THe best inventment I ever made was..

Peter Dove · Jan 15, 2003

I am afraid I am green on the issue - dont know a thing - just know Jessops card works great.

Peter

martin555 said:
Martin

Peter Dove said:

A nice featureless gray

I didnt even bother to focus it - I did know it was required - I
dont think it is actually - WB has nothing to do with the card
being in focus, only the light coming of it. I could be wrong of
course!

Peter

Chair Mike Adams said:

Re: pre white balance on Grey card, I found that you have to
manually focus on the Grey card, auto doesn't seem to work. Don't
ask me why?

Mike
--
MikeAdams.org

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ben Herrmann · Jan 15, 2003

Hey gang:

I know that folks can buy gray cards almost anywhere. Problem is that most of them are made of cardboard and eventually they wear out, scratch, fade, etc.

But I found a great place in the US that sells plastic 8 x 10 gray cards with a lifetime warranty. They cost $7.99 U. S. Dollars. Calumet Photo sells them in the US (I know Calumet has a British web site also). Anyway, here is the direct link to the gray card I mentioned. It is at:

http://www.calumetphoto.com/syrinx/ctl?PAGE=Controller&ac.ui.pn=cat.CatItemDetail&ac.item.itemNo=DT3600&ac.cat.CatTreeSearch.detail=y&type=SPDSEARCH

I bought 4 of them because you can't always locate the gray ones. When I got them I was impressed with their quality and durability.

By all means, get these...

Regards,

Ben

James Riley · Jan 15, 2003

Ben Herrmann said:
http://www.calumetphoto.com/syrinx/ctl?PAGE=Controller&ac.ui.pn=cat.CatItemDetail&ac.item.itemNo=DT3600&ac.cat.CatTreeSearch.detail=y&type=SPDSEARCH

Does it matter that it is plastic? Does it affect the reflectivity or whatever?

--
JR

Peter Dove · Jan 16, 2003

Hmm, it would have to be matt and non-reflective. I bet that it is harder not to get glare or highlight spots on the card.

I havent seen them before though, perhaps the person who bought 4 could tell us a little more about glare possibility.

Peter

James Riley said:
Ben Herrmann said:

http://www.calumetphoto.com/syrinx/ctl?PAGE=Controller&ac.ui.pn=cat.CatItemDetail&ac.item.itemNo=DT3600&ac.cat.CatTreeSearch.detail=y&type=SPDSEARCH

Click to expand...

Does it matter that it is plastic? Does it affect the reflectivity
or whatever?

--
JR

GoldenHammer · Jan 16, 2003

I love this.

GH

Peter Dove said:
in a peice of gray card from Jessops. Everytime I do a photo shoot
I whip out the gray card, take a measurement for the white balance
and it saves me so much time. And today I got the first image I was
happy with out of the D100. Happy in terms of colour and quality.
Here is the picture below.

I took it a 1/100sec, ISO 400, F3.5 at 70mm with a
Sigma 28-70 F2.8
Color Mode II

--

http://www.digital-life-21.com/forums/
Nikon D1x, Nikon FM3A, Canon S45

Timothy Schaffer · Jan 16, 2003

Maybe it's different for different cameras but I have always heard to use white paper also. It was my impression that the gray card was just to get the exposure.

ktvd said:
Peter,

The photo is superb. I'm going to try your instructions this
evening - I found the manual a bit tedious.

One question. I've heard that white paper works too, and don't use
a Kodak gray card because it is too green. Is one brand of gray
card better than another in your opinion?

Again, nice job.

Karen

Peter Dove · Jan 16, 2003

No, definatelt gray card for White Balance, at least for the D100 - as stated in user manual. Dont know about exposure.

Peter

Timothy Schaffer said:
ktvd said:

Peter,

The photo is superb. I'm going to try your instructions this
evening - I found the manual a bit tedious.

One question. I've heard that white paper works too, and don't use
a Kodak gray card because it is too green. Is one brand of gray
card better than another in your opinion?

Again, nice job.

Karen

Click to expand...

Jim Cheal · Jan 16, 2003

If I may, offer you all one of the best grey cards you can get, is always with you, and doesn't require any extra handling!

I learned this little trick from my mentor at Time-Life, and it has worked for me ever since with great results.

Next time you want to get a very good WB in the light your subject is in, then just stick your open palm in front of your lens; either hand will do, just make sure you move it around so that it is in the same light as your subject and you'll find that WB is almost a perfect 18% grey card.

I've been using this same process for over 20 yrs. now, and I wish I had a dime for everyone that I've photographed in those years if I was shooting a picture of my hand?

Might give it a try, and for those of you that already have a Grey card, see if you don't get the same results with you open hand as you get with your Grey card?

I don't know, or promise, that it will work for everyone out there, but it seems that it works for 90% of the people that I have turned on to this little trick; your milage may very!

BTW, I still bracket all my shots, even today, and I always have an exposure that I know is right on, and with the cost of "digital film" today is only makes more since today than ever.

Happy shooting,
Jim

Rick Wallace · Jan 16, 2003

Jim,

The palm works great for getting an exposure. But it doesn't work for white balance, at least not for me.

White balance is setting the camera, in a particular lighting situation, so that when it sees equal red, green, blue (RGB). If it sets equal RGB values for skin (which is not a neutral color) then the color of the scene goes whacky. Actual gray or white stuff would look skin toned, in other words.

On the other hand, if you want to get an 18% gray exposure setting the palm of your hand would be equal to that light value if you were photographing with common black and white film. (I won't get into the 18% versus 12% debate.)

A very handy gray card is not a gray card at all. I carry a gray lens cloth. You can find them online easily and they are both neutral and 18% gray value. The cloth doesn't scuff, doesn't throw shiny reflectance spots, folds to compact size. I ask the subject to hold it for me sometimes, which often helps establish rapport because they feel involved. Other times I just lay it flat and shoot it for the preset WB procedure.

Rick Wallace

Jim Cheal said:
If I may, offer you all one of the best grey cards you can get, is
always with you, and doesn't require any extra handling!

I learned this little trick from my mentor at Time-Life, and it has
worked for me ever since with great results.

Next time you want to get a very good WB in the light your subject
is in, then just stick your open palm in front of your lens; either
hand will do, just make sure you move it around so that it is in
the same light as your subject and you'll find that WB is almost a
perfect 18% grey card.

I've been using this same process for over 20 yrs. now, and I wish
I had a dime for everyone that I've photographed in those years if
I was shooting a picture of my hand?

Might give it a try, and for those of you that already have a Grey
card, see if you don't get the same results with you open hand as
you get with your Grey card?

I don't know, or promise, that it will work for everyone out there,
but it seems that it works for 90% of the people that I have turned
on to this little trick; your milage may very!

BTW, I still bracket all my shots, even today, and I always have an
exposure that I know is right on, and with the cost of "digital
film" today is only makes more since today than ever.

Happy shooting,
Jim

Baywing · Jan 16, 2003

Rick Wallace said:
Jim,

The palm works great for getting an exposure. But it doesn't work
for white balance, at least not for me.

correct

Rick Wallace said:
White balance is setting the camera, in a particular lighting
situation, so that when it sees equal red, green, blue (RGB). If
it sets equal RGB values for skin (which is not a neutral color)
then the color of the scene goes whacky. Actual gray or white
stuff would look skin toned, in other words.

Actually, just the opposite color, 180 degrees opposite on the color wheel for the overall balance. Human skin would look absolutely white, because you told the camera to assign that value to skin.

Rick Wallace said:
On the other hand, if you want to get an 18% gray exposure setting
the palm of your hand would be equal to that light value if you
were photographing with common black and white film. (I won't get
into the 18% versus 12% debate.)

Usually caucasian skin is +1 stop lighter than neutral grey in the Zone system.

Rick Wallace said:
A very handy gray card is not a gray card at all. I carry a gray
lens cloth. You can find them online easily and they are both
neutral and 18% gray value. The cloth doesn't scuff, doesn't throw
shiny reflectance spots, folds to compact size. I ask the subject
to hold it for me sometimes, which often helps establish rapport
because they feel involved. Other times I just lay it flat and
shoot it for the preset WB procedure.

Rick Wallace

Jim Cheal said:

If I may, offer you all one of the best grey cards you can get, is
always with you, and doesn't require any extra handling!

I learned this little trick from my mentor at Time-Life, and it has
worked for me ever since with great results.

Next time you want to get a very good WB in the light your subject
is in, then just stick your open palm in front of your lens; either
hand will do, just make sure you move it around so that it is in
the same light as your subject and you'll find that WB is almost a
perfect 18% grey card.

I've been using this same process for over 20 yrs. now, and I wish
I had a dime for everyone that I've photographed in those years if
I was shooting a picture of my hand?

Might give it a try, and for those of you that already have a Grey
card, see if you don't get the same results with you open hand as
you get with your Grey card?

I don't know, or promise, that it will work for everyone out there,
but it seems that it works for 90% of the people that I have turned
on to this little trick; your milage may very!

BTW, I still bracket all my shots, even today, and I always have an
exposure that I know is right on, and with the cost of "digital
film" today is only makes more since today than ever.

Happy shooting,
Jim

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/baywing

Baywing · Jan 16, 2003

is recommended by Thom Hogan on his web site. He states it is a true 18% and neutral. Good enough for me!
He also says not to use a white card......

ktvd said:
Peter,

The photo is superb. I'm going to try your instructions this
evening - I found the manual a bit tedious.

One question. I've heard that white paper works too, and don't use
a Kodak gray card because it is too green. Is one brand of gray
card better than another in your opinion?

Again, nice job.

Karen

--
http://www.pbase.com/baywing

Yves P. · Jan 16, 2003

It is the best way to evaluate Exposure and WB.

Peter Dove said:
in a peice of gray card from Jessops. Everytime I do a photo shoot
I whip out the gray card, take a measurement for the white balance
and it saves me so much time. And today I got the first image I was
happy with out of the D100. Happy in terms of colour and quality.
Here is the picture below.

I took it a 1/100sec, ISO 400, F3.5 at 70mm with a
Sigma 28-70 F2.8
Color Mode II

--
Yves P.

http://www.pbase.com/kafrifelle

Ejoy · Jan 16, 2003

This thread has sold me on the value of the card. I think I will get one and manually set white balance from now on. This Jessops thing sounds great, but are all gray cards the same? I looked up Jessops, and it seems they are in New Zealand. I am not big on ordering products from places outside of the US, and if I go to B&H I see numerous brands. Is there a difference, or does it not matter? If it does matter, which one would be ideal? Thanks.

Peter Dove said:
in a peice of gray card from Jessops. Everytime I do a photo shoot
I whip out the gray card, take a measurement for the white balance
and it saves me so much time. And today I got the first image I was
happy with out of the D100. Happy in terms of colour and quality.
Here is the picture below.

I took it a 1/100sec, ISO 400, F3.5 at 70mm with a
Sigma 28-70 F2.8
Color Mode II

Baywing · Jan 16, 2003

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=4194979

Ejoy said:
Peter Dove said:

in a peice of gray card from Jessops. Everytime I do a photo shoot
I whip out the gray card, take a measurement for the white balance
and it saves me so much time. And today I got the first image I was
happy with out of the D100. Happy in terms of colour and quality.
Here is the picture below.

I took it a 1/100sec, ISO 400, F3.5 at 70mm with a
Sigma 28-70 F2.8
Color Mode II

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/baywing

Peter Dove · Jan 16, 2003

Hi NNS,

Could you let us know how you got on with your Gray card and how it works for you in setting white balance.

Peter

NNS said:
Peter, very nice shot.
I said to myself "wow" when I viewed it. Sharp, colors pop out
at you and it is simply a really great picture.

I'm running out to get a grey card as we speak!!!!

RonA · Jan 17, 2003

RonA
CP995, TC-E2, WC-24, WC-63, B-300
Epson 785EPX, Epson 2200
Meade ETX-90RA

R C Hunt · Jan 17, 2003

Ejoy said:
Peter Dove said:

in a peice of gray card from Jessops. Everytime I do a photo shoot
I whip out the gray card, take a measurement for the white balance
and it saves me so much time. And today I got the first image I was
happy with out of the D100. Happy in terms of colour and quality.
Here is the picture below.

I took it a 1/100sec, ISO 400, F3.5 at 70mm with a
Sigma 28-70 F2.8
Color Mode II

Click to expand...

Kodak do the best grey card.
--
Richard Hunt
UK

Peter Dove · Jan 22, 2003

Just bringing this thread back to the top as their seems to be a lot of curiosity about Gray card and this thread contains a lot of info.

forgive me if I did wrong

Peter

Peter Dove said:
in a peice of gray card from Jessops. Everytime I do a photo shoot
I whip out the gray card, take a measurement for the white balance
and it saves me so much time. And today I got the first image I was
happy with out of the D100. Happy in terms of colour and quality.
Here is the picture below.

I took it a 1/100sec, ISO 400, F3.5 at 70mm with a
Sigma 28-70 F2.8
Color Mode II

Rich Gibson · Jan 22, 2003

I might add that if you fill the viewfinder with the grey card so that there's no contrast the camera may not auto-focus. Then you have to set the camera to manual focus and do it yourself.

Peter Dove said:
Yes I should have said, you are taking a snap of the grey card
under the lighting conditions you are about to shoot.

Make sure that there is no glare or shiny spots on the card though
when you do.

Peter

firesource said:

This may sound dumb, but in your instructions -- I assume you are
taking a picture of the grey card in the lighting conditions you
plan to shot photos in correct?

Thanks!

Bill
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Peter Dove said:

Peter Dove said:

How do you set the WB manualy on your D100. I read the manual
and it seemed awkward and when I tried it I wasnt sure it took the
sample. I was so easy on my E10.

Click to expand...

Hi there,

To set it manually follow these much simpler and better explained
instructions ( GRIN )

1.) switch camera on and attach lens
2.) twiddle left hand dial so that it says WB ( left hand dial with
cameras back facing you )
3.) rotate the back right hand dial until the word 'pre' is shown
in the Top LCD display ( not the one through the viewfinder )
4.) twiddle the front right hand dial until all hell breaks lose
and you have lots of flashing 'PRE' on the top LCD
5.) Look through viewfinder and press the shutter down.
6. ) This will not take a picture but the shutter will fire.
7. ) If it got a good take it will flash 'gd' in the viewfinger ( I
think on the left hand side ) and it will flash 'Good' on the top
LCD ( I think )

Then thats it your done - it has recorded the WB for you.
If you go to he white balance menu you should see that it has set
it to PRE for you too.

Hope this helps - ask away if something is not so well explained -
I have to say its a lot of jiggery pokery just to measure the damn
white balance

Peter

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter Dove · Jan 22, 2003

I might add that it doesnt need to be focussed.

At least not in my experience

Peter

Rich Gibson said:
Peter Dove said:

Yes I should have said, you are taking a snap of the grey card
under the lighting conditions you are about to shoot.

Make sure that there is no glare or shiny spots on the card though
when you do.

Peter

firesource said:

This may sound dumb, but in your instructions -- I assume you are
taking a picture of the grey card in the lighting conditions you
plan to shot photos in correct?

Thanks!

Bill
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Peter Dove said:

Member said:

How do you set the WB manualy on your D100. I read the manual
and it seemed awkward and when I tried it I wasnt sure it took the
sample. I was so easy on my E10.

Click to expand...

Hi there,

To set it manually follow these much simpler and better explained
instructions ( GRIN )

1.) switch camera on and attach lens
2.) twiddle left hand dial so that it says WB ( left hand dial with
cameras back facing you )
3.) rotate the back right hand dial until the word 'pre' is shown
in the Top LCD display ( not the one through the viewfinder )
4.) twiddle the front right hand dial until all hell breaks lose
and you have lots of flashing 'PRE' on the top LCD
5.) Look through viewfinder and press the shutter down.
6. ) This will not take a picture but the shutter will fire.
7. ) If it got a good take it will flash 'gd' in the viewfinger ( I
think on the left hand side ) and it will flash 'Good' on the top
LCD ( I think )

Then thats it your done - it has recorded the WB for you.
If you go to he white balance menu you should see that it has set
it to PRE for you too.

Hope this helps - ask away if something is not so well explained -
I have to say its a lot of jiggery pokery just to measure the damn
white balance

Peter

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

THe best inventment I ever made was..

Leading Member

Forum Pro

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Leading Member

Active member

Forum Enthusiast

Senior Member

Senior Member

Forum Pro

Leading Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Senior Member

Forum Enthusiast

Leading Member

Rich Gibson

Guest

Leading Member

Keyboard shortcuts