Think this is useful for m4/3 users - It is about IS OIS

s_grins said:

I do not do movies. My G1 doesn't have movie mode and I have no regrets about movies. So, when it comes to OIS, I keep it OFF all the time and there is simple explanation.

In good light when I use my the only OIS 14-45 lens, I do not use OIS because shutter speed is high and OIS can only add high pitch vibration and make things worse. In low light when shutter speed lower (1/20 and below), and I'd like to enable OIS, but I can't get OIS because my fast 20/1.7 lens doesn't have OIS. My third Oly 40-150 does not have OIS either. I'd call this situation "to catch 22"

I have no complains because I'm OK with handheld cameras, but sometimes I wish I had both OIS and IBIS to choose from, when I feel I need IS
--
I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

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I am used from the film photography days, to not have any image stabilization, so now I rarely use it as I said

Ah... , the G1, great camera, and the first one, keep it, it was the first Micro 4/3 and Panasonic did it well, and the AF is still fast enough, I bought the G2 and gave the G1 to my sister, but I kept the good 14-45mm kit lens

--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.

• http://aleo-photo.org

• http://blog.aleo-photo.org

http://m43blog.com/2012/03/22/how-does-ibis-in-olympus-om-d-e-m5-compare-to-panasonic-ois/

Or snobs? Perhaps both?

Am.

PS retarded?

--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

Per Thom Hogan: "Moreover, I don't know of a working sports or wildlife pro using the long lenses that hasn't discovered the same thing by practice: VR tends to degrade shots above 1/500."

A misleading statement, IMO, since any sports or wildlife photographer shooting a long telephoto probably has the camera attached to a monopod or tripod, in which case the VR/IS should be switched off according to most camera manufacturers. The sports photographer is likely to be shooting in burst mode as well, while the wildlife photographer is likely to be shooting in mirror-up mode for the sharpest picture. The fact is, I've taken lots of photos with my D7000 + 70-200mm VR II mounted on a sturdy tripod and never once seen a significant difference in the sharpness of the photos I've taken with VR turned off or VR (accidentally) left on, regardless of the shutter speed. On the other hand, when using my G3 with the Panasonic 100-300mm or 14-140mm lenses, I generally leave IS turned on. The circumstances under which I'm taking pictures with the G3 are usually quite different from those when I'm shooting with my DSLR, e.g., spontaneous street shots versus more carefully planned set-up shots. My standards for each kind of photography are therefore different: with the m43, I'm not looking for "perfection" in the outcome, whereas with the DSLR I'm obviously striving for the highest quality result that a good modern (expensive) digital camera will allow.

As others have said, Thom Hogan often offers some excellent advice for us to consider, but occasionally he goes over the top, I think. I bought his guide to the D7000 and am glad that I did, finding it a very useful introduction and resource for that camera. But as well informed as he is, he does make mistakes, and his guide to the D7000 is no different: there are dozens of minor errors in it (mostly of a typographical nature), but also some more serious technical errors that he has never corrected on-line. As for his photography, IMO it's okay, but it's nothing special. IMO some of the contributors to this forum are actually better photographers, based on the samples they have posted for the rest of us to look at---for which I am very grateful, BTW, because it helps me become a better photographer, too.

s_grins said:

I do not do movies. My G1 doesn't have movie mode and I have no regrets about movies. So, when it comes to OIS, I keep it OFF all the time and there is simple explanation.

In good light when I use my the only OIS 14-45 lens, I do not use OIS because shutter speed is high and OIS can only add high pitch vibration and make things worse. In low light when shutter speed lower (1/20 and below), and I'd like to enable OIS, but I can't get OIS because my fast 20/1.7 lens doesn't have OIS. My third Oly 40-150 does not have OIS either. I'd call this situation "to catch 22"

I have no complains because I'm OK with handheld cameras, but sometimes I wish I had both OIS and IBIS to choose from, when I feel I need IS
--

Click to expand...

sounds like you need a PEN with a Panny 14-45mm!

s_grins said:

I’m surprised how much Wikipedia contributes to the forum.

Click to expand...

TEdolph

Aleo Veuliah said:

• This is an article by Thom Hogan, but I think it may be applied to all image stabilization systems

• Where you read VR, translate to IS for Olympus and for OIS on Panasonic Lumix

• http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

• I have to say that from my experience I agree with rule one, I rarely turn on OIS (IS), only use it on, when I really need it

Click to expand...

Regarding Panasonic Mega OIS (which is what exists on Lumix G Series lenses), they state that the sampling frequency of the error-sensing portion of the servo-system is 4000 Hz (CPS):

The MEGA O.I.S. accurately detects even slight hand-shake movement by a sampling frequency of 4,000 times per second

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/ois/index.html

The Shannon-Nyquist frequency limit corresponds to 1/2000 Second - as opposed to the 1/500 Second figure that Thom Hogan cites in regards to Nikon VR systems. An important difference ...

Where Panasonic Power OIS is concerned, the sampling frequency is not mentioned in the descriptive text at the above-linked web-page. It is probably a fair guess that the sampling frequency of Power OIS systems are not lower in frequency than Mega OIS systems. If the sampling frequency was higher in the case of Power OIS, it seems likely that Panasonic likely would proudly advertise that fact.
.

Regarding the article at:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/04/oddities-of-image-stabilization.html

Regarding the statements:

Several hundred test photographs indicated that there was no clear-cut advantage to one stabilization system over the other .

The author offers no data as to how (either) implementation of IS actaully performed - indicating that the sources that the author relied upon did not provide any of such (reliable) data.

Interestingly, having both systems on didn't perform any worse (didn't perform any better, either). The manual says not to do that. Sometimes manuals are wrong. No doubt you are all shocked to hear that .

These statements seem to call into question the sources, and the credibility of the author to even pass along such puzzling information. It probably would have been wiser to refrain from making such statements altogether - as they imply flawed abilities of the sources to evaluate performance.

What I have to conclude is that image stabilization is of modest benefit with this lens used at its longest focal length, but it's not really a game-changer .

It seems to me that the author was not in a position to draw much of anything in the ways of inferences from the information at the author's disposal, and would be wiser not to publish any "conclusions". Nobody has forced the author to draw anything in the way of conclusions, after all.

Detail Man said:

Aleo Veuliah said:

• This is an article by Thom Hogan, but I think it may be applied to all image stabilization systems

• Where you read VR, translate to IS for Olympus and for OIS on Panasonic Lumix

• http://www.bythom.com/nikon-vr.htm

• I have to say that from my experience I agree with rule one, I rarely turn on OIS (IS), only use it on, when I really need it

Click to expand...

Regarding Panasonic Mega OIS (which is what exists on Lumix G Series lenses), they state that the sampling frequency of the error-sensing portion of the servo-system is 4000 Hz (CPS):

The MEGA O.I.S. accurately detects even slight hand-shake movement by a sampling frequency of 4,000 times per second

http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/ois/index.html

The Shannon-Nyquist frequency limit corresponds to 1/2000 Second - as opposed to the 1/500 Second figure that Thom Hogan cites in regards to Nikon VR systems. An important difference ...

Click to expand...

Indeed it is, good to know that, thank you

Detail Man said:

Where Panasonic Power OIS is concerned, the sampling frequency is not mentioned in the descriptive text at the above-linked web-page. It is probably a fair guess that the sampling frequency of Power OIS systems are not lower in frequency than Mega OIS systems. If the sampling frequency was higher in the case of Power OIS, it seems likely that Panasonic likely would proudly advertise that fact.
.

Regarding the article at:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2010/04/oddities-of-image-stabilization.html

Click to expand...

Good to read from other sources, that is what is good here on this forum, many people gives important information

Detail Man said:

Regarding the statements:

Several hundred test photographs indicated that there was no clear-cut advantage to one stabilization system over the other .

The author offers no data as to how (either) implementation of IS actaully performed - indicating that the sources that the author relied upon did not provide any of such (reliable) data.

Interestingly, having both systems on didn't perform any worse (didn't perform any better, either). The manual says not to do that. Sometimes manuals are wrong. No doubt you are all shocked to hear that .

These statements seem to call into question the sources, and the credibility of the author to even pass along such puzzling information. It probably would have been wiser to refrain from making such statements altogether - as they imply flawed abilities of the sources to evaluate performance.

What I have to conclude is that image stabilization is of modest benefit with this lens used at its longest focal length, but it's not really a game-changer .

It seems to me that the author was not in a position to draw much of anything in the ways of inferences from the information at the author's disposal, and would be wiser not to publish any "conclusions". Nobody has forced the author to draw anything in the way of conclusions, after all.

Click to expand...

--
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.

• http://aleo-photo.org

• http://blog.aleo-photo.org

MichaelKJ said:

Thom used to post on DPR, including here, but stopped doing so some time ago. I assume this was because got tired of endless bashing by people who preferred calling him names rather than engaging him in a rational debate.

Click to expand...

No, he got tired of bashing by the DPR editorial staff. They pulled a few posts of his, I can't remember why now, but he thought they were acting badly, and left the site.
--
Bob

Aleo Veuliah said:

YouDidntDidYou said:

me too, he doesn't think or get Mirrorless, he treats them like little Nikon DSLRs.

During the Olympus affair he took a very hard puritan line and for a suppose man of the world often played dumb, he is very quick to jump in and try and poison the well at anything Olympus corp. at any opportunity (without doing the same to Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Pentax etc and in reality he is quite soften on Nikon not matter what he professes)

Also he doesn't give much air-time to Panasonic in his articles considering how large their share of the Mirrorless market is.

His articles are too condensed ( I would like to use another word) - the article you link to is 5,400+ words without a single photo or illustration.

Anyways......................

Click to expand...

That is true, he is a man of words no doubt but he may have some interesting points of view, of course he may prefer Nikon, he worked many years writing about Nikon, but I never have seen him bashing a brand ... maybe I have not read enough, but he seems a decent guy until proof of the contrary

Click to expand...

The brand he gets closest to bashing is Nikon, because he knows most about it. Thom's not shy in talking about the inadequacies of Nikon products and even their management attitudes, when there is something to criticise. He rarely is as critical of other brands, because he does not have the detail knowledge of them.
--
Bob

Interesting, even though I do respect Thom's advice most of the time, from my use of Nikon VR lenses, I do not subscribe to the 1/500 for Nikon VR.

I've shot too many fast birds in flight with VR-on. Shooting a sitting bird with the 500vr or 300vr at low speeds when suddenly a Harrier makes a run at something and no time to turn the VR collar control to off.

I'll have to learn how the m43 systems work.
Many thanks for the info.

ps I find Thom to be one of Nikon's biggest constructive critics and he has been with Mirrorless for a long time
--
Anticipate the Light and wing it when you get it wrong

Tom
http://taja.smugmug.com/

VR is VR; not IBIS. May be close to OIS but not Olympus IBIS. Very different. And the E-M5 IBIS seems different or more advanced again. What works and does not work with VR does not mean it's the same for IBIS. So, you can't one for the other substitute in his article. This is nothing against Thom or his knowledge, just pointing out that he was talking about something else.

It appears from the online manual that remapping IS onto one of the buttons is not an option. Looks as though one must suffer through the "Super Control Panel" or scrolling down the "Live Control".

won't be as bad on em5...just supercontrol> touchscreen right? or live view is touchscreen also.
--
-bokehmokehshmokeh-

MichaelKJ said:

Thom used to post on DPR, including here, but stopped doing so some time ago. I assume this was because got tired of endless bashing by people who preferred calling him names rather than engaging him in a rational debate.

Click to expand...

And unfortunately as there is no moderation, its very easy for a few morons to come to dominate the discussion.

MichaelKJ said:

His new sansmirror.com site has some excellent articles (IMO). He has a clear preference for mFT, including being partial to Oly bodies, but also does a good job of pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of several brands.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm hoping he'll expand on those.

--
MFBernstein

'Wilderness is not a luxury but a necessity of the human spirit.' - Ed Abbey

Jeff Semprebon said:

It appears from the online manual that remapping IS onto one of the buttons is not an option. Looks as though one must suffer through the "Super Control Panel" or scrolling down the "Live Control".

Click to expand...

. . . Yes, I've learned this to be true since posting my question yesterday. Panny has deleted the OIS switch on their newer lenses which is one of the great features that I still enjoy using with my 14-45. Maybe there will be a firmware update for IBIS direct control someday if enough people ask for it but there haven't been that many here who seem to care about it.

nxp3 said:

won't be as bad on em5...just supercontrol> touchscreen right? or live view is touchscreen also.

Click to expand...

. . . You can't use a touchscreen without taking the camera away from your eye while using an EVF. Even when using the screen to compose a shot, diving into the SCP even if only very briefly is an interruption in taking the shot. But a direct control button would eliminate this problem. A slide style on/off switch like those used in the past for OIS would be even better.

I find it always good to keep an open mind....

Obviously omnipotence renders this usless. I bow before the....

In case anyone was confused, note on having to usie SCP was for the E-PL3, not the E-P1, in which IS can be mapped onto the AF control, as originally noted.

I would also note that turning IBIS on and off does not seem likely to be done on a shot-by-shot basis while composing through the viewfinder. Turn it off when mounting to a tripod or otherwise not wanting it on, turn it to IS2 or IS3 when planning to pan, etc. The only place where it seems that one would want to change it while viewing is to readjust the focal length if shooting w/ a legacy zoom.

I drank the cool aid and purchased a new nikon d7000 with the 18-200. The image quality was no better than the wife's E-620 and thats with the kit lens. I used the word "was" thats because the Nikon is going back to the dealer. I forgot to mention the hot pixels. I knew it was heavy when I purchased the camera, and that was actually good. Made the camera quiet stable, but there is no way that it is any better let alone 1300 dollars better than the old E-620.

MichaelKJ said:

Thom used to post on DPR, including here, but stopped doing so some time ago. I assume this was because got tired of endless bashing by people who preferred calling him names rather than engaging him in a rational debate.

Thom has never been afraid to criticize Nikon, but those who don't like him simply choose to ignore that.

His new sansmirror.com site has some excellent articles (IMO). He has a clear preference for mFT, including being partial to Oly bodies, but also does a good job of pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of several brands.

Click to expand...

I actually had a discussion with Thom via PM after his article on state of the mirrorless and my response to it here. Main reason why he stopped posting is that he does not like dpreview administration practice of silently removing posts that they don't like. Just so that you know.

bobn2 said:

The brand he gets closest to bashing is Nikon, because he knows most about it. Thom's not shy in talking about the inadequacies of Nikon products and even their management attitudes, when there is something to criticise. He rarely is as critical of other brands, because he does not have the detail knowledge of them.
--
Bob

Click to expand...

I agree with you Bob. I've been reading Thom Hogan's site since I bought his Nikon D70 guide in 2004, and he has never been shy about criticizing Nikon when he thinks they need it. I am actually kind of surprised that some m4/3 users think he belittles the format. I think of him as quite a fan... especially of Olympus cameras (which he favors over Panasonic). One thing about Thom is that he criticizes business decisions by companies like Nikon and Olympus because he is a fan of the gear these companies produce. He wants them to continue to be successful so he and other photographers can enjoy the fruits of their research, development, and design.

I don't always agree with Thom's opinions, but I always respect and understand his points. He is a landscape photographer and, while I do enjoy shooting landscapes, my overall needs are different from his in a few areas.

As far as VR/OIS/IBIS goes... I would view Thom's article as a good set of guidelines, but it's important to keep in mind that technology differs from one brand to the next and from one camera/lens to the next even within a brand. All rules do not apply to all cameras/lenses.

Sean