Yes they were, and still are. The one in the picture above is one of the newer ones which you can still buy from B&H and others. I had a Rolleiflex Zeiss Planar 3.5 and two Rolleicords with the Schneider Xenar taking lens. The Rolleiflex was one of the most beautiful cameras ever and images from it are spectacular. I think selling my Rolleiflex was likely one of the stupidest camera moves I've ever made. I like shooting and developing my own film, but to do justice to the images you really need a drum scanner. The Epson 750 flatbed I had was OK, but I always felt like I was losing IQ by not using a better scanner.
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Natural evolution, TLR, SLR, Mirrorless (MILC, ILC)
- Thread starter Aleo Veuliah
- Start date
Jim4496
Leading Member
You may be correct about the consumer grade APS-c camera, but I don't see the likes of the Canon 7D disappearing. It is a very popular camera with bird photographers and their investment in lenses is significant.
M43 doesn't yet have a decent long prime.
M43 doesn't yet have a decent long prime.
felixhsieh
Forum Enthusiast
Personally, I don't think you can simplify it so much to say "mirrorless is the future". I think it is a future, but only one of potentially many. Mirrorless has been the long awaited answer to many of our dilemmas between SLR-like quality and P&S-like portability. And now that we've seen mirrorless prove itself viable, many of us are eager to see just how far we can we can push its boundaries (hence E-M5, NEX-7, upcoming Pana pro-level MFT body; a slew of great optics, etc).
But there's also Lytro and Google Project Glass, both of which are testing new photographic concepts , ie: ways to even think about photography, by getting rid of the focusing process, or getting rid of the shutter button altogether (respectively), etc. Adobe also has demoed an algorithm that can un-blur an image blurred by camera-movement (ie: software-based IS). These are the kinds of technologies that hint at what we might see in the future.
But there's also Lytro and Google Project Glass, both of which are testing new photographic concepts , ie: ways to even think about photography, by getting rid of the focusing process, or getting rid of the shutter button altogether (respectively), etc. Adobe also has demoed an algorithm that can un-blur an image blurred by camera-movement (ie: software-based IS). These are the kinds of technologies that hint at what we might see in the future.
TrapperJohn
Forum Pro
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Probably as much good fortune as planning, the 4/3 sensor size happens to be optimal for a small but capable system, given current sensor and lens technology.
Anything larger, like APS, and the glass gets real big, while the performance increase isn't noticable in typical shooting and displayed via current methods.
Anything smaller like One, and you start seeing losses in typical photos, plus a noticable deficit in DOF control. As well, with current lenses and current control technology, making a body smaller than an EM5 or G/GH results in handling issues, especially with longer lenses, and external control issues, such as body too small for the controls that are desired - thumbwheels, dedicated buttons, etc...
This can change. Sensor technology, and bokeh in software can bring the One sensor up to parity with 4/3, in most situations. Changes in lens technology, especially 'liquid lenses', can further reduce the size and layout of lenses. Different control layouts can bring greater functionality to small bodies.
We have yet to see an interchangeable lens system for cell phone cams, and that's just a matter of time. Someone experienced in small optics, like Olympus, should partner with Apple to develop this - a series of ultra compact AF lenses that could fit a Photo iPhone. Could even add a small case to the bottom of the phone to store a UWA and a mild tele lens, they'd be about as thick as a pencil. Add the phone's big screen and controls plus extensive software options... that could be a real winner.
Anything larger, like APS, and the glass gets real big, while the performance increase isn't noticable in typical shooting and displayed via current methods.
Anything smaller like One, and you start seeing losses in typical photos, plus a noticable deficit in DOF control. As well, with current lenses and current control technology, making a body smaller than an EM5 or G/GH results in handling issues, especially with longer lenses, and external control issues, such as body too small for the controls that are desired - thumbwheels, dedicated buttons, etc...
This can change. Sensor technology, and bokeh in software can bring the One sensor up to parity with 4/3, in most situations. Changes in lens technology, especially 'liquid lenses', can further reduce the size and layout of lenses. Different control layouts can bring greater functionality to small bodies.
We have yet to see an interchangeable lens system for cell phone cams, and that's just a matter of time. Someone experienced in small optics, like Olympus, should partner with Apple to develop this - a series of ultra compact AF lenses that could fit a Photo iPhone. Could even add a small case to the bottom of the phone to store a UWA and a mild tele lens, they'd be about as thick as a pencil. Add the phone's big screen and controls plus extensive software options... that could be a real winner.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
That Leica solution to get good resolution on the edges of the sensor was really great, if Leica made it others can do it also
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
--Isn't the Leica a special case? It seems to me Leica had to put microlenses on their FF sensor for accommodating the non-telecentricy of their small optics. Otherwise, FF cameras, mirrorless or not, need a lot of glass in front of their FF sensors. As long as Canon & Nikon make lenses for either APC or FF, I don't see their lenses competing with the smallness of mFT. Granted, they could come down considerably in size/weight, but still not as carry-around-comfortable as mFT.
my CA$0.02
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cheerios from the Avalon Peninsula, Newfoundland
http://www.michael.shaffer.net/albums.html
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
Really curious about what Canon will do and howI can remember back on the Canon forum, in the earlier days, some of us suggested that an EVF and some other features of P&S could be incorporated into a DSLR 'like' camera, and we were nearly burned at the stake as heretics. ;-) And now Canon will be introducing one, according to rumours.I think mirror less interchangeable lens cameras evolved from P&C cameras. Both have more in common it terms natural and native Life View, both have natural and native video capabilities, both have similar communications scheme between camera and men.
Also bigger sensor size was not the privilege of SLR cameras: - bigger sensor could be found in P&S cameras too.
My guess is that MILC took from SLR the focus plane shutter only. Single lens camera is fine with leaf shutter, and even today little MILC from Pentax still adhere to in-lens shutter tradition
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
Yes, the TLR cameras were great at their time, and they still look good, in fact I like to see old cameras, and compare to the new ones, maybe a bit of nostalgia, but it is pleasant to see them
And remembering that people at that time do not had the facilities we have now, and we still complain about a little of noise and DR
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
Yes and also the Nikon D7000 is a popular one, I don't say they disappear, but the sales maybe reduce a bit
Micro 4/3 as the potential for birding and wildlife photography, we have some good zooms that reach 600mm and smaller ones, let's see if they will do long primes for this purpose
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
Thank you for the sites
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
I still have to see to believe that Canon will make a micro 4/3 camera or a similar sensor size, they have waited, in a way is an advantage, on the other side they are a bit late compared to Micro 4/3 system like it is now, but let's see, it is good if Canon do it, Nikon have gone into a smaller sensor and I don't see many people buying it besides the Nikon users
About brands like Sigma and Tamron (or others) they will make more and more lens as they begin to see the gold
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
I agree with that, to me the 4/3 sensor size is the sweet spot to make good and small cameras and lenses, to compete with SLR's APS-c
What I wonder is why Fuji do not have made any Micro 4/3 cameras, to me is really strange as they belong from the beginning to Micro 4/3
Smart phones is another story ...
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
What I wonder is why Fuji do not have made any Micro 4/3 cameras, to me is really strange as they belong from the beginning to Micro 4/3
Smart phones is another story ...
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
Nice use to the lens
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
I'm thinking about full fledged AF capable lens adapter: Projected Canon MILC mount -- M43.
It could make existing mirrorless cameras competition totally different
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.
My SONY R1 with APS sensor is 2lb heavy and bid as SLR.
Software based IS would be great. I do not like sensor to be loosely attached to the body.
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I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.
Quite a story about the discovery of her work...if that one person wouldn't have realized, no one might never have known. But glad he did.
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http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/
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http://www.pbase.com/madlights
http://barriolson.aminus3.com/
When I first got in to digital photography in 2008 after shooting 35mm all my life, I was a little puzzled. These amazing little sensors had replaced film, but the design of the SLR had hardly changed at all. Basically all DSLR designers had done was put the sensor where the film had been.
It seemed kinda like attaching your smartphone to a cord in your kitchen, or putting a Toyota Prius engine in a '68 Cadillac.
I wondered why, with this whizbang technology, SLRs still had mechanical shutters and flapping mirrors, and why they were still so big. I came to understand the advantages that the old SLR designs had -- better autofocus, no shutter lag, the ability to house bigger sensors, etc.
But it appears that, as those issues have been addressed, mirrorless designs -- and m43 in particular -- are finally taking full advantage of the benefits that digital technology provide.
I think that, eventually, the SLR as we know it will all but disappear, like the TLR and rangefinder before it. Not that I'm happy about that -- it's just the way technology is evolving.
It seemed kinda like attaching your smartphone to a cord in your kitchen, or putting a Toyota Prius engine in a '68 Cadillac.
I wondered why, with this whizbang technology, SLRs still had mechanical shutters and flapping mirrors, and why they were still so big. I came to understand the advantages that the old SLR designs had -- better autofocus, no shutter lag, the ability to house bigger sensors, etc.
But it appears that, as those issues have been addressed, mirrorless designs -- and m43 in particular -- are finally taking full advantage of the benefits that digital technology provide.
I think that, eventually, the SLR as we know it will all but disappear, like the TLR and rangefinder before it. Not that I'm happy about that -- it's just the way technology is evolving.
ntsan
Senior Member
Doesn't Sony have stack at Tamron? So I believe Tamron will build E mount anyway regardless of market share
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
True
Bigger sensors is no problem if they do it well like Leica did, but I think the ideal sensor size to mirror less, cameras is the 4/3 size, or a very similar one, it is the good balance for cameras and lenses
Maybe they will not end completely, maybe SLR's will replace the medium format for the professionals, but new technologies will appear, we still have to wait for a more radical change
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Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
IndeedI'm thinking about full fledged AF capable lens adapter: Projected Canon MILC mount -- M43.
It could make existing mirrorless cameras competition totally different
----
I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
Aleo Veuliah
Forum Pro
Yes for sure we will see another kind of cameras, but I guess they all will be based in a mirror less concept
In the near future we will see Micro 4/3 rising, and some others, maybe some of those others will join micro 4/3, and maybe Fuji finally make a Micro 4/3 based camera and lenses, also the thirdly part lens makers will make more and more lenses for us to use
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
In the near future we will see Micro 4/3 rising, and some others, maybe some of those others will join micro 4/3, and maybe Fuji finally make a Micro 4/3 based camera and lenses, also the thirdly part lens makers will make more and more lenses for us to use
--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
Imagination is more important than knowledge.
God always take the simplest way.
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