I am getting caught up in all the hype. I was all set to buy a Canon 60D or Pentax K5, but nave been reading all the chatter on the Oly EM-5 and I love the look of it. As a beggining creatrive and travel shooter, will I regret not getting the Canon or Pentax after the novelty wears off??
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OM-D EM-5, or true DSLR?
- Thread starter moss1310
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trekkeruss
Veteran Member
I think any regret in going with a DSLR would be tied to size and weight, not novelty.
Chris R-UK
Veteran Member
As you said, you are getting caught up in all the hype. Slow down your decision making. The OM-D isn't a revolutionary camera but it is certainly nice looking if you have ever had an Olympus OM film SLR.
If you want to shoot fast action sport or wildlife the decision is easy - get a DSLR. Mirrorless cameras can't yet compete in these areas.
Compared with a DSLR, micro 4/3 cameras trade off some low light capability, poor AF tracking, short battery life and EVF blackout at high fps for size/weight and much better hand held video capability. There is also a shortage of quality telephoto lenses if you want to shoot sport or wildlife.
Go into a camera store and, if you can't find an OM-D, try out a Panasonic G3 with a 14-42 and a 45-200 lens. See if you like the EVF and see how important weight/size is for you. Compare it against a DSLR with equivalent lenses.
Then wait for the OM-D review on this site.
Then make a decision.
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Chris R
If you want to shoot fast action sport or wildlife the decision is easy - get a DSLR. Mirrorless cameras can't yet compete in these areas.
Compared with a DSLR, micro 4/3 cameras trade off some low light capability, poor AF tracking, short battery life and EVF blackout at high fps for size/weight and much better hand held video capability. There is also a shortage of quality telephoto lenses if you want to shoot sport or wildlife.
Go into a camera store and, if you can't find an OM-D, try out a Panasonic G3 with a 14-42 and a 45-200 lens. See if you like the EVF and see how important weight/size is for you. Compare it against a DSLR with equivalent lenses.
Then wait for the OM-D review on this site.
Then make a decision.
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Chris R
trekkeruss
Veteran Member
Ha, I didn't read your question correctly.
It is all about hype on the Oly at the moment, because how many people actually own one at this point? I'm sure it will be a fine camera, but at a cost. It might be deficient depending on where your photography interests lie.
It is all about hype on the Oly at the moment, because how many people actually own one at this point? I'm sure it will be a fine camera, but at a cost. It might be deficient depending on where your photography interests lie.
I have a Canon 40D, 60D, and 5D, but I'll be getting an OM-D E-M5. My DSLR's are great cameras, but it gets to be a hassle to lug around a DSLR, especially for travel, because it's so much larger and heavier. Keep in mind that it's not just the body that is so much larger and heavier, but it's also the lenses too. I currently have an Oly E-PM1 with Oly VF3 viewfinder, and I love it. It's just so compact, light, and inconspicuous.
So in terms of "the novelty" wearing off, I take the opposite opinion: it's the novelty of lugging around a larger, heavier DSLR that has worn off for me. I still use my DSLR gear for my pro work, but for my own personal, casual shooting, I definitely prefer to take along my m4/3 camera and lenses.
It's also a lot nicer to shoot video with m4/3 cameras, particularly if you have a viewfinder, because you can look through the viewfinder when shooting video (which you can't do with a DSLR). Plus, DSLR's like the 60D still can't do decent auto focus when shooting video, whereas video AF is great on m4/3 bodies. Video AF in the 60D is practically worthless. That's generally not an issue for serious videography because serious videographers using DSLR's for video use follow-focus rigs, and manual focus. But for more casual video shooting, where you just want to point the camera, and start recording, without having to worry about focus, an m4/3 camera is much better.
Deleted1929
Veteran Member
Until a serious review of the EM-5 appears all the chatter about it is purely speculative. Don't let those fairy tales distract you.
Three points to remember :
StephenG
Three points to remember :
- The DSLRs have larger sensors than the EM-5 and we can reasonably expect them to outperform the EM-5 ( especially the K-5 and the Nikon D5100 and D7000 which are class leaders ).
- The smaller sensor of the E-5 has the consequence of affecting depth of field and diffraction effects in what ( to me ) are negative ways.
- While it's supposedly splash proof I'm not aware of any micro 4.3 lenses that are sealed. Someone may be able to correct me on this, but if that's true then a sealed body is useless. You need a sealed lens and body to make a sealed system.
StephenG
AnandaSim
Veteran Member
The Olympus E-series DSLRs are/were classic DSLRs. They too had Four Thirds sensors.
Comparing sensor size is like comparing who's got a bigger you-know-what. There are other things that make a camera work well.
The smaller sensor of the EM-5 (the E-5 is a different camera with the same size sensor) does affect the depth of field on an equivalence basis. So does the APS-C sensor of the D7000 affect the equivalent DOF vs D700. So does the D700 FX sensor affect the equivalent DOF compared to a Mamiya 645 digital.
The size of the sensor is a facet. It is neither good or bad.
The EM-5 will sell with the one currently available Micro Four Thirds weather proof lens - the 12-50mm.
The Micro Four Thirds market (and many of the mirrorless) are aimed at small bodies, as small lens as they can make, reduced relative price of lenses and at the casual shooter market. Therefore lenses are smaller, not very expensive, not very pro in terms of bright, long, zoom. That was in generations 1 through 3. By generation 3 (EM-5 is generation 4), they have done enough work that they can try a bit higher - thus a more DSLR like body, more expensive lenses, robustness and weather proofing. This and bigger lenses will then no longer rely on small, light and cheap as the prime drivers.
To the OP, if you want the cheapest, most compatible and belong to the big tribes, get a Canon or Nikon brand. There are no buts about that. You can find second hand bodies, lenses, rental etc... easily
If you want to emphasise a camera and gear that emphasise smaller size and weight, have enough manual / semi-auto functions, the Micro Four Thirds cameras are quite capable.
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Ananda
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6861540877/a-compilation-of-tips-for-beginners
http://anandasim.blogspot.com/
http://gplus.to/anandasim
'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little or a Lot'
Andy Hastings
Well-known member
I am actually in a similar position as you so I guess you take my advice with a grain of salt and keep that in mind. I am learning photography and have found it difficult to work through all the finer points on a menu-based point and shoot camera that offers all the customization you want.
I have basically been saving and I'll call it "cautiously shopping" for my first interchangable lens camera for about 5 years now =-). Early on I fell in to the Olympus camp and have sort of been waiting for them to come out with the perfect camera body for me. The OM-D EM-5 will be that camera.
You asked about being learn photography...my only concern is that there are so many features on the camera I may never find all of them. The biggest thing I see in terms of a barricade to learning is the level of control offered by the camera. It has two customizable control dials along with a standard mode dial, as well as at least three programmable buttons. You can conceivably make everything you might want to change during a shot available to your finger tips with no need to sort through menus. I think this positions the camera perfectly for me and I look forward to learning on it given that there isn't anything it can't do.
In terms of comparing it to cameras offered by Pentax or Canon, I would wait for the DPreview. I think the review will be glowing based on what we've seen so far. It is a big investment so it makes sense to see the reviews before buying.
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-Andy Hastings
I have basically been saving and I'll call it "cautiously shopping" for my first interchangable lens camera for about 5 years now =-). Early on I fell in to the Olympus camp and have sort of been waiting for them to come out with the perfect camera body for me. The OM-D EM-5 will be that camera.
You asked about being learn photography...my only concern is that there are so many features on the camera I may never find all of them. The biggest thing I see in terms of a barricade to learning is the level of control offered by the camera. It has two customizable control dials along with a standard mode dial, as well as at least three programmable buttons. You can conceivably make everything you might want to change during a shot available to your finger tips with no need to sort through menus. I think this positions the camera perfectly for me and I look forward to learning on it given that there isn't anything it can't do.
In terms of comparing it to cameras offered by Pentax or Canon, I would wait for the DPreview. I think the review will be glowing based on what we've seen so far. It is a big investment so it makes sense to see the reviews before buying.
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-Andy Hastings
Deleted1929
Veteran Member
While I agree the micro 4/3 system is quite capable my main issue is with the fact we've not seen a solid review of the EM-5 yet. We're not going to any time soon, I think.
I did qualify my remarks about the sensor size as being my own feeling.
In terms of the micro 4/3 system I'd consider the G3 a good choice for most people. In practical terms I think it's smaller than the EM-5 and likely to be just as capable for the mainstream user. Save the cash for lenses etc., where it's most useful.
While I think of it I noticed the other day that Panasonic don't seem to the 20mm f1.7 as a kit option on the GF series any more. Anyone know why ?
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StephenG
I did qualify my remarks about the sensor size as being my own feeling.
In terms of the micro 4/3 system I'd consider the G3 a good choice for most people. In practical terms I think it's smaller than the EM-5 and likely to be just as capable for the mainstream user. Save the cash for lenses etc., where it's most useful.
While I think of it I noticed the other day that Panasonic don't seem to the 20mm f1.7 as a kit option on the GF series any more. Anyone know why ?
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StephenG
I don't see how the OM-D E-M5 lacks functionality for learning more about photography. If anything, it actually probably has more functionality than a conventional DSLR for learning more about photography. For example, an OM-D E-M5 has real-time exposure preview in the viewfinder, which is really helpful for making sure you get the right exposure every time because the viewfinder is actually giving you real-time exposure feedback-- something that a DSLR can't do. The E-M5's high resolution OLED EVF shows you the effects of highlight & shadow Control, white balance, exposure compensation, aspect Ratio, and a host of other settings and advanced digital image processing functions right in the viewfinder. For example, if you're into shooting black and white photos, you can switch the camera to black-and-white mode, which will help you with black-and-white visualization of your scene. A regular DSLR's viewfinder won't allow you to do any of these things.
But probably the biggest factor to consider is that if you have a compact, inconspicuous camera, you're more likely to take it everywhere with you and take more photos. That's what's happening with my E-PM1. There are a lot of situations where I just didn't want to bring my Canon 60D. It's too bulky, too conspicuous, so I end up leaving it at home. However, with my E-PM1, it's lens and body are so compact that it's now my take-everywhere camera. I just sling the camera strap across my chest, or throw it in my messenger bag, and I can have an interchangeble lens camera with me practically all the time. It's so inconspicuous, most people don't even realize I have a camera with me.
Anyways, I've been having a blast with my m4/3 camera.
There are pros and cons with every camera. But I don't think cameras like the D5100 or D7000 are really all that much better than an OM-D E-M5. You really have to do quite a bit of pixel peeping to see differences.
But for travel, I definitely think the E-M5 is a winner because it's so compact and inconspicuous. You also have to consider that, while the 4/3 sensor does present some compromises in DOF control, on the plus side you have some really great, fast primes for the m4/3 system.
As for sealed lenses, there is the new Oly 12-50 zoom:
Not only is this lens weather sealed, but it also has multi-speed powered zooming (valuable for video shooting) in addition to regular manual zooming. And it also has macro mode and an customizable function button (L-Fn) on it. All this is definitely more than what you can get with typical DSLR lenses.
Anyways, I'm a Canon DSLR shooter. But a couple months ago I bought an E-PM1 with VF3 viewfinder because I got tired of lugging around my DSLR gear. And I'm quite enjoying it. Sure, my Canon bodies still have an advantage at highest ISO and for DOF control, but my m4/3 camera still delivers great results and is a lot of fun to shoot with. And even at high ISO, the E-PM1 isn't too shabby. Here's an ISO 4000 shot from the E-PM1 (below). Based on the image samples from the E-M5, high ISO quality from the E-M5 appears to be much, much better. But even with my lowly E-PM1, I'm pretty pleased that I'm getting his quality from such a small sensor and small camera. These days, I don't feel the need to have every image be totally noiseless or grain-free.
Deleted1929
Veteran Member
I don't seem to have explained my preference for a larger sensor properly.
I'm primarily interested in more DR, and not so much the noise aspect ( although there's a relationship as you increase ISO ).
There's a 2.5-3 EV difference between the DR of a D5100 and an E-PL3, for example. For me that's the most significant aspect of the sensor difference. My current "lightweight" walk-around is a D5000 and that's 2-2.5 stops better than an E-PL3. Before I got a D5000 my not-so-lightweight walk-around was a Fuji S3, again for the excellent DR ( which is relatively noise in mid-tones due to the particular design of the sensor ).
That said I agree that something like the E-PL3 is very handy and I'm considering an older used E-PL1 myself. As you have the VF-3 would you tell me what you think of it for manual focusing ( if you do that much ) ?
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StephenG
I'm primarily interested in more DR, and not so much the noise aspect ( although there's a relationship as you increase ISO ).
There's a 2.5-3 EV difference between the DR of a D5100 and an E-PL3, for example. For me that's the most significant aspect of the sensor difference. My current "lightweight" walk-around is a D5000 and that's 2-2.5 stops better than an E-PL3. Before I got a D5000 my not-so-lightweight walk-around was a Fuji S3, again for the excellent DR ( which is relatively noise in mid-tones due to the particular design of the sensor ).
That said I agree that something like the E-PL3 is very handy and I'm considering an older used E-PL1 myself. As you have the VF-3 would you tell me what you think of it for manual focusing ( if you do that much ) ?
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StephenG
AnandaSim
Veteran Member
The EM-5 pulls the crowd who have a chip on their shoulder about not having a DSLR like camera. People have insatiable lust. They bought into a PEN or Panasonic similar and then continually get ragged by people with a 5D and two Canon L lenses so then the PEN owners lust for something that is bigger.
- It isn't weather resistant
- It has the Panasonic JPEG engine. Again the target market for casual shooters is that they may not enjoy fondling their RAW and they want ready-to-go JPEG. The Olympus JPEG look is different from the Panasonic JPEG look.
- Yes save the money for lenses and the Micro Four Thirds currently have affordable and fun lenses. Not the bestest always but fun. Like the 45mm f/1.8 Oly. The 20mm, 14mm Pany. Even the deprecated 17mm Oly is fun. These are all affordable.
Whilst in Malaysia, retail sales assistants said that the 20mm is "out of stock". I have not heard why.
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Ananda
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6861540877/a-compilation-of-tips-for-beginners
http://anandasim.blogspot.com/
http://gplus.to/anandasim
'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little or a Lot'
AnandaSim
Veteran Member
You have so.
Yes, the elusive DR. I just saw the DR or the look from friend Brandon's Pentax 645D
http://brandoneu.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/pentax-645d-first-impressions.html
And I know what Malaysian outdoor scenes look like. If you want to talk DR, that's real DR
Measurebration. You are a photographer with long experience. Deal with it.
I shot transparency film when others shot colour negs. There should be heaps of DR difference in DR and exposure between the two and I still had fun.
Yes, indisputable difference in DR. I shoot with a phone cam. How about the DR of that?
Buy a new E-PL1 - they are cheap. Why buy used? The price difference is not that great for that camera I would think. VF-3 - feedback is no, get the VF-2 if you are a viewfinder guy.
I don't even have a VF for my E-PL1. The LCD screen shaded from the sun is sharp enough to manual focus with legacy lenses assuming you have good eyesight - mine is multi-focal specs handicapped. The cams have 5x, 7x, 14x magnification for MF to check focus and click if needed. I don't VF with my PEN. If I want a VF, I use a DSLR.
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Ananda
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6861540877/a-compilation-of-tips-for-beginners
http://anandasim.blogspot.com/
http://gplus.to/anandasim
'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little or a Lot'
No, I don't do much manual focusing. However, I did just try out the Focus Magnification feature in the VF3 viewfinder. And it definitely makes manual focusing a cinch. For example, when using the VF3 viewfinder you'll see a tiny green focus box at the center of the viewfinder screen. When you activate Focus Magnification, that small focus box is instantly enlarged to full screen, allowing you to very precisely focus the lens manually. On my E-PM1, I customized the Rec button to activate this Focus Magnification feature because that button falls nicely under my right thumb, so it's easy to jump in and out of Focus Magnification just by pressing that button. You'll probably have other customization options on the E-PL3 since the E-PL3 has more external controls.
I definitely have to say that this Focus Magnification feature allows you to do much more precise manual focusing than on a DSLR's viewfinder screen, with less eye strain and less effort, even in low light, because A) the level of Focus Magnification is massive and B) you are working with an illuminated screen, so you don't have to worry about dealing with a dim viewfinder to focus by. This was actually my first time trying Focus Magnification (since I hardly ever use manual focus), but if I were a regular manual focus user I would definitely consider it an extremely valuable and effective feature.
Deleted1929
Veteran Member
I'm a spectacle wearer myself. At last we find common ground.
Thanks for the VF-3 opinion.
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StephenG
Deleted1929
Veteran Member
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StephenG
StephenG
AnandaSim
Veteran Member
No probs. Just saw this guy ABC. Shoots with an iPhoneI'm a spectacle wearer myself. At last we find common ground.
Thanks for the VF-3 opinion.
http://www.aikbengchia.com/swipe_d_2011/#/0
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Ananda
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6861540877/a-compilation-of-tips-for-beginners
http://anandasim.blogspot.com/
http://gplus.to/anandasim
'Enjoy Diversity - Live a Little or a Lot'
B
Barry Fitzgerald
Guest
Olympus having got into quite a lot of trouble lately have an uncertain future.
The K-5 is tempting as it is fairly cheap, but Pentax have a small lens range, and have wrestled with lots of QC problems of late.
Canon and Nikon it might be boring but you are safe..
The K-5 is tempting as it is fairly cheap, but Pentax have a small lens range, and have wrestled with lots of QC problems of late.
Canon and Nikon it might be boring but you are safe..
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