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G1X initial thoughts: Definitely some frustrations.

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Tom Hoots

Tom Hoots

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I'll flesh this out and post some photos in time, but let me just start with a few thoughts I've got after spending a day with the G1X:

I wasn't going to get it, I wasn't going to get it, I wasn't going to get it. But, after playing with it, all of the "It's too...." stuff turned out to be "It's not too...." It wasn't SO MUCH BIGGER than the G12 in real life than it looked in pictures. It wasn't that awful dog-slow shooting shot-to-shot. And so on. So, I bit on it.

I sure don't agree with any sense that it's "plasticky" -- it feels solid and metallic. But, it really is bigger than it ought to be. Sitting next to my S95, it's just insanely too big.

I think the image quality "remains to be seen" -- I've got more shooting to do. I shoot JPEG, and I think I agree with Marco Nero with the contrast +1 and saturation +1 -- I've got to do more playing with the sharpness to get a grip on that, though. But, so far, it does seem to be that typical "Canon color" with a big sensor in a "big compact" body.

I did some shooting with it and the S95 this afternoon, and one thing was more than abundantly clear: The S95's LCD screen was much, much, MUCH, MUCH brighter than the G1X's screen could ever DREAM of being. I thought everything looked absolutely dull and lifeless as I was shooting with the G1X, but that's pretty much the LCD it's got. It's like the G1X at maximum brightness was about equivalent to the S95 on its second step -- just dark, dark, dark.

In another thread I talked about AEB -- bracketing -- and I thought the shot-to-shot speed wasn't too bad. BUT. Holy stinking cow, just turn the "DR Correction" on, and IT SLOWS TO A CRAWL. During bracketing, with the image review turned on, so you can see the last shot on-screen, the screen actually goes black with a "Busy" message after each shot. ABYSMALLY slow. On that pesky little S95, you can turn that DR Correction on or off, and it doesn't make any difference in the shot-to-shot speed at all -- but it's just enormous in the G1X.

And I've already bumped into the "can't focus on anything even remotely 'close' at all" threshold, several times. Something like this (from my NEX-5 with its kit lens)?





Forget about it. You can't even begin to get that close. Pull back at least a foot before you'll be able to focus on anything.

So, it's not a bed of roses, folks. Like any other camera, it's some bunch of compromises, with some range of capabilities. But, at least at this point, I'd say it's got kind of "more compromises" and a more "limited range of capabilities" than you'll find in a lot of other cameras, whether they "compete" in the general segment, or not.

In the end, I'm a bit disappointed. But, that's just one day, and just a bit of shooting. I expect it'll be worth dragging around with me, as nothing here is a real "deal-killer." But it's just "frustrating" or "limited" at times, and I suppose it always will be.

I'll process some pictures and post them in follow-up messages, and I'll think about some other things to say about it. If you have any questions, by all means ask them, and I'll see if I can give you a decent answer.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4330317199/albums
 
Thanks for your thoughts, looking forward to your images.

I've been comparing mine against my G12 and X10 and from that sector the G1X is a standout, I love it. When I compare it against my NEX-5N and other CSCs the compromises really show.

Canon self-described it as a convienence camera for a DSLR shooter, and I have to agree. A DSLR shooter isn't looking to carry around another system when they want convienence and relative compactness and portability. But a user who is open to buying into a CSC system might see the G1X as a list of limitations.

It might be all that Canon is putting up at the moment but it's not a valid response to the mirrorless market, it's a P&S with DSLR image quality bringing many of the existing P&S limitations with it. I believe the appeal of the G1X will only slightly exceed that of the G11/G12, and will never really hit it with CSC users.

Meanwhile I'm out shooting RAW and the images look like I took a 60D/7D CR2 and cropped it, they are very detailed with low noise. I look forward to native ACR support.
 
Here is an assortment of shots I took today. Click on the (Original) links in the photo headers to download the straight-out-of-the-camera originals:













































All were taken in "P" (Program) mode, with Contrast, Saturation, and Sharpness at +1. I used evaluative metering -- I sure didn't like any of the shots I took with center-weighted metering, which were very dark.

It became pretty clear that the usual exposure compensation setting of -0.33 was what I preferred for outdoor daylight shots, so you can see that in the EXIF info that is intact in all of these shots.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4330317199/albums
 
Adam said:
I've been comparing mine against my G12 and X10 and from that sector the G1X is a standout, I love it. When I compare it against my NEX-5N and other CSCs the compromises really show.
Click to expand...
Yes, agreed.
AdamJRed said:
It might be all that Canon is putting up at the moment but it's not a valid response to the mirrorless market, it's a P&S with DSLR image quality bringing many of the existing P&S limitations with it. I believe the appeal of the G1X will only slightly exceed that of the G11/G12, and will never really hit it with CSC users.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty good way to describe it. Well said.
AdamJRed said:
Meanwhile I'm out shooting RAW and the images look like I took a 60D/7D CR2 and cropped it, they are very detailed with low noise. I look forward to native ACR support.
Click to expand...
In the end, it does look like we'll be able to get some pretty good image quality out of the beastie. :-)

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4330317199/albums
 
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist, Tom! Now, let's just see how long you keep it. ;)

So, does it meet your walk-around/pocketable requirements? Does it feel huge compared to your 5N body? Is the LCD dark, or just dull? I found the S95 LCD a bit too saturated re: color accuracy.

Most buyers seem to feel that the IQ is worth all the tradeoffs. Look forward to getting your take. I plan to trek through the snow to the valley and maybe get one myself this weekend.
 
Tom Hoots said:
I've got to do more playing with the sharpness to get a grip on that
Click to expand...
I've backed that full off as it adds way too much haloing , backed the NR to low too.. I wish it'd lessen the NR at low ISOs and it's not as bad as the S9x and G11/12 for low ISO smear but there's too still much (about the same as the low end to mid range DSLRs), I hate plasticky NR smear at low ISOs almost as much as lens decentering and it renders for me, far to many of canon's cameras as RAW only Devices (the S90-G12 especially) for use with non canon converters.
Tom Hoots said:
The S95's LCD screen was much, much, MUCH, MUCH brighter than the G1X's screen could ever DREAM of being.
Click to expand...
I actually backed the brightness DOWN there too ! . I was finding that playing the images on the LCD looked brighter than I was getting on the monitor . my LCD irritation in the G1X (or more the playback algorithm) is that when you zoom into an image it looks aliased and weird - the S90 and G10 are far better despite their far lower rez LCDs

I never use bracketing ever - as for DR correction it works very well in Auto - I found it useless in the smaller sensor canons as it smeared out the images with NR, the G1X doesn't do this thankfully

--
A Problem is only the pessimistic way of looking at a challenge

 
Tom it's doing a terrific job with those dusky street/sky scenes. The blues are lovely, the lights are soft and pleasing.



More pleasing to me than a lot of cameras dealing with the same light levels.

I just wonder what it'd be like with an overall faster lens :(
 
Mk7 said:
I knew you wouldn't be able to resist, Tom! Now, let's just see how long you keep it. ;)
Click to expand...
Oh, I expect I'll keep the thing. It should be useful in a number of ways.
Mk7 said:
So, does it meet your walk-around/pocketable requirements?
Click to expand...
I think so. I'm thinking in terms of our typical rainy conditions, when sometimes we get VERY dramatic lighting, with ultra-dark skies, yet a bit of sun breaking through -- but I'm not taking a camera out in that, unless I can pop it into a pocket somehow. Or, going to some kind of event, when I need to stash the camera away while stopping for lunch. Or, for wandering around, and popping it into my pocket when I need to go into a store to buy something. Oh, but wait -- then I'll get wrestled to the ground by the store's security guy, when he sees that I have obviously stashed half of the store's inventory into my front pocket. :-)
Mk7 said:
Does it feel huge compared to your 5N body?
Click to expand...
Oh, you bet. And whereas the NEX-5N's grip just fits PERFECTLY in my hand, the big G1X is like trying to hang onto an old tube TV or something enormous like that. :-)
Mk7 said:
Is the LCD dark, or just dull?
Click to expand...
Both.
Mk7 said:
I found the S95 LCD a bit too saturated re: color accuracy.
Click to expand...
The S95 LCD is just a ton brighter -- the G1X just makes everything look dark and dull, and I fear for how well that thing will do in bright light. The NEX LCD's are probably in the neighborhood of twice as bright, at their maximum brightness settings.
Mk7 said:
Most buyers seem to feel that the IQ is worth all the tradeoffs. Look forward to getting your take.
Click to expand...
That's pretty much the case for me. The S95 is a far more satisfying camera to use, fits far better into pockets, but once you get into the large-sensor mirrorless market, it's hard to settle for compact image quality.
Mk7 said:
I plan to trek through the snow to the valley and maybe get one myself this weekend.
Click to expand...
Well, it's not "the perfect camera," but then what is? It certainly is unique in the market, that's for sure!

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4330317199/albums
 
Thanks for the sample pics and impressions. I am also in the market for a "compact" camera, and can't decide between the next 5n or the g1x. Seeing as how you have both, how do they compare? I'm mostly interested in IQ and ease of use. Thanks in advance.

Patrick
 
The Image quality is great...intuitive it;s not... a faster lens throughout the zoom range would have been lots better. More outside buttons for control. Need more time to test it this weekend and post some shots...I had the S100 and like it better, lol
Rick
--
http://bejersey.smugmug.com/
 
I just picked up the G1X a couple of days ago and have only used it one evening so bear that in mind. I was looking for a "point and shoot with good image quality to supplement my DSLR and NEX5N. Camera is heavy, viewfinder is useless. Image quality seems very nice...but I'm returning it because I don't like the flip to the side LCD..I prefer an LCD that flips down so that if I want to I can I can look down on it and hold the camera waist level or so for stabilization. In my opinion this camera should have had an electronic LCD to be more useful. I think I would have kept it if it did but I'm returning it today.
 
Tom,

I hope you don't mind a few responses to your post. I finally got a chance to use mine last night for a few hours and I think I'm finally getting a handle on how to approach its operation.
Tom Hoots said:
I sure don't agree with any sense that it's "plasticky" -- it feels solid and metallic. But, it really is bigger than it ought to be. Sitting next to my S95, it's just insanely too big.
Click to expand...
I don't mind large cameras, but I purchased the G1 X for its size vs. image quality. "Too big" in that context is a matter of personal preference since noone can tell you how important image quality is when trying to balance that with convenience.
Tom Hoots said:
I think the image quality "remains to be seen" -- I've got more shooting to do. I shoot JPEG, and I think I agree with Marco Nero with the contrast +1 and saturation +1 -- I've got to do more playing with the sharpness to get a grip on that, though. But, so far, it does seem to be that typical "Canon color" with a big sensor in a "big compact" body.
Click to expand...
On my 7D back when I shot JPEG I turned the sharpness all the way down. An unsharpened image will take sharpening in Photoshop much better, and PS has far superior sharpening. That being said, it doesn't sound like you want to do any post processing. I shoot with RAW+JPEG, keep all the JPEGs, pick the RAW files I think have the potential to be important or that I'll want big prints of and delete the rest. That breaks my files down into three tiers of use: RAW for future editing, JPEG for convenience of display on my computer and other systems (PS3, for example), and a complete JPEG archive of every shot I've ever taken that is untouched (only horribly out of focus shots that have no redeeming value are deleted). There are even times that fairly trivial shots that I capture in RAW can be important to someone else who will then appreciate my ability to take the RAW and produce maximum quality output.
Tom Hoots said:
I did some shooting with it and the S95 this afternoon, and one thing was more than abundantly clear: The S95's LCD screen was much, much, MUCH, MUCH brighter than the G1X's screen could ever DREAM of being. I thought everything looked absolutely dull and lifeless as I was shooting with the G1X, but that's pretty much the LCD it's got. It's like the G1X at maximum brightness was about equivalent to the S95 on its second step -- just dark, dark, dark.
Click to expand...
I played with the brightness on my LCD and was blinded by the highest setting. Then again, I don't really like a really bright display because it is hard on my eyes going from normal lighting to a bright screen. The only time I would think about turning it up would be in the sun, but I've never needed to do that on any camera I've owned.
Tom Hoots said:
In another thread I talked about AEB -- bracketing -- and I thought the shot-to-shot speed wasn't too bad. BUT. Holy stinking cow, just turn the "DR Correction" on, and IT SLOWS TO A CRAWL. During bracketing, with the image review turned on, so you can see the last shot on-screen, the screen actually goes black with a "Busy" message after each shot. ABYSMALLY slow. On that pesky little S95, you can turn that DR Correction on or off, and it doesn't make any difference in the shot-to-shot speed at all -- but it's just enormous in the G1X.
Click to expand...
Another in-camera process that I can't speak to because I would never use it. I personally have greater faith in Photoshop to allow for exposure correction and highlight/shadow recovery.
Tom Hoots said:
And I've already bumped into the "can't focus on anything even remotely 'close' at all" threshold, several times. Something like this (from my NEX-5 with its kit lens)?>

Forget about it. You can't even begin to get that close. Pull back at least a foot before you'll be able to focus on anything.
Click to expand...
It took me a few of those situations before I realized I needed to use this more like my 7D than D10 or SX230. But here's the difference, on my 7D I can't hit the Macro button and reduce my minimum focus distance at will.
Tom Hoots said:
So, it's not a bed of roses, folks. Like any other camera, it's some bunch of compromises, with some range of capabilities. But, at least at this point, I'd say it's got kind of "more compromises" and a more "limited range of capabilities" than you'll find in a lot of other cameras, whether they "compete" in the general segment, or not.

In the end, I'm a bit disappointed. But, that's just one day, and just a bit of shooting. I expect it'll be worth dragging around with me, as nothing here is a real "deal-killer." But it's just "frustrating" or "limited" at times, and I suppose it always will be.
Click to expand...
I understand why you feel that way. Coming from the direction of shooting the S95 and NEX-5 I don't know if you'd have to deal with some of the G1 X's idiosyncracies very often. I've had the opposite experience. The more I get used to it the more I treat it like the DSLR's I'm used to (10D, 30D, 7D), and the more I treat it in that manner the happier I am with its performance because my strategies are coming more into line with its capabilities. I'm not saying I'm getting used to dealing with its failures -- I'm correcting my preconceived notions to optimize the interraction between myself and the camera.
Tom Hoots said:
I'll process some pictures and post them in follow-up messages, and I'll think about some other things to say about it. If you have any questions, by all means ask them, and I'll see if I can give you a decent answer.
Click to expand...
I hope you only need an adjustement period to figure out how to best climb the learning curve. It is a new class of camera and I don't think anybody really knows what to expect from it, but if it doesn't meet your needs, it doesn't meet your needs.
 
Tom, Thanks for doing this. Your camera research over the years has always been helpful. I too tend to shoot jpeg so I find your shots informative.

One thing that jumps out from your first G1 X photos (and Marco's) is the color. I too prefer Canon color above all others. I'm sure you remember the frustration of getting greens and reds right with the Lx3. That was a good camera but those colors were annoying. Canon makes things so much simpler.

Hope you post more shots. Enjoy your new camera.
 
Hi everyone! I haven't been on dpreview so pardon me for the long absence. Just curious, where did you get the G1X? I've been on the pre-order list at B&H.

Thanks for sharing the information and the pics. They are very valuable information.
Voltaire
--
VY
 
Thanks for all your insights. However:

The last time I would first play with a camera would be at night.

I would have bought a G1X for its optical viewfinder. If I'm going to be composing by just the LCD, well, that opens up a ton more choices.

I use AEB all the time. Not in camera fusing of images, but taking three images at, say, -1.3/0/+1.3 and fusing them in Photomatix.

The first places I would have played with my wish-list G1X would have been downtown shooting buildings and people and alleys, then into a museum for low light really high ISO handheld shots (because I've blanketed the local museums with my D7000/D5100) and know the kind of IQ/noisefree images I'd be looking for.

I would treat it like a compact DSLR and expect it to handle the same. If it doesn't intuitively get the shot like I can with my Nikon DSLRs, what's the point, I'd just get an S100 and truly just use it as a point and shoot. Below ISO 800.
 
Insanely too big ??????? dude, you need to stay with tiny pocket cams then. Try the FF slrs..like the D700, D3, 5DII...and ...but apparently you are not living in the realm of slrs. Too bad. Many of us find this size thing not a problem but a delight...to have slr-c sensor images in such a small package !!
Tom Hoots said:
I'll flesh this out and post some photos in time, but let me just start with a few thoughts I've got after spending a day with the G1X:

I wasn't going to get it, I wasn't going to get it, I wasn't going to get it. But, after playing with it, all of the "It's too...." stuff turned out to be "It's not too...." It wasn't SO MUCH BIGGER than the G12 in real life than it looked in pictures. It wasn't that awful dog-slow shooting shot-to-shot. And so on. So, I bit on it.

I sure don't agree with any sense that it's "plasticky" -- it feels solid and metallic. But, it really is bigger than it ought to be. Sitting next to my S95, it's just insanely too big.

I think the image quality "remains to be seen" -- I've got more shooting to do. I shoot JPEG, and I think I agree with Marco Nero with the contrast +1 and saturation +1 -- I've got to do more playing with the sharpness to get a grip on that, though. But, so far, it does seem to be that typical "Canon color" with a big sensor in a "big compact" body.

I did some shooting with it and the S95 this afternoon, and one thing was more than abundantly clear: The S95's LCD screen was much, much, MUCH, MUCH brighter than the G1X's screen could ever DREAM of being. I thought everything looked absolutely dull and lifeless as I was shooting with the G1X, but that's pretty much the LCD it's got. It's like the G1X at maximum brightness was about equivalent to the S95 on its second step -- just dark, dark, dark.

In another thread I talked about AEB -- bracketing -- and I thought the shot-to-shot speed wasn't too bad. BUT. Holy stinking cow, just turn the "DR Correction" on, and IT SLOWS TO A CRAWL. During bracketing, with the image review turned on, so you can see the last shot on-screen, the screen actually goes black with a "Busy" message after each shot. ABYSMALLY slow. On that pesky little S95, you can turn that DR Correction on or off, and it doesn't make any difference in the shot-to-shot speed at all -- but it's just enormous in the G1X.

And I've already bumped into the "can't focus on anything even remotely 'close' at all" threshold, several times. Something like this (from my NEX-5 with its kit lens)?





Forget about it. You can't even begin to get that close. Pull back at least a foot before you'll be able to focus on anything.

So, it's not a bed of roses, folks. Like any other camera, it's some bunch of compromises, with some range of capabilities. But, at least at this point, I'd say it's got kind of "more compromises" and a more "limited range of capabilities" than you'll find in a lot of other cameras, whether they "compete" in the general segment, or not.

In the end, I'm a bit disappointed. But, that's just one day, and just a bit of shooting. I expect it'll be worth dragging around with me, as nothing here is a real "deal-killer." But it's just "frustrating" or "limited" at times, and I suppose it always will be.

I'll process some pictures and post them in follow-up messages, and I'll think about some other things to say about it. If you have any questions, by all means ask them, and I'll see if I can give you a decent answer.

Tom Hoots
http://thoots.zenfolio.com
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4330317199/albums
Click to expand...
 
Tom...

Might many fleeting photo opportunities might be missed compared to other $800 cameras because of its responsiveness issues?

AF etc...etc...
 
You bought an $800 camera to take P&S snapshots with? Maybe an S100 is more for you. And don't be upset when you didn't do research into the specifications. The specs will show minimum focusing distances for the G1 X. And remember the kit lens of a nex is 3x while the G1 X is a 4x zoom so it likely will have different characteristics including minimum focus distance aka maximum magnification.

Lastly I'm not sure why you needed to buy an $800 G1 X if you already had a nex? Gadget junkie who likes new tech toys?
 
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