Kit lens or 18-200mm (7d)

Hello

I am getting ready to buy a 7D as my first SLR camera. I am considering buying the body of the camera without the lens kit and getting an 18-200mm and along with the 50mm f/1.8 lenses instead. I thought it would be better choice than going with the kits lens which I will most likely start to replace when the opportunity arises. I am no pro and this being my first SLR I do not have any lenses. Are there better lenses I should consider buying (no L series, I can't justify the cost being that I just learning)? Any input would be great.

18-200mm is 60D's kit lens. At least for the kit I bought last week.
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TheVancouverGuy

The choices for the kit I am looking at on Amazaon are:

28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM or

18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS UD

I simply don't want to spend money on something I will only use for a short time. Perhaps it would be more logical to choose one from above, and then add a second one to it...

Perhaps a 15-85mm instead of 18-200mm and 50mm 1.8. Or a Tamron 17-50mm and a Tamron 70-300mm USD.
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TheVancouverGuy

It came with my 50D as its kit lens.

Check here for a report on the 18-200:
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/400-canon_18200_3556is

and here for a report on the 15-85, which I recommend as a first lens:
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/465-canon_1585_3556is

The software that comes with the 7D (DPP) can correct either lens for distortion, vignetting and chromatic aberration. After these corrections the 18-200 will give you a halfway decent result, while the same corrections make the images of the 15-85 look stunning.

Let me get this straight. You are buying the most expensive, complicated, and professional APS-C DSLR anybody makes and you are asking us which cheapie lenses you should buy to use with it?

First of all the cheapest camera with the best lenses will always produce better output than the best camera with inferior lenses, assuming the same skill by the user. A 7D with an 18-200 will not give as good a product as a T3i with a 70-200/4. And the second would cost you less. I don't want you to be in that group that buys a 7D then ends up selling it to buy a T3i because they are not ready to use that level of required skill.

I have been shooting SLRs and DSLRs for 45 years and when I decided to upgrade my last Canon body even I did not opt for the 7D. The T2i, T3i, 60D and 7D have the same sensor, which means if used properly with the same lens the pictures will be the same. The advantage of the 7D is not in the pictures themselves but in ability to get shots under specialized conditions that the others might not be able to get. Such as action shots where its quicker AF and faster frame rate can help a lot. But once you start shooting normal subjects the advantages pretty much dry up.

Buying a 7D as a first DSLR is like buying a Ferrari right after you get your drivers license and saying "I'll learn as I go" when you have not even driven a manaul trans before. Yeah you will learn your way right into the morgue (I used to be a HP driving instructor).

Get a cheaper model that will enable you to have the money to buy better lenses, then after you have learned something if you NEED a 7D, bingo, you already have the good lenses you just need to get the body and sell your old one.
Kent Gittings

You need to define the objectives. I have the 18-200mm EF-S IS on the 50D. If you stop down a bit you can get satisfactory sharpness providing you dont't crop more than 25% and you are willing to apply some sharpness in RAW PP (as with the included and updated Canon DPP editor - get updates from the Canon product page for the camera) and unsharp masking in the photo editor of your choice. This lens will not AF on a teleconverter. note that should you ever go to a full frame camera EF-S lenses will not cover the full frame sensor.

This is a very wide zoom range and compromises need to be made. It is a 35mm equivalent of about 28 - 320mm on the 70D crop sensor which has a 1.6 multiplier for effective focal length compared to a full frame camera.

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/400-canon_18200_3556is

is one older review based on the Canon 50D 15 MPxl sensor.

http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos is the index of these older review for the 15MPxl crop sensor and shows both EF-S and EF lenses of several manufacturers on this sensor. Your 7D has 18 MPxl. Technical details regarding vignetting and resolution are here in this review: http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/400-canon_18200_3556is?start=1

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/canon_18-200_3p5-5p6_is_c16/ is a more recent review here on dpreview with the tech details at:
http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/canon_18-200_3p5-5p6_is_c16/page3.asp

At 50mm this lens performs quite well if you can stop down a bit so you may not require a dedicated 50mm.

The Tamron series are also good zooms in general and can be reviewed here and on other sites.

If you need better IQ then you should consider a set of two zooms splitting the range you need between them as suggested in another reply.

Some zooms offer a longer range yet such as 18-270 but that is a very extreme range to get quality across the full range.

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron_18-270_3p5-6p3_vc_n15/ is a review of this lens. http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/tamron_18-270_3p5-6p3_vc_n15/page3.asp is the page of interest here.

Note because of physical structure some lenses will not perform with a TC because of mounting interference. Depending on the aperture you might lose AF speed or it may not work at all.

For my hobby I use the 18-200 keeping in mind DOF and f/stop reduction quality improvements and then after two years acquired a 300mm IS f/4 prime and the TCIII 1.4x. Nature photography is my interest in particular. From my 35mm days I have a Tamron 28-200 zoom that works that I like because it has a focus ring with distance markings. This lets me easily set up a hyperfocal DOF range for night scenes of near field to infinity. I also can use this with my older Lenco extension tubes for macro work. The newer Lenco tubes are made for digital cameras.

You might consider starting with the Canon 18-200 and then later acquiring a 70-200 zoom if you need better IQ in this range or 100-400L EF IS, or a 300 L prime EF IS f/4 plus the TCIII 1.4 (about $2,000 US for the 300 TCII1.4 combo) which gives you a step to high IQ 300mm (480 FF equivalent) 420 with TC (672 FF equivalent) depending on your wallet conditions.

You need to set what kind of venue your goal is to determine your equipment range and quality needs to set up your spending plan.

Another review site is:
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/index.html

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Ron Ginsberg
Minneapolis, MN
Land of 10,000 Puddles

I bought a 7D just before Christmas. Everyone I spoke to suggested I get the kit with the 15-85, which I did and I am really enjoying it.

I don't know anything about the 18-200, but I tried the 18-135 (another kit option) and its fairly average when compared to the 15-85.

Good luck.

hmm.. I opted for the 7d because the price difference is only 200.00 (from teh 60D) right now with a 100.00 off at check out. While I do understand that lenses have a larger impact on the over IQ, I figured that 200.00 more was worth the extra cost. Being that you have been doing this for over 45 years, I am sure you have a lot more knowledge than I do in the matter. From my reading I understand that it is the person who taking the actual photo that affects the picture outcome with greater impact. I understand that the best camera with an inexperienced shooter will not produce a great picture (or even a good picture for that matter). I would assume the same can be applied to lenses. With that being said, I realize that no one comes into this with infinite amounts of cash to buy everything at grade A right off the bat, but I do agree with you in that it is much better have one good lens than it would be five crappy ones (for lack of a better term). I think that 15-85 is going to the wiser choice at this point.

The 15-85 is a really good lens. It is versatile, light weight and gives nice crisp images. You will want a flash for low light situations but it is a fantastic choice for a first lens. The 7D is a LOT of camera. You never quite realize how many decisions the point and shoots make for you until you buy a DSLR. The green mode will take an okay photo but to get a great photo you have to be willing to invest a lot of time and effort into learning the camera. There are days I jump for joy and days I want to bang my head against the wall. The 7D's complicated focusing options can be a blessing or a curse depending on how you have the camera set for the situation you are in. Invest in a good book! You will spend a lot of time reading it

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I think that 15-85 is going to the wiser choice at this point.

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Yup, no question about it. Getting the 15-85 would be the best move you could make. The 18-200 is at best a compromise. It's very convenient because of it's range, but it get that at the expense of image quality. The 15-85 has no such compromises and is one of the best general purpose walk around lenses that Canon offers with terrific image quality. It's also a lens that you won't necessarily have to replace over time. And the other comments about not buying a crummy lens to complement a great camera are dead on. Better to invest in something that will allow the camera to deliver the best possible image and also something you won't have to turn around and replace. Over time, as your skills and budget improves, you can consider getting a longer lens, such as the 70-200. However, the 15-85 will keep you plenty busy in the meantime.

Best of luck and happy shooting with your new toy.

Thanks! I bought the Dummies book for the 7D and have been reading up on it for a few weeks now. I will defiantly go with the 15-85 for the time being. Is there another book you would suggest reading ? Thanks!

KentG said:

Buying a 7D as a first DSLR is like buying a Ferrari right after you get your drivers license and saying "I'll learn as I go" when you have not even driven a manaul trans before. Yeah you will learn your way right into the morgue (I used to be a HP driving instructor).

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It is more complicated. Whereas it is of course a waste not to use all the features of the 7D to its full extent, even for a beginner it still may be easier to take good pictures with it than with smaller models due to operation and handling. The most important factor here is viewfinder size. The larger finder of the 7D compared to entry models may make creative framing - essential for quality photography - a lot easier, particularly for users with poorer eye-sight. This can only be judged by experience. I would encourage the OP to go into the shop to trry whether he can live with the small finders of entry cameras and how each camera feels. DSLR by, after all, is also a highly emotive issue....

That being said, everything else you mention about the priority of lenses over the camera body is spot on...I had my bad experiences with superzoom lenses....
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Chris
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http://christopher363.redbubble.com
http://www.whitewall.com/christopher

As a matter of finance, It is better to start with and to hold on to a very good body and upgrade lenses as you can afford to. It is the body functionality and quality that is a static choice over a long time period. Lenses can come and go as finances permit.

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Ron Ginsberg
Minneapolis, MN
Land of 10,000 Puddles

Do u really need a 7D?

Even a 600D or 60D are very good cameras for a starter. U can buy a 7D but atleast start with 15-85 or sigma 17-50 mm. Its not wise to buy a 7D & use a mediocre lens on it.

If u dont shoot birds or sports, then even a 600D wud be a very good camera to start with. You can use the money saved to buy good lenses.