Help me figure out what I need. Please!

I know you get this question repeatedly. I've read a million posts, articles, advice, reviews and I'm overwhelmed! I would like to get some straight forward opinions from you to add to the mix. I don't have big $$ to spend on my first dslr. Budget of about $800-900. I know, it's not much but I'm dang proud to have it right now. My pics will fall into two basic areas: 1) photos of the kids at close range 2) sports- they are involved in dance, soccer, softball, track, volleyball and basketball. I know, sports is the hardest and most expensive to photograph.

I'm leaning towards a Canon but a Nikon isn't out. How would YOU configure this? Camera? Lens? Where would you buy it? I'm not too picky. I don't need extra gadgets and gimmicks. I just want nice pictures and something I can learn on and expand. I had a Minolta slr back in the pre-digital days and loved it. It was just the stock camera and kit lens. It was great for kid pics but that was before they were involved in sports.

Help? And thank you!

Carrie

Step 1: Canon and Nikon are very similar and excellent. Any tradeoff is very minor. If you liked Minolta, also consider Sony which uses the Minolta lens mount. Consider kits with the "two lens" combo - the 18-55 and 55-200 (or thereabouts). Much more preferable to the inferior 18-135 lenses.

Step 2: After figuring out what is in your price range, go to a store and hold/handle/operate each one. If this is a small time shop who is friendly, isn't pushy, and really goes out of their way to help you out, you can now buy from them. If its a big box retailer (Worst Buy, etc), go home and fire up your internet browser.

Step 3: Purchase. For the Internet, STAY AWAY from no-name outfits, especially on eBay. Buy from some well respected merchants: B&H, Adorama, Amazon.com

Step 4: Buy a book or read tutorials on exposure, composition for some ground rules. Practice, take pictures (don't be afraid to, your camera is not going to "wear out"). Be critical of yourself. Find pictures you like, try to emulate them yourself. Do not be afraid of breaking the rules, some absolutely excellent pictures come out that way

Step 5: After awhile, you would have figured out what is holding you back in your photography equipment wise. Only then consider purchasing something to fill that gap. But never purchase something assuming it will make you better - purchase something which allows you to do more. Enter Lens Buying Addiction
--
Warning: The internet is filled with one sided views. Stay objective.

Both Canon and Nikon make fine cameras in the categories that you are probably looking at. Frankly, anyone who tells you that one brand is objectively better than the other is probably mostly biased because they own the one they are recommending. So don't worry much at all about the brand.

If you go with Canon... (and if not, some of this advice could be useful for a Nikon choice, too.)...

• Since money is a concern, don't feel like you need to get everything all at once. You can get the right stuff to get started now, shoot a lot, and then start to think more about what your experience tells you about what other gear you might (or might not) need.
• Keep in mind that there will be some other expenses that are bound to crop up. You'll probably want some sort of bad to carry your equipment. You'll need to purchase at least one memory card for the camera.
• If you look at Canon, something in the "Rebel" series is almost certain to be right for you at this point. These cameras are designed of the sort of person you describe yourself to be - a first-time DSLR buyer who probably mostly will shoot family stuff - events, vacations, and kid's sports. I recently went through this decision process for someone I know who is in a similar situation, and she decided on the t2i. While there are a couple of less-expensive models and one more expensive "Rebel," this one comes at a very nice price, can produce image quality as good as that of the 7D.
• If you can convince yourself to do this, start with just the EFS 18-55mm IS kit zoom lens . (Don't listen to anyone who tells you to start with a prime!) This is a quite decent lens and it only adds $100 to $150 to the price of the camera. It is a fine lens for starting out - and by shooting a few thousand frames with it you'll better understand your needs when it comes to considering more lenses later on.
• If you are absolutely certain that you need a telephoto zoom right off the bat, the EFS 55-250mm lens is a good, inexpensive option that will work fine for your sports photographs as long as you are shooting outdoors. I do not necessarily recommend that you get this immediately, and you can always get it later, too.
• Generally avoid "kits" that add a bunch of small options to a bundle. Many of the options may be of low quality and/or unnecessary.

Good luck!

Dan

CarrieT said:

I know you get this question repeatedly. I've read a million posts, articles, advice, reviews and I'm overwhelmed! I would like to get some straight forward opinions from you to add to the mix. I don't have big $$ to spend on my first dslr. Budget of about $800-900. I know, it's not much but I'm dang proud to have it right now. My pics will fall into two basic areas: 1) photos of the kids at close range 2) sports- they are involved in dance, soccer, softball, track, volleyball and basketball. I know, sports is the hardest and most expensive to photograph.

I'm leaning towards a Canon but a Nikon isn't out. How would YOU configure this? Camera? Lens? Where would you buy it? I'm not too picky. I don't need extra gadgets and gimmicks. I just want nice pictures and something I can learn on and expand. I had a Minolta slr back in the pre-digital days and loved it. It was just the stock camera and kit lens. It was great for kid pics but that was before they were involved in sports.

Help? And thank you!

Carrie

Click to expand...

--
---
G Dan Mitchell - SF Bay Area, California, USA
Blog & Gallery: http://www.gdanmitchell.com/
Google Plus: https://plus.google.com/u/0/102554407414282880001/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/gdanmitchellphotography
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdanmitchell/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/gdanmitchell

Very good advice so far, not sure I can add much. The big camera makers all are pretty competitive and all offer fine products. What it really boils down to is how each camera feels in your hands.

You might also consider refurbished cameras. I got a 5DII directly from Canon a few weeks ago and it seems brand new. If you have an old broken Canon digital camera (point and shoots are best) you can get a discount on most refurbs through the Canon Loyalty program, (though I was bummed to hear that the 5DII was not part of it...) You have to call Canon directly to order. If you do a google search, you'll find some info on price estimates on cameras through the CLP.

If you go Canon, I think one of the T2i kits are a pretty good value and would be roughly in your price range.

Good luck and have fun shooting!

You've got a good goal: > I just want nice pictures and something I can learn on and expand

And a pretty good handle on some of the concepts, i.e. sports is hard to shoot and expensive.

About "realize." Have you given any thought to the computer operations after you take the photos?

In the old film days, automated machinery corrected color, perhaps made some contrast adjustments, and took care of nudging exposures that were a little over or under.

Now your choice is to make these adjustments yourself using software like Photoshop Elements, or relying on automation at print shops to do this for you.

Add another $100 to your budget.

I'm a big fan of the Canon T3i because of its twisty back, whichis very handy for movie making.

Otherwise the T2i already suggested is a great choice, too.

See how close the 18-55 and 55-250mm two-lens package meets your budget.

And a 370EX of 430EX flash is a great idea. For a lot of party pix, it will be more useful to have a flash than to have the 55-250 telephoto. for outdoor sports, it's reversed, with the telephoto zoom being more useful;.

Nikon has excellent choices, too.

There's a lot to be said for oging to the store and handling a Nikon 5100 and a Canon T3i and buying the one that feels best.

BAK

Like the others. I agree with the advice provided. And, as much respect as I have for BAK, and he is correct in stating you should consider software, that can be one of your future considerations.

Canon provides software, as part of their deliverables, when purchasing a new camera. This software will allow you to shoot in RAW and manipulate the captured image in more ways more than is easily done otherwise. And, at no extra cost. Nikon also provides similar software for their cameras, but I read somewhere they charge extra for it (this may not be accurate since I don’t use Nikon). As you become more proficient and want to get more from your shots you can still acquire third party software to meet your needs. (Check out DPR’s Glossary to find out more about RAW if you need to.)

Software supplied by Canon permits much of what you will want to do, at least for a start, involving RAW, but not as finely as can be controlled by other commercially available software. A free-bee for RAW and JPG adjustments is FastStone Image Viewer, but that also has its limitations. Third party software ($$) to adjust your pictures has a learning curve which varies with each product, but it does allow you to do more than what is provided from the camera manufacturers or the free ones.

As another poster said, take it one step at a time. Only after you see what you have and can do would it be time to look towards your next step (and that does not always mean another purchase).

--

I started in the 50's - my first picture was taken with a Leica and hooked me for life. I no longer use my Leicas, but I am still taking pictures. Some things never change.

exactly what doctor prescribed .

As BAK said if you are starting into DSLR you cannot go with either Nikon or Canon, only reason to choose Canon is relatively cheaper investment in longer run in terms of lenses that you will buy down the road. Nikon is something you should get once you start making money out of your pictures.

Canon T3i would be my first choice and only reason would be because of swivel screen on back. trust me I've 60D with similar screen and it is absolutely amazing kind of pictures and composition angles you could create with that screen which is not possible with other fixed screens.

go for T3i with kit lens and start from there by later adding 55-250 to you kit lens for extra reach and 50mm F1.8 for low light shoots.
Most important of all - have fun while shooting.
--
Thanks
M

exactly - I've used DPP that came with my camera for very long before I moved to LR3. DPP is very capable software for basic editing as long as you shoot in RAW.

--
Thanks
M

All good advice so far. Here's just a bit more.

Agreed that the included DPP software will suffice for now. Also, if you have a Mac, iPhoto will probably be all you ever need. I haven't used it in quite a while, but I think the newer versions even support RAW.

Get two smaller memory cards rather than one larger one (e.g. 2 x 4 GB vs. 1 x 8 GB), or at least have a smaller/cheaper one available as a backup. Card failure is rare, but does happen.

Get an extra battery, even if a compatible non-Canon brand.

Shoot lots and enjoy!

Cheers,
GT
--
Lyin' Pete used to do this all by touch...

Thank you so much for all the feedback! I have definitely fondled all the cameras. I don't care what the camera offers, if I can't hold it and feel comfortable with it, I don't want it. And I'm sorry, I thought I had edited out the Canon vs. Nikon part, because I realized I was posting in the Canon forum and didn't want to irritate. But I appreciate the feedback about the two.

The software is not much of an option right now. My nice laptop died, so we are using two netbooks. I have a great external hard drive for my pics, but not much I can do on the netbooks for editing right now. They just don't support very hefty software. As it is right now, I have been using this camera for the last few years, http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/sony/dsc_h5-review/ . I play around a bit with editing it but am hoping to rely more on the camera than the software as I learn right now. Delving into the software is just another compulsion that might overtake me.

Several of you mentioned the 55/250 kit lens. I have had the Sigma 18-200 OS lens recommended to me. I understand the limitations of the zoom lenses at the far ends of the zoom. The Canon, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011NVMO8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER , runs about $250. The Sigma, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NOSCGM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER , about $400. A friend that is a sports photographer thought the Sigma might be a good lens to meet my needs. If I went with it, I was considering the T2i body to stay within budget (more of less). Feedback? Too limiting?

Thank you!

most of time you will be able to pick up Canon 55-250 for less than $200, I got mine for $144 from Amazon.com and they do keep running those sales from time to time on that particular lens. So I'd suggest you to go with 18-55 + 55-250 combo instead of Sigma 18-200 route.
--
Thanks
M

Wow, that's a good price. Is that a US lens? I have waited about as long as I can stand and am going to order soon. I don't think I can wait for a sale. Track season is starting and I'd like to have a zoom on hand.

it is US version and from Amazon.com, I'd suggest check your local Target store. I've seen them running this lens below $200 in store from time to time.
--
Thanks
M

Okay, next question... Are there advantages to buying the lenses separately vs as a kit (assuming prices are equal) regarding warranties, ease of return? I'm worried that if I buy a camera kit that it may be harder to deal with a return or warranty issue if there is a problem with a lens. Yes/no?

There should be no problems with warranties.

However, returns would likely require returning everything (as its a single box according to the retailer).
--
Warning: The internet is filled with one sided views. Stay objective.

The Sigma 18-200 OS (OS means stabilized) lens is particularly good in these types of lenses.

There really are no rules that result in only one good choice.

I have an 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS, and it is a fine combo.

At some point, coin flipping may actually be a good idea.

BAK

You are absolutely right about the coin flipping! LOL. My husband became the coin flipper tonight by just telling me to make a decision and do it so I can start enjoying a camera. So, I am the proud new owner of a T3i with the 18-55mm and 55-250 Canon lenses! I had decided on the T2i because I just could not see paying the extra money mainly (for me) a nice, twistable screen. I had shopped online and the prices weren't any better than what we found locally so we went shopping in town today. But when we got down to it, they were out of the T2i and my husband said to just get the T3i.

I am beyond excited but I also kind of want to throw up. That is a lot of money to us. I rarely spend money on myself but this is an investment in memories of my sweet babies.

Thank you so much for the help everybody offered. It really helped me to feel better about making a choice.

CarrieT said:

I am the proud new owner of a T3i with the 18-55mm and 55-250 Canon lenses

Click to expand...

Heh, was about to recommend you get exactly that

Save up for an external flash with a rotating head (e.g. Nissin Di622). This will enable you to bounce the flash off the wall or ceiling which gives you much more flattering light than direct flash (fired straight at the subject).

CarrieT said:

I am the proud new owner of a T3i with the 18-55mm and 55-250 Canon lenses!

Click to expand...

Being a former owner of the venerable H5, I know you are going to absolutely love the great autofocus, IQ, and capabilities of the DSLR. You are going to go... Holy Crud, these are the pictures I've been trying to get all along! :-D

A couple of thoughts for consideration...

Put the 50mm f1.8 on top of your 'to get' list. The 3 stop shutter speed advantage is just Killer in low light (as in everything indoors!). It's dirt cheap, and a no-brainer. I like to shoot it at f2. I also like the outstanding 85mm f1.8 even more (love it to pieces actually), but it's more expensive. If you're going to be doing sports in the future though, keep it in mind.

If your priority is in just 'registering the moment' a lot of the time (as in parties, events, etc), and you're not looking for anything really artsy (at this point in the game), then consider a flash (with diffuser/bouncer). Or at least get a diffuser/bouncer for the built-in flash. Flash will practically guarantee that you'll get something usable. Note: I have nothing against using flash, but using it Well (ie avoiding the 'flash look') takes a considerable amount of effort, and may be best saved for later. Just IMO.

If you find your netbook kinda klunky and slow (I sure did mine), get yourself a bigger memory module. Do some googling to find the exact spec. Most come with a 1 GB stick, and can take up to a 2 GB stick. Do it. It makes a HUGE difference. Keep in mind that there is usually only 1 memory slot.

Read read read . There's an enormous amount of great info out there. Here are a couple links to get you going...

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=414088

http://www.shortcourses.com/use/

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/learning-to-see.shtml

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/

http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html

Browse browse browse .

Browse as many photo galleries as you can. It'll help develop your Eye, and provide you with Inspiration. For starters...

http://www.pbase.com/sheila

http://www.pbase.com/galleries?view=popular&period=all

Shoot shoot shoot .

Shoot everything you see...

Take the camera out of auto (start with Aperture Priority). Set your aperture for the 'Look' that you want. (Shoot at, or close to wide open when you need the shutter speed).

Set your ISO to 400, then bump it up when camera shake/subject motion blur becomes a problem.

Use single point AF (don't let the camera decide what to focus on with Multi). Consider switching to Back Button AF for greatest control (remove AF from the shutter button).

Compositionally, always be thinking Light, Angle, and Timing .

And keep posting Here!

Have fun with your new camera!

Cheers,
R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

Congratulations. Fine choice.

Do not neglect to make lots of prints, and send them to lots of friends and relatives.

Pictures stored in your computer will disappear when the hard drive crashes, and it will.

So get the prints made, and framed, and enjoyed.

(Backing up the computer files is a good idea, too)

BAK