What camera [system] for me?

I've had a Panasonic G1 with the two standard zooms for a couple of years now. Its a fine and dandy portable system. I can take it for walks with the dogs in a small Crumpler bag and carry it all day. I take landscapes and some birdy pictures if they come within reach of the 45-200. I also take family and holiday snaps.

I've been doing this photography stuff since I started in the [19]70s with a Zenit B and graduated quickly to a Pentax K1000. Following that it was mostly Nikon stuff although all of that is long gone. Back in the day I did a City & Guilds photography [basic monochrome darkrooming, really] course and had a whole wet-process set up in the spare bedroom.

The thing about Panasonic M4/3 system that I'd most like to improve is the ability to isolate the subject from the background. The lenses I've got are pretty slow and the sensor size gives more depth of field than I'd like.

So I think I'd like to go for a bigger sensor. With the price of the EOS 5D MkII dropping maybe I could stretch to one of them, although it would be a stretch.

But maybe APSC would be good enough. I'd prefer Nikon but given the relative prices [bodies & lenses] I think it would have to be Canon. I've stood in Jessops and fondled various bodies [oo er missus]: the 550D feels light - the 7D feels lovely and the viewfinder seems better [pentaprism] but you're getting the same[ish] sensor as the 550D and paying a lot more for it. I have no plan to do movies and don't see much of a need for a flappy folding screen.

So here's the question for people who've actually lived with these cameras for a while. If I had the 5D and 24-105 [say] would I find myself leaving it at home more of the time after the first flush of new ownership had worn off because of the size and weight? I notice that a number of the ads on eBay specify that the 5D in question has never been taken outside. And anyway would a 5D be overkill for what I do?

If its going to be APSC would the 550D feel a bit toylike what with the light weight and the picture style pictograms on the dial? Or would the 7D with the 17-55 f2.8 and the 70-200 f4 be too heavy too lug about all day?

Any advice or comments gratefully received. Thanks for reading.

I lug my 5Dc with the heavier 24-70 f/2.8 everywhere. Its a brick comparatively, but honestly I don't mind it. I'm sure a lot of 5Ds were used for studio shoots, and bought by non-photographer gear collectors. Mine has been outside in the rain, snow, sun, etc.

You can shave a LOT of weight out of a system by sticking to a lightweight prime (35mm ,50mm, etc).
--
Warning: The internet is filled with one sided views. Stay objective.

What lenses do you have for the G1? You naturally will have trouble getting razor-thin depth of field with the m43 system, but they do have a growing number of fast lenses, including the upcoming 12-35/2.8 and 35-100/2.8.

I've had a 5D for about 6 years. Great camera, and takes great pics. Only complaints:
Lousy display on back
Lousy auto white balance
Slow framerate (minor for me)
Good high iso, but only goes to 3200 (again, minor for me)

Keep in mind there's no way of knowing the shutter count on a 1st gen 5D, and you're buying a potentially 7 year old camera, so it may have some miles on it!

I've also had an E-P1, which I sold in anticipation of the upcoming E-M5. The EP1 was slow in all respects, something the latest offerings from Olympus and Panasonic have corrected.

If you're doing landscape photography, practically any of the newest cameras would serve you well. If size is a factor and you still want an APS-C camera, save some weight and get either a T3i or even a 60d. I think the advantages at high iso are pretty slim with the latest sensors. If you go that route, I'd save as much dough as you can on the body and spring for a nice 70-200/2.8. Helluva lens.

Otherwise, I'd get a GH2 or a E-M5 plus a few primes, including the PanLeica 25mm, the olympus 45mm, and perhaps the Oly 9-18. You can get a lot of reach with the 100-300mm as well (that's 600mm equivalent).

If you're doing a lot of outdoors, consider a weather-sealed camera.

I can't babble about Nikon since I don't own one. When I've used a D80 I liked it a lot in terms of IQ and ergonomics.

Since it rains so much over there... I would seriously look at a weather proof system like a Pentax K5 with Limited lenses... Canon has great lenses and cameras but I would hate to have to leave it at home because of the rain... Pentax is more focused on primes than zooms than Canon.

If weight is an issue and you don't think the rain would be a problem (I just visited friends in Lancs... How would you not think of the !!! rain all the !!! time??) a 60D with a 17-55 and one of the 70-200 would make a killer combo.

The 7D apparently offers "some weather sealing", not sure if I would trust it in a downpour. The 70-200 f4 (non IS) is the only one not weather sealed by the way.

Oh and APS-C is quite adept at isolating subjects, of course you need the fastest lenses you can get your hands on.

Good luck!

Just a few comments. I have had focus accuracy issues with every Rebel series camera (XXXD in the UK) I've owned or tried, 5 in all. Although I do like the size and weight.

The mass of the body does help to stabilize the camera when hand-held, and I got much better results with a Canon 70-300 IS lens on a 30D than on a 400D.

At one time, I had a couple of Nikon D90's. I hated the menus, controls, and human interface and went back to Canon with the 60D (a very expensive exercise). This is really a matter of your thought process and that of the engineer doing the controls. If it matches, it's wonderful, if not it fights you at every turn.

I'm sensitive to the weight and bulk of my gear. So I often carry compact point and shoot models instead of the DSLR. The 60D with the 18-135 IS lens is a happy compromise. I got my first 35 mm camera in 1955, and I can tell you from experience that the bigger and heavier the kit, the more it stays home.
--
Jerry

photosen said:

Since it rains so much over there...

Click to expand...

Erm... I know that I live here, and may be therefore not entirely objective, but so far this year we've averaged about one inch a month of rain where I live. Which is admittedly on the drier east side of the country. Anyway I'd probably go out with a waterproof rucksack if I had bigger photo kit to carry.

Thanks for the comments so far. It looks like the EOS 60D might be the sweet spot. Still tempted by the 5D MkII though. If I thought I'd actually take it with me all of the time...

Well I've actually made a decision eventually!

I spent a morning last week on the shore of Derwentwater on a quick half day photography experience/course type-thing which my partner had bought me for Xmas. I used the tutor's EOS 40D together with a Sigma 10-20, a 50 1.8 and a 100 2.8 macro. All very good fun. And the wide lens and the macro both gave me the opportunity to take pictures that I've never really spent any time on before. Also the whole kit was pretty easy to carry round in a rucksack.

So... I've just ordered an EOS 5D MkII from the Canon refurbished store for £1253 delivered. Just need to get some lenses now!

Briefly I have a 5D and just acqiring a 7D. I also have a Sony NEX5N, three lenses, an evf and upgrade flash. I use the 5N a lot because it is light but has a 1.5 crop 16MP APS-c sensor. I shoot sports and wildlife. I use the Canons and L lenses for that becuase of fast lenses and AF tracking that small cameras, IMO, cannot match. So it is a mix for me. Sometimes I just don't want to carry all that heavy stuff. I like the 5N very much but only use it within its limitations.
--
DAphoto

Ripple said:

Well I've actually made a decision eventually!

I spent a morning last week on the shore of Derwentwater on a quick half day photography experience/course type-thing which my partner had bought me for Xmas. I used the tutor's EOS 40D together with a Sigma 10-20, a 50 1.8 and a 100 2.8 macro. All very good fun. And the wide lens and the macro both gave me the opportunity to take pictures that I've never really spent any time on before. Also the whole kit was pretty easy to carry round in a rucksack.

So... I've just ordered an EOS 5D MkII from the Canon refurbished store for £1253 delivered. Just need to get some lenses now!

Click to expand...

Congrats, Ripple! Enjoy your new cam!
--
Yogi

When you get down to the nuts and bolts of photography, the results depend on the 'nut' behind the camera!

See the 'Gear List' in my 'Profile' for my current equipment.

Check out WilbaW's beginner FAQs at - http://snipurl.com/RebelFAQ

Will you leave the camera at home because of size and weight? This is an interesting question, the answer for me was no....yes....no.

I came into photography in the early 70's, never bought a P&S, my first camera was Konica SLR T3. This camera by today's standards was larger and heavier, all metal - no plastic. And lenses could be heavier back then. I also owned a Canon SLR - 10s which again is larger and I would take it anywhere.

Then I got into the Rebel series; I bought the first Rebel and it was the Original Digital, the largest of the Rebel's made so far. The next camera was the Xsi and then I got into a smaller profile. I bought the battery pack and ended up taking it off as I preferred the smaller profile and weight of the camera.

I then purchased the 5D 2 and I will take it anywhere. My take is that if you are having fun with a camera, you'll use it.

Will you leave your camera and lens at home? Well the kit lens for the 5D series is heavier so you just might. But here is what I do and I just recommended another photographer here to try out. I divide my lenses (I have 9) into my "serious" lenses, which generally are heavier and my lighter travel (and muck about) lenses which are lighter.

If you find your camera and lens is to heavy consider getting a lighter "do all" travel lens which will make your gear more "travel friendly." Or a couple of lens travel (and muck about) series of lenses, something like the Canon 35mm f2.0, the Canon 50mm f1.8 (preferably mk 1 version - can only buy used), and maybe one lighter zoom.

I must confess a slight bias to FF cameras, though I still use all three bodies I own. The Original is my rail fan camera (not tragic if I trip and break it - a reality in some areas you go to rail fanning), my Xsi is my official travel camera (most of the time), and my 5D 2 for serious photography, night street photography, night urban scaping photos, macro's, etc.

--
"Photography is, indeed, an inclusive language."
Ansel Adams

Ripple said:

If I had the 5D and 24-105 [say] would I find myself leaving it at home more of the time after the first flush of new ownership had worn off because of the size and weight?

Any advice or comments gratefully received. Thanks for reading.

Click to expand...

If you're walking around, put a light prime like a 50mm 1.4 on that 5D and enjoy it! Or a 7D with the 35mm 2.0. With the small prime on there, either of those two cameras are only slightly heavier and bigger than a fat compact super zoom.

The longest I've ever walked was nearly 7 miles (night time Vegas strip back and forth), shooting and carrying the 7D, 24-105, 70-200 2.8 and Macbook Pro 15" (in a Crumpler shoulder bag). I enjoyed it! Not a problem, next morning did the same walk in the day time.

So this is the next question. What lenses to start with? One vote for the 50 1.4 so far.

I need a general town & country walking around lens, something for low light and something that I can use for middle distance birds & wildlife. And I need to be able to carry this stuff around. Could I start with the 24-105 and the 70-200 IS f4, do you think? Is f4 going to be bright enough long-term? And after a while will I want something wider than 24? Should I investigate the 2x adapter with the 70-200, or just buy a 70-300 in the first place? Have many people abandoned zooms and moved to primes? Should I go for (say) the 28 1.8, a 50 (which one?) and the 100 macro?

Lot of questions I know but I'd really appreciate a range of views and reasoning.

(Should this thread be in the 5D forum now? And is there anybody who could move it for me, please?)

Why not start with one lens and play around with it taking hundreds if not more images, as you do that, what you "need" will become clearer. If you have to ask what lens you need next, you don't need it.

I don't know what camera you are settling on but if the 5D and 24 - 105, shot away and where you need another lens will become apparent. I take pics of wineries and vineyards so I like a wide angle, but realistically I don't need anything below 18mm.

I have longer lenses but I'm embarrassed how little I have used them. For "me," 99% of my shots are between 19mm and 128 mm.

Zooms versus primes. If you start out with the 24 - 105, the only reason you'll want primes in that range is for speed - fast lenses - for low light. How much low light do you shoot now, and if you don't currently, how much do you plan to in the future? You may never need a fast lens. The most purchased, least used lens, is the Canon 50mm f1.8!

I shoot a lot of low light so faster lenses are important to me.

Burrard Street Bridge, Vancouver: [5D 2 and Sigma 50mm f.4]



Night street photography - Granville Street: [5D 2 and Sigma 50mm f1.4]



--
"Photography is, indeed, an inclusive language."
Ansel Adams

I think you'll really enjoy it.

The reconditioned 5D arrived this morning. Box was a bit tatty but camera clean and all bits present.

Went out and v bought a 24-105 L f4. One word: Wow!

Should've done this a very long time ago!

Have fun and don't forget to share some pics!