those who are against the touch screen controls, than the G1X is your camera. My G11 was a gift that I did not really want and in the end it was just too bulky for me. The comprimise in quality did not justify its bulkiness, a size between an SLR and a point and shoot.
So in the end, the G1X sells for just under $700 and the EOS M with adapter is $1,000 to $1,100 depending on the lens choice.
David
jboyer
Senior Member
Marco Nero wrote:
The EOS-M isn't exactly a tiny camera body. And closest lens to the G1 X's 28-112mm (equiv) f/2.8 lens is probably the 24-105L f/4.0 which is not as fast and weighs more than the entire G1 X with its battery onboard. In fact, if you factor in the "crop", you' find that L-series lens becomes a 38.4mm-168mm which is immediately limiting.
Thanks Marco.
I keep the 24-105 mm on my 7D most of the time. I also have a 17-40 and a 10-22. Your point on a) the weight and b) the speed of the lens is well taken.
The G1 X 2.8 at the wide end should lead to a better in-focus/out-of-focus images than f4. It is also wider, 28mm is really closer to the 17 mm (of the 17-40) than to the 24-105, on a 7D.
Given the fact that the sensor's and lens IQ are a close match to a 7D and an L lens, one would expect the G1 X to perform quite well compared to a 7D with a 17-40. And as was noted before, a 2.8 equivalent zoom in L quality is way more expensive than the G1 X.
Marco, your posts are very informative, well documented and quite helpful.
--
Jerome Boyer
http://jeromelouiseboyer.zenfolio.com/
The EOS-M isn't exactly a tiny camera body. And closest lens to the G1 X's 28-112mm (equiv) f/2.8 lens is probably the 24-105L f/4.0 which is not as fast and weighs more than the entire G1 X with its battery onboard. In fact, if you factor in the "crop", you' find that L-series lens becomes a 38.4mm-168mm which is immediately limiting.
Thanks Marco.
I keep the 24-105 mm on my 7D most of the time. I also have a 17-40 and a 10-22. Your point on a) the weight and b) the speed of the lens is well taken.
The G1 X 2.8 at the wide end should lead to a better in-focus/out-of-focus images than f4. It is also wider, 28mm is really closer to the 17 mm (of the 17-40) than to the 24-105, on a 7D.
Given the fact that the sensor's and lens IQ are a close match to a 7D and an L lens, one would expect the G1 X to perform quite well compared to a 7D with a 17-40. And as was noted before, a 2.8 equivalent zoom in L quality is way more expensive than the G1 X.
Marco, your posts are very informative, well documented and quite helpful.
--
Jerome Boyer
http://jeromelouiseboyer.zenfolio.com/
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