16MP is enough for APS-C

jonikon

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Looking at the images from my D7000 on screen and also in large prints, I just don't see a need for any more resolution beyond 16MP in an APS-C sensor. A 24MP APS-C sensor is already diffraction limited by f8, so what's the point? More dynamic range is always welcome, but I don't want more megapixels in the bargain. Are you listening Nikon?

An an cropped D7000 image.





A crop of the above image shows the original as having better resolution than that which could be printed at any reasonable size.




  • Jon
 
If more pixels gather more light you gain a lot when you downsize to 16 MP. So you could have more details and better DR and less noise downsizing 24-> 16. Another advantage is that 24 has a weaker AA filter, so a 24 downsized to 16 will have more/better details then a 16 MP sensor.

Here is an rough example of D800 downsized to 12MP vs 12MP native. Both using app. equivalent focal lengths.

100% crops







 
Goosel,

What do you get if you take the photo with the D800 at 36mp, then take a DX image size equivalent with the d800 and downsize the 36FX image to match the DX image size from the D800? This comparision would show what one gains from the same sensor that would be attributed to just the downsizing (and possibly lens).

John
 
Maybe. Maybe not. Not everyone agrees. If you are just going to post to facebook (I'm not implying at all that is a bad thing understand) then you don't need anything more than 6 mp. I'll take all the resolution I can get. Read this as well for another viewpoint:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2012/02/d800-megapixels.html
6mp works well for printing too..all this nonsense about perceived sharpness. Ctein is a classic example of missing the point.

Ultimately I would have to agree that for the vast majority resolution ceased to become a real issue with double digits..

I personally find the concept of 24mp on APS-C as marketing over substance. The vast majority of D3200 users will not even approach needing that.
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
 
This is the same line we hear every time sensor resolution increases. Who are you to say what is "enough" for other users?

Technology advances, resolution increases, possibilities increase, it's all good. If you don't ever want more than 16mp than you are just being closed minded. I suggest that 10 years from now you will be using a camera with many more than 16mp and you will be glad to have it. It's called "progress" and without it we would still be riding horses to work and using outhouses (no offense intended to current outhouse users ;-)).
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
Easy response I do not think the 24mp sensor in the D3200 is as good as the 16mp one. There is no option to shoot with small raw (one example high ISO work 24mp is a waste or card/HDD space)

The lack of small raw is a major downer for some types of shooting
Nikon will have to address this one.

Jpeg's also look poor on the D3200 for some reason
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
Why do I care? Two words: Diffraction limiting.

FYI: "Diffraction is an optical effect which limits the total resolution of your photography — no matter how many megapixels your camera may have." -from Cambridge In Colour.com

You can read the rest of the explanation of diffraction limiting at:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm/
  • Jon
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
Easy response I do not think the 24mp sensor in the D3200 is as good as the 16mp one. There is no option to shoot with small raw (one example high ISO work 24mp is a waste or card/HDD space)

The lack of small raw is a major downer for some types of shooting
Nikon will have to address this one.

Jpeg's also look poor on the D3200 for some reason
The D7000, and D3200 are not comparably placed, or priced cameras. If you wish to compare D3200 with another camera it should be a competing model. The D3200 may, or may not be of equal IQ as the D7000, but again who cares?
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
Why do I care? Two words: Diffraction limiting.

FYI: "Diffraction is an optical effect which limits the total resolution of your photography — no matter how many megapixels your camera may have." -from Cambridge In Colour.com

You can read the rest of the explanation of diffraction limiting at:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm/
  • Jon
Again, so what?
 
Pyramid Hefeweizen!
 
16mp DX and 36mp FX certainly seem to be the current limit. I do have a D3200 and am not impressed with the resolution at 100%,, but you get what you pay for. I'd like to see a quality 24mp sensor in a weather sealed body with 51-point AF. I think the technology of the sensor itself still has room to grow. As for defraction limitation, the photography where I require the most resolution...super tele nature photography...is mostly done at f/2.8 to f/4 and I certainly think my 400mm f/2.8 has more resolution to give.
 
Almost 10 years ago, I saw a poster in a university environmental science department. Around 2x3 feet (or 65 x 100 cm), it was essentially a life sized head shot of a zebra, taken by a friend of mine when he was on a trip to Africa. I saw every hair, with no jaggy diagonals.

Knowing that it had been taken with a Nikon digital of some kind, I asked my friend what the resolution of the camera was. He told me "five megapixels."

Years later, when I had enough funds to buy a (since destroyed) D40 at 6 MP, I knew that it was enough for a well-composed shot, and the rest was/is marketing gravy.

I would much rather Nikon give me 6 MP and bracketing, than 24 MP and HD video. Alas, marketing principles require that they continue to omit features like the former, so as to give guys like me something to pay more for.

--
-Tom Williams
 
I would like to walk around with a fast wide angle pancake prime (such as a 28mm equivalent f1.8), and then crop to whatever focal length I wish I had with me.

I view my photos on a home theatre front projector that is effectively 3 megapixels. So how many megapixels would I need in order to be able to crop to the equivalent of a 200mm lens? My guess is I will need more than a 16 MP camera.
Looking at the images from my D7000 on screen and also in large prints, I just don't see a need for any more resolution beyond 16MP in an APS-C sensor.
 
If Nikon or any camera maker wants to add mps without degrading dynamic range, or adding to noise, why should anyone object to it. If you don't need it fine, but why do you care.
Here's my take on this. Lets say in this imaginary world, noise, color, and DR is exactly the same no matter the MP. Wouldn't it be amazing if you could take a picture with a 18mm of the golden gate bridge, from like a mile away, and later crop so far in that you could make a 8x10 of somebody's face in one of the cars? If we had a million MP at our disposal, imagine the possibilities.

Now we all know that cropping that far in will start to show flaws in the shot, but with enough light and a fast enough shutter, we can push far past the limit of even 24MP. The only real limit is noise, because if we crop in far enough with a million MP sensor, we will end up with too noisy a crop. If we can improve overall noise performance, and keep DR and color good, more MP is always better. IF . The only other issue people could have is file sizes. I think there are definite limitations for either side, which is why they keep offering both to consumers.

I notice that the 7D is supposed to have an 18mp sensor, yet its fps is 8. The D7k for example only has 16mp, yet its fps is lower (6 if i remember correctly). This means that contrary to what I've read here, file size isn't the only factor in fps rates. The 7D has twin processors, no doubt lending to its speed. I'm starting to understand the tradeoff of more MP. Noise seems to become worse the more MP you have contrary to some opinions. The 7D is proof they can increase fps without sacrificing MP, so there must be another reason that a camera such as the D4 exists. Nikon made both the D4 and D800 at the same time, and they are worlds apart in resolution. The only explanation for this is noise. As the 7D shows, fps can't be why the D4 has less MP. They could have just added more processing power to the D800 and jacked it up to 11fps as well.
 
The only explanation for this is noise. As the 7D shows, fps can't be why the D4 has less MP. They could have just added more processing power to the D800 and jacked it up to 11fps as well.
If Nikon knew that was easy, then even the D4 would have inherited the same 36MP sensor. More processing power to process those huge 36MP RAW files to give you 200 shots battery life? are you kidding?
 

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