How come Canon is always behind Nikon?

I dunno. I went for Canon when I went digital even though I had preferred Nikon for years in film because the sensors in the early Nikons were pretty sub par. Recently I was looking at replacing my DSLR and really wanted to go back to Nikon but I still don't feel the Nikon is there yet.

When a Nikon user I used to look down my nose at Canon a bit and even now I feel a bit of a traitor but Nikon hasn't quite earned me back yet. Plus the IDE in some of the models I looked at are a bit too, well, bubble gum for me. They are nice to hold though but that sensor, not yet.

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

I recently check the "Canon Rumours" site and it says Canon just had their patent right approved for their Large Back Illuminated Sensor (APS-C & FF).

I was like, "Hey, wait a minute...this back illuminated thing has been used all along in the Nikon...why only now for Canon??"

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There must be something different going on in the Canon version for a patent to be approved don't you think?

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

There are other things too which Canon seem to lag behind but catch up later, frm what i read...is this somesort of Canon culture or marketing trick or what??

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You could say that of any brand really. The features you prioritize in your preferred brand could lead you to think that another is lagging because they don't have those features.
--

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.
...oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.

The D7000 is ahead of the 60D...but they are not always ahead/behind.

Yeah, they are always alternating in the lead in complex ways. It's what competition is all about. I've got to admit I'm getting pretty jaded trying to keep up and new (apparent) innovations don't thrill me as they used to. Get the basics close to right and I'm a happy snapper these days. (It's never really quite right in a single camera for every individual.) Besides I am still bearing a grudge for the loss of good manual focus support in the digital age but that's a whole other tangent they are all guilty of.

Oh and I hate the G1x, just hate it. There I was happy with my G10 and a nice new DSLR. All covered and ready to get back to shooting and wham, they hit me with another problem solver. 14MP at last with lower noise (the G10 can be a sand pit sometimes) and larger sensor in a replacement for my everyday portable. Swines!

But it only has 4x zoom. (Maniacal laugh.) See, not so perfect now eh? (swines)

jonrobertp said:

The D7000 is ahead of the 60D...but they are not always ahead/behind.
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Click to expand...

--

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.
...oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.

Hi all,

Well thanks again everyone...its true most companies will do the same thing..just have to learn to understand and appreciate the stuff we have..

Maybe we should consider this thread closed....i think i understand the whole thing better now...and have learnt how to see the difference in a healthier way.

Thanks all...pls consider this thread closed. Cheers! ^0^

The reason Canon is always "behind Nikon" is simple...

somebody has to push Nikon; screaming and kicking, into the future.

--
Photons by the bag.
Gravitons no longer shipped outside US or Canada



-----.....------

if I mock you, it may be well deserved.

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

Hi all,

Well thanks again everyone...its true most companies will do the same thing..just have to learn to understand and appreciate the stuff we have..

Maybe we should consider this thread closed....i think i understand the whole thing better now...and have learnt how to see the difference in a healthier way.

Thanks all...pls consider this thread closed. Cheers! ^0^

Click to expand...

Nice try but that's not how it works New Guy. We haven't had the screaming, kicking, shouting and general variations of atomic wedgies of the die hard Canon and Nikon fanatics arguing that their tripod hole is by far the superior colour..yet.

The internut lives on even as you sleep.

--

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.
...oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.

Roger99 said:

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

Hi all,

Well thanks again everyone...its true most companies will do the same thing..just have to learn to understand and appreciate the stuff we have..

Maybe we should consider this thread closed....i think i understand the whole thing better now...and have learnt how to see the difference in a healthier way.

Thanks all...pls consider this thread closed. Cheers! ^0^

Click to expand...

Nice try but that's not how it works New Guy. We haven't had the screaming, kicking, shouting and general variations of atomic wedgies of the die hard Canon and Nikon fanatics arguing that their tripod hole is by far the superior colour..yet.

The internut lives on even as you sleep.

--

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.
...oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.

Click to expand...

Yeah lol...anyway, i'm not searching for all those ruckus really..but if others deisre to fan it into a firestorm, well, be my guest...it's up to them really. For me, the discussion thus far has been more than eye-opening and educating for a novice like me. ^0^

jonikon said:

As the long time leader in camera sales, Canon has grown complacent. I was really surprised to see Nikon introduce a cutting edge innovative mirrorless camera system before Canon did. All Canon has in response to the Nikon System 1 cameras is a staid fixed lens up-sized P&S camera, they call the G1-X. Pitiful.

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The G1-X has a much larger sensor in a body which is comparable in size. If interchangeable lenses is a priority, I do not see why would anybody get the Nikon 1 instead of a NEX system.

Sorry, but I Could not resist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLgV4yCLUg

I am sure Nikon is a great DSLR system - no offence just a big grin!

However, Canon L Glass is the best in the world. PERIOD. And great GLASS makes great DSLR's even better!
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5D MK-II, 30D, 7D, Sony DSC F828, Fuji F31fd, 430EX,580EX, 580EXII, Canon EF-S 10-22, 17-40 L, 24-105 IS L, 70-200 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8 USM IS II, EF 28-300 L IS, EF 300mm F/2.8 IS USM II, Extenders 1.4 & 2x III, 44" Canon iPF-8300 Photo Printer

In its first 12 years of existence (1935-47), Canon (Kwanon then) used Nikon-made Nikkor lenses since Nikon had been a leading optics manufacturer in Japan since 1917. When Nikon decided to make its own camera bodies in 1948, they stopped supplying Nikkor lenses to Canon.

In 1959, Nikon came out with the Nikon F, the first 35mm film SLR system that professionals embraced so that the SLR replaced the rangefinder, Twin-Lens Reflex, and other camera systems starting in the 1960's. The original 35mm film SLRs by Ihagee (Exacta and the smaller Exa which my late father had and which I still have but sadly flood-damaged) never gained mass following due to their relatively awkward system plus the communist takeover of East Germany forced them to stopped production in the 1950's. My father's Exa was one of the last produced.

Canon also introduced their own 35mm SLR system in 1959 but unlike Nikon's F system, Canon's version flopped which is why during the film era, Nikon led in sales among professionals. When digital came, that was when Canon grabbed the lead since Nikon was too complacent in their leadership in film. When Nikon did enter digital however, they retained backward lens compatibility by retaining the F mount which is why my manual AI-S 50 mm f/1.4 is still usable on my D7000 aside from the FM2n it originally came with. Nikon struck back with sensors designed by them and fabricated by Sony that had better dynamic range and ISO performance than Canon's in-house sensors.

So in summary, it's always a game of leapfrog with the fellow behind at the moment coming up with something to overtake the current leader's products.

gerry328 said:

Nikon struck back with sensors designed by them and fabricated by Sony that had better dynamic range and ISO performance than Canon's in-house sensors.

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This happened only in the last few years. Before Sony started making CMOS sensors, Nikon/Sony/Pentax sensors were behind Canon, way, way, way behind.

And let me reiterate this (mostly for OP and those who believe his nonsense): which Nikon/Sony/Pentax APS-C or FF camera uses back-illuminated CMOS sensors?

Answer: zip, zilch, nada

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

Er, pardon my ignorance (...well i'm just learning, that is ), i thought APS-C is already considered a large sensor...ie. a crop of the full frame and not a compact camera sensor?? Maybe i'm wrong...i dunno..i'll have to read up some more X-P

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You seem to have a serious language problem.

There is NOT a single Sony/Nikon/Pentax APS-C or FF camera that uses back-illuminated CMOS sensors. NONE! Sony only makes back-illuminated sensors for camera phones and compact cameras.

That's why this patent makes sense.

Techblast said:

However, Canon L Glass is the best in the world. PERIOD. And great GLASS makes great DSLR's even better!

Click to expand...

Some of it is good....some of it is even class leading but not many would call the 50mm f1.2L the best 50 and the 85mm f1.2L has only just caught up optically with lenses that were available 25+ years ago.

My only point being that you just shouldn't make blanket statements like the one you did above because there's always exceptions.
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Zooms? pfffft!

sir_bazz said:

Techblast said:

However, Canon L Glass is the best in the world. PERIOD. And great GLASS makes great DSLR's even better!

Click to expand...

Some of it is good....some of it is even class leading but not many would call the 50mm f1.2L the best 50 and the 85mm f1.2L has only just caught up optically with lenses that were available 25+ years ago.

My only point being that you just shouldn't make blanket statements like the one you did above because there's always exceptions.
--
Zooms? pfffft!

Click to expand...

Agreed, there is some very good Canon glass out there, but there is also some superb Nikon glass that has no rival. The 14-24mm 2.8 springs to mind.

--
Read about the life of an expat in the former Soviet Union
http://www.expatfsu.blogspot.com

'Travel is the antidote to racism, bigotry and prejudice' Mark Twain

OK. I stand corrected. Seriously, Nikon is a fantastic camera. Years ago, I only dreamed of owning the status symbol of 35mm film camera's. Back then I did not have the money and so Olympus, Fujica, Konica, Pentax was what I owned.

Perhaps I should have said "Best Glass in my world." No doubt Nikon has produced some extremely incredible glass. I would LOVE for Canon to duplicate the quality of the Nikon 14-24mm. Even the 16-35mm II is not as sharp.

If Canon remakes any lens, I would love to see a F/2.8 EF 24-105MM L IS II. Out of all my glass, this one seems to be the most comon carry lens for me. The 28mm-300mm L IS is not bad, and I do use it some, but not like the smaller f/4 EF 24-105. This lens would be a HUGE sellers for Canon if they would simply bring it to market as a faster and optically superior "II" class lens.
--

5D MK-II, 30D, 7D, Sony DSC F828, Fuji F31fd, 430EX,580EX, 580EXII, Canon EF-S 10-22, 17-40 L, 24-105 IS L, 70-200 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8 USM IS II, EF 28-300 L IS, EF 300mm F/2.8 IS USM II, Extenders 1.4 & 2x III, 44" Canon iPF-8300 Photo Printer

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

Roger99 said:

New Guy Wanna Learn said:

Hi all,

Well thanks again everyone...its true most companies will do the same thing..just have to learn to understand and appreciate the stuff we have..

Maybe we should consider this thread closed....i think i understand the whole thing better now...and have learnt how to see the difference in a healthier way.

Thanks all...pls consider this thread closed. Cheers! ^0^

Click to expand...

Nice try but that's not how it works New Guy. We haven't had the screaming, kicking, shouting and general variations of atomic wedgies of the die hard Canon and Nikon fanatics arguing that their tripod hole is by far the superior colour..yet.

The internut lives on even as you sleep.

--

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.
...oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.

Click to expand...

Yeah lol...anyway, i'm not searching for all those ruckus really..but if others deisre to fan it into a firestorm, well, be my guest...it's up to them really. For me, the discussion thus far has been more than eye-opening and educating for a novice like me. ^0^

Click to expand...

Neither was I. I was a nice guy once. Friendly, flexible, nice to old women. I just wanted to know about a lens cap. Just a simple question it was but that is so long ago now.... Then they came after me. I found myself having arguments and being insulting without even knowing I was doing it. I found out I was a dumb leftie, socialist, commie plotting to take down the world. I didn't know, I DIDN'T KNOW.

RUN, RUN NOW, they have smelt the fresh meat of you. You will become one of us drooling in the corner, biting the heads off Republicans for so little sustenance.

Run, the insidious process has begun but it is not too late to ruuuuun. uhahahaHUHAHAH!!!! :|

--

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without necessarily accepting it. -Aristotle

The one serious conviction one should hold is that nothing should be taken too seriously.
...oh, and I see by the lack of responses that I am right yet again.

.......BBRRAAAAAIIIINNNNSSSSSSsssssss!!!!!!!........ :x

mmm... fresh meat!

photo nuts said:

gerry328 said:

Nikon struck back with sensors designed by them and fabricated by Sony that had better dynamic range and ISO performance than Canon's in-house sensors.

Click to expand...

This happened only in the last few years. Before Sony started making CMOS sensors, Nikon/Sony/Pentax sensors were behind Canon, way, way, way behind.

And let me reiterate this (mostly for OP and those who believe his nonsense): which Nikon/Sony/Pentax APS-C or FF camera uses back-illuminated CMOS sensors?

Answer: zip, zilch, nada

Click to expand...

Hi there photo nuts, you know what? You are RIGHT ON THE SPOT in saying there is IS NOT a single APS-C or FF camera that uses back-illuminated sensor yet. So, yep..what i did believe in and mention earlier is now indeed nothing more than just...nonsense.

After reading up more on sensors and the different make from major companies, it's true only small cameras have that technology, and that would make the patent right thing by Canon all too logical indeed.

Good job in pointing out my mistake. A lot of misunderstanding has been resolved thru you...thanks bunches! ^0^