70-200mm L IS f2.8 II v f4 for bokeh

I found myself in a similar position recently. I received an unexpected bonus at work and at the urging of my wife, I decided to use it to get something I'd normally not buy (because I'm Scottish). I decided to buy a 70-200. Then came the agonizing part of deciding which.

Two years ago I decided to rent a 70-200 f4 IS for a trip to see my younger son and his family in Silver Spring, MD. I took family portraits and candids of my grandson. I have a 70-300 f 4-5.6 IS which is a pretty good lens. I wasn't prepared for how much better the 70-200 is! I sent the RAW files to my son, who also has Canon equipment and he called me and said "You need to buy that lens now!"

Once the dream turned into a possible reality, I started to decide between the f4 IS or for about the same money, the f 2.8 non-IS. I went with the f2.8. Here's why:

I wanted the lens mainly for portrait outdoors. I don't mind using a tripod, since I came from medium format film. Before I decided, I revisited the files. The bokeh of the f4 is really nice, but I had seen photos of others with the 2.8 and I thought it has a slight edge. I discovered that while the IS did indeed help with camera shake at lower shutter speeds handheld, it of course couldn't compensate for subject movement. I decided the ability in some circumstances to shoot at 1/125 @ f2.8 was more important to me than being able to shoot at 1/60 @f4 with IS.

Even though I bought the 2.8, I would have been happy with the f4. They are both great lenses. Here's a photo with the 2.8, shot at 198mm, f2.8, 1/250:

 
To me, if truth be told, the f4 IS is little more than a slow alternative to the 70-200f2.8L IS II for consideration only if the budget won't stretch.
Weight and size is the most important consideration for me since I do most of my shooting when I travel. The f/2.8 would have stayed home most of the time.
 
I bought a 70-200 f/2.8L IS II lens recently, then found a used 70-200 f/4L IS lens for a good price, and had to decide if the advantages of the f/2.8 vs the f/4 (better in low light) offset the disadvantages (double the cost, much heavier, much bigger).

For my use (mostly landscapes with some portraits) I decided that the f/4 was the better option. The money I've saved will go toward a prime, probably the Canon 85 f/1.8 lens.

That may not be the best combination for you, but it should work for me.
 
I just posted four photos online at my flickr link (below) of the 70-200mmL/4 IS WITH the 1.4x II tele-extender , which I just bought (used). The 1.4x II works with AF and IS on the f4 lens. The 2x II tele-extender doesn't auto focus (not sure about how IS works) on the f/4 but DOES on the f/2.8 lens 70-200mmL. The 1.4x doesn't add much weight or length to the lens; the 2x II is quite a bit heavier.



Large sizes and full EXIF & settings/processing details online.

I was pleased with a CROP from the 70-200mmL/4 IS with 1.4x II I just took this morning, hand-held at that (well, seated in a lawn chair)

Most of my other 5DII florals online are with the 70-200mmL/4 IS (Helleborus for example, you can see some bokah in those). See my 5DII set.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
 
I just posted four photos online at my flickr link (below) of the 70-200mmL/4 IS WITH the 1.4x II tele-extender , which I just bought (used). The 1.4x II works with AF and IS on the f4 lens. The 2x II tele-extender doesn't auto focus (not sure about how IS works) on the f/4 but DOES on the f/2.8 lens 70-200mmL. The 1.4x doesn't add much weight or length to the lens; the 2x II is quite a bit heavier.



Large sizes and full EXIF & settings/processing details online.

I was pleased with a CROP from the 70-200mmL/4 IS with 1.4x II I just took this morning, hand-held at that (well, seated in a lawn chair)

Most of my other 5DII florals online are with the 70-200mmL/4 IS (Helleborus for example, you can see some bokah in those). See my 5DII set.
Best regards, Sandy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann
HI Sandy, thanks for posting those images, I'm very impressed. Today I got me the f4 and a 5D mkII at Focus On Imaging so I'm just sat watching the battery charge up!

Thanks,

--
Phil
 
I found myself in a similar position recently. I received an unexpected bonus at work and at the urging of my wife, I decided to use it to get something I'd normally not buy (because I'm Scottish). I decided to buy a 70-200. Then came the agonizing part of deciding which.

Two years ago I decided to rent a 70-200 f4 IS for a trip to see my younger son and his family in Silver Spring, MD. I took family portraits and candids of my grandson. I have a 70-300 f 4-5.6 IS which is a pretty good lens. I wasn't prepared for how much better the 70-200 is! I sent the RAW files to my son, who also has Canon equipment and he called me and said "You need to buy that lens now!"

Once the dream turned into a possible reality, I started to decide between the f4 IS or for about the same money, the f 2.8 non-IS. I went with the f2.8. Here's why:

I wanted the lens mainly for portrait outdoors. I don't mind using a tripod, since I came from medium format film. Before I decided, I revisited the files. The bokeh of the f4 is really nice, but I had seen photos of others with the 2.8 and I thought it has a slight edge. I discovered that while the IS did indeed help with camera shake at lower shutter speeds handheld, it of course couldn't compensate for subject movement. I decided the ability in some circumstances to shoot at 1/125 @ f2.8 was more important to me than being able to shoot at 1/60 @f4 with IS.

Even though I bought the 2.8, I would have been happy with the f4. They are both great lenses. Here's a photo with the 2.8, shot at 198mm, f2.8, 1/250:
Hey that's good going getting a bonus in this day and age! Great cat shot, thanks for posting. I was at Focus On Imaging today and got change to handle both lenses on the Canon stand. They both have a good solid feel but I found I was getting decent bokeh just pointing the f4 it at people in the crowd and it is so much lighter and therefore likely to be used rather than gathering dust at home.

So I go the f4.

Cheers,

Phil

--
Phil
 
I bought a 70-200 f/2.8L IS II lens recently, then found a used 70-200 f/4L IS lens for a good price, and had to decide if the advantages of the f/2.8 vs the f/4 (better in low light) offset the disadvantages (double the cost, much heavier, much bigger).

For my use (mostly landscapes with some portraits) I decided that the f/4 was the better option. The money I've saved will go toward a prime, probably the Canon 85 f/1.8 lens.

That may not be the best combination for you, but it should work for me.
That's what I decided today, and put the difference towards a 16-35mm L and got the f4!

Cheers,
--
Phil
 
I completely understand your decision. It was nice that you got to compare side by side. I hope you get some great photos with it for many years to come.

The obligatory cat shot is Francis, the rescue cat. She was abandoned at the apartment complex next to our church, St. Francis. She had taken to rushing in the apartments of people with pets and fighting their pets for food. Animal control was to come out the next day, but our rector brought her to church hoping she could find a home. She's much calmer and pudgier now.
 
Weight and size is the most important consideration for me since I do most of my shooting when I travel. The f/2.8 would have stayed home most of the time.
Yep, weight of the 2.8 is almost double (1490g vs 760g). Ditto for the travel consideration. With 2 bodies and other heavy lenses, that matters. I personally would like to have both lenses eventually. I love my 4.0, and for much of my work (in the wilderness or in urban situations, or anytime I walk a LOT) the 4.0 is way better for me. When shooting performers on (indoor) stages, I do wish I had the 2.8 at times. I just got myself a new 5d3, so I plan to wait a while.
 
They both have a good solid feel but I found I was getting decent bokeh just pointing the f4 it at people in the crowd and it is so much lighter and therefore likely to be used rather than gathering dust at home.
I have similar experience - with video equipment. I have invested over $15,000 in video equipment and the camera I use most is my Flip- because it's the smallest and lightest and I take it everywhere. I take my 4.0 many places I wouldn't take a 2.8 (if I had one.)

I started reading this thread thinking I would probably get a 2.8, but I'll probably stick to my 4.0 for now. Maybe forever. Well, at least until I die. OR, as I mentioned before, just have both.
 
best of both worlds that way. 70-200 f4 IS for versatility, travel etc & 135mm f2 for bokeh and speed. If you dont mind manual focus, you could probably also add Rokinon 85mm 1.4 & still be under 2.8 IS price.

The 2.8 IS was out of my price range, so went with f4 IS, 1,4II tele & a Rokinon 85mm 1.4 & later on picked up a mint 2nd hand 200 2.8L.

In hindsight for me, perhaps the 70-300L might have been a better fit than the 70-200 f4 IS & 1.4 tele
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdaggar/

 
I am going through a similar situation (to get a 70-200mm lens) and leaning towards the F2.8 non-IS version (IS Mark II is out of my price range).

To add additional variables, I am evening thinking of getting Sigma 70-200 OS version which is almost at the same price as Canon non-IS, but I will be getting the stabilization. However, since it is Sigma, I am still debating which one to get !!

-Madhu
I found myself in a similar position recently. I received an unexpected bonus at work and at the urging of my wife, I decided to use it to get something I'd normally not buy (because I'm Scottish). I decided to buy a 70-200. Then came the agonizing part of deciding which.

Two years ago I decided to rent a 70-200 f4 IS for a trip to see my younger son and his family in Silver Spring, MD. I took family portraits and candids of my grandson. I have a 70-300 f 4-5.6 IS which is a pretty good lens. I wasn't prepared for how much better the 70-200 is! I sent the RAW files to my son, who also has Canon equipment and he called me and said "You need to buy that lens now!"

Once the dream turned into a possible reality, I started to decide between the f4 IS or for about the same money, the f 2.8 non-IS. I went with the f2.8. Here's why:

I wanted the lens mainly for portrait outdoors. I don't mind using a tripod, since I came from medium format film. Before I decided, I revisited the files. The bokeh of the f4 is really nice, but I had seen photos of others with the 2.8 and I thought it has a slight edge. I discovered that while the IS did indeed help with camera shake at lower shutter speeds handheld, it of course couldn't compensate for subject movement. I decided the ability in some circumstances to shoot at 1/125 @ f2.8 was more important to me than being able to shoot at 1/60 @f4 with IS.

Even though I bought the 2.8, I would have been happy with the f4. They are both great lenses. Here's a photo with the 2.8, shot at 198mm, f2.8, 1/250:

 
I am glad that a lot of people are going through the same phase as myself on these types of lens choices :)

I got the 85mm F1.8 lens and thinking of getting the 70-200mm F2.8 lens. While I liked the F4 IS version (what not to like about that !!), the ability to shoot in dimly lit indoor is pushed me towards the F2.8.

-Madhu
best of both worlds that way. 70-200 f4 IS for versatility, travel etc & 135mm f2 for bokeh and speed. If you dont mind manual focus, you could probably also add Rokinon 85mm 1.4 & still be under 2.8 IS price.

The 2.8 IS was out of my price range, so went with f4 IS, 1,4II tele & a Rokinon 85mm 1.4 & later on picked up a mint 2nd hand 200 2.8L.

In hindsight for me, perhaps the 70-300L might have been a better fit than the 70-200 f4 IS & 1.4 tele
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdaggar/

 
Ditto on the impressive images. Congrats on your investment, Phil.
Thanks Dattagroover, I'm enjoying it a LOT. It's my walkaround lens right now whilst I await reviews on the Tamron 24-70 IS.

Cheers,
--
Phil
 
I have owned both of these lenses for years (bought both of them when each was initially offered) and I use them interchangeably (sometimes side by side). Use is primarily on a 7D (but also a 40D). Lenses are 70-200 f/4 IS and 70-200 f/2.8 IS II. After much usage (including extensive testing of the bokeh and AF capabilities) my observation is there are a lot of misrepresentations and exaggerations about the differences between these two lenses on this forum.

I'll detail these misunderstandings in the next post.

--
Mike Mullen
 
Very close? I would think not. The resolution of the 70-200f4IS is quite poor (i.e. zero) at f2.8, f3.2 & f3.5. It does not generate any decent background blur unless the subject is a good distance from the background and the focal length is approaching 200mm. Virtually useless for this purpose near the 70mm end.
Simply not true. After extensive bokeh testing at different focal lengths and distances my observation is that while the f/2.8 provides slightly more background blur at equal distance/focal length, the difference is very small and would rarely, if ever, change the character of the shot enough to make or break the image. Either it's a good image or it's not. The difference in amount of blur between f/2.8 and f/4 at these focal lengths is quite small to my eye.
The f2.8LIS II has no such limitations. This apart, the f2.8 gives a brighter viewfinder and activates additional sensitivity in the AF system.
Wow, not true. The f/2.8 (like all lenses) has limitations. They are just one stop less. And this extra stop comes at the trade-off of slightly less depth of field (which is often precious at these focal lengths, particularly for close facial shots, shots at 200mm and any shot that is taken at close range). I often shoot my 70-200 f/2.8 IS II at f/4 when I want a little less blur on the portions of my subject that are different distances. I've never liked the look of eyes in focus, end of nose blurred. It can make peoples nose look larger than it is. Very unflattering. I also like to shoot tightly framed images of enthused dogs running toward (and looking at) the viewer. For maximum impact, it's important to get the entire face in focus so f2.8 is often not the best solution.

Brighter viewfinder? LOL! The difference is barely (if at all) detectable. This is true whether comparing f/2.8 to f/4 in full daylight or in the dimmest room imaginable. I've done the comparison on my 7D and my 40D, almost no difference. The reason why gets into the optical properties of the viewfinder systems on our DSLR's. Namely that the viewscreens are not ground glass but instead are primarily sensitive to light coming from the center of the image cone and have very little sensiitivity to light coming from the portion of the lens between f/2.8 and f/4. In the real world the f/2.8 has no advantage in terms of viewfinder brightness.

Additional sensitivity in the AF system? Only if you believe Canon's marketing hyperbole. Don't misunderstand, I have great respect for Canon but their marketing department knows how to portray a small technical truth as if it were some kind of important difference in the real world.

I've done extensive testing over three days exploring the difference in AF between these two lenses. They are both exceptional in both speed and accuracy of AF. In the real world you will not notice any advantage of one over the other (either in terms of speed or accuracy). In fact, the f/4 IS is actually MORE capable in speed AND accuracy than the older 70-200 f/2.8 IS (version I). The misconception comes from Canon's claim that f/2.8 lenses are required to activate the higher precision AF sensors typically found at the center AF point. What they do not tell you is that these higher precision sensors cannot function at low light levels or on subjects lacking clear contrast. And, when the high precision sensors can't get a measurement, the system reverts to the same regular precision sensors all lenses use. Under bright light conditions with good target contrast there is a tiny accuracy advantage of the center AF point when used with f/2.8 lenses but the difference requires extreme pixel peeping and many shots to notice the statistically slightly better performance. Any lack of accuracy of the f/4 lens is almost irrelevant (because of the slightly greater depth of field of f/4 compared to f/2.8). In other words, when the conditions are such that you are likely to have a lower AF hit rate, both lenses are using the same AF sensors. This includes all shots taken in Servo AF mode, even under good lighting conditions, because the higher precision AF point requires an extra step and Servo AF does not allow enough time for the use of the HP AF sensor.

I've published the results here on DPR of the testing that supports the above conclusions. These are the type of misrepresentations that can be put to rest when one actually bothers to spend time with both lenses in question rather than just repeating "common sense wisdom".
To me, if truth be told, the f4 IS is little more than a slow alternative to the 70-200f2.8L IS II for consideration only if the budget won't stretch.
Not true, having both lenses shows me I prefer the 70-200 f/4 IS 90% of the time (even though my copy of the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II is marginally sharper at f/4 than it's f/4 IS brother). This difference is so tiny it requires extreme pixel peeping to see. However, with both lenses wide open, the difference is reversed and more apparent, the f/4 IS is sharper. But that's not why I tend to prefer the f/4 IS. The f/4 IS just has a little better color and contrast (particularly when my subject is backlit) and, being smaller and lighter provides better handling and makes it easier to get the shot. I only reach for the f/2.8 IS II when I know I'll want to shoot at f/2.8 or I'll be making extensive use of the 2X TC to shoot out to 400mm.
My advice to the OP is to buy the f2.8L IS II. Costs more and weighs a little more but is a much better lens.
Not "much better". Much more expensive, yes. Able to shoot at f/2.8, yes. Much better, not really. The ONLY advantage of the f/2.8 is it's one stop advantage (which for some applications is enough to justify it's cost and weight). But it's not a BETTER lens, for me the "better lens" is the one I reach for 90% of the time.

--
Mike Mullen
 

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